Loan to friend

LegacyUser

Four years ago I loaned just under €13,000 to my best friends girlfriend after his request.
He agreed that I would be paid back in one year. So far I've received under €2000 back and I was recently informed that I will not be repaid for at least three more years, due to a number of courses that she wants to take, that are very costly and need to be completed before she is too old. Over the four years I have received several excuses for non payment of the loan including medical issues, which I believe to be true, however several thousand was spent about a year ago on an excursion to the USA. I did not ask for any interest or collateral for the loan as I trusted my friend that it would be repayed within the year. The combined income of both my friend and his GF is roughly €2800 per month and their plan is to put all this into her courses. I value my friendship but also want the loan repaid asap. Does anyone have advise or experience with a similar issue?

Tokyo

Do you have anything in writing?

To be honest , your friend and his partner are taking the piss - they've turned a one year loan of a substantial sum of money into four, and are not asking you, but TELLING you that it will be another three years before they'll repay you. Friends don't borrow sums of money like that, and then head off on holidays rather than making an effort to repay something - your good nature is being seriously taken advantage of here.

Tell your friend that he's had more than enough time to repay, and that you want either the lump sum, or a repayment schedule established immediately. If he doesn't agree, contact a solicitor immediately.

CaraMay

He is not a friend. A friend wouldn't let you swing for 11k. Tell him you want 1k per month til the debt is repaid and if they miss one payment you will register a judgement agAinst them. They are taking the mick big time

dixiefly

I agree with Mike. You really need to put your foot down, difficult as that may be. Tell him that you need it for a car / house/ member of your family and give them 1 month to return it. If that is their combined income then they can borrow from the bank or member of her own family.

Do you remember the Shakespeare quote in Hamlet...."Neither a borrower nor a lender be,For loan oft loses both itself and friend,And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry" ?

professore

If you have nothing in writing you'll have to chalk it down to experience I'm afraid.

LegacyUser

mike_ie wrote: »

Do you have anything in writing?

To be honest , your friend and his partner are taking the piss - they've turned a one year loan of a substantial sum of money into four, and are not asking you, but TELLING you that it will be another three years before they'll repay you. Friends don't borrow sums of money like that, and then head off on holidays rather than making an effort to repay something - your good nature is being seriously taken advantage of here.

Tell your friend that he's had more than enough time to repay, and that you want either the lump sum, or a repayment schedule established immediately. If he doesn't agree, contact a solicitor immediately.

I have transcripts of conversations and some e-mails. I think my friend genuinely want' s me to be repaid, but his GF seems to have full control of his earnings.

CaraMay

You are being naive. You are going to have to go legal.

LegacyUser

Would a debt collection agency work out cheaper and faster than a solicitor?

Tokyo

You still need to establish your legal position in all of this. Only a solicitor can advise you with that.

Tintin8

If your so called friend cared that you needed it back now he'd get it somewhere . Why can't he get it off the credit union for you ? He's a d1ckhead in my opinion and I know id never give ANYONE a lend if €13,000 EVER!
Let them go to the bank.

CollyFlower

That's a lot of money to lose, if you don't have anything in writing, there's not much you can do.... I wouldn't let it go through.

LegacyUser

betrayed wrote: »

I have transcripts of conversations and some e-mails. I think my friend genuinely want' s me to be repaid, but his GF seems to have full control of his earnings.

OP that's not a contract, just a collection of emails and transcripts....seriously you need to speak to someone on were you legally stand on this. Without a contract signed by this girl you may end up writing off this money. I've been in similar situation though never that amount of money. I did work for friends, didn't sign a contract cus I thought it's friends I can trust them and I was shafted for a couple of grand. When it comes to money it's always better to keep everything above board and in writing cus even family will turn on each other over money.

MagicMarker

You gave 13k to a couple who have a combined income of 2800 per month?

No offence op, but you were asking to be ripped off here.

Taco Chips

They're taking the piss op and not real friends.

I was in a spot of bother last year and needed to bother around €2k from a friend. I told them at the time I wouldn't be able to repay it all in one go and would do my very best to make sure it was given back as soon as possible. They very kindly agreed to this and gave me the help I needed. It took me a couple of months to pay back everything, in that intervening time I gave as much as I could whenever I could back to them. I literally felt sick at the thought of owing a friend money like that and couldn't bear to think that I was inconveniencing them or leaving them short. They were very understanding and the amount is not that large in the scheme of things but I couldn't stand the thought that they were down that money because of me, even though they had offered in the first place. Friends don't take the piss out of friends by behaving like those in the OP. They should be making it their business to repay every penny they can in the shortest time frame possible.

itsnotmyname

" NEITHER A LENDER NOR BORROWER, BE "....

These were the, often repeated, words of wisdom, from my dearly departed mother . .....
Advice to live by .....:D

DoYouEvenLift

Never loan money to family or friends unless you're in the position to not need it back and can basically give it as a gift. Sad to say but lots of people will show their true colours when it comes to getting loans from people close to them. I don't understand how someone could be that much of a kunt to have you show how close a friend you considered him to be by loaning him such a large sum only to have him fuk you around in return.

Don't waste any more time and get legal help and confront them. Fuking scumbags in this world man, Jesus.

iusedtoknow

I think demanding 1000 a month is a bit heavy, maybe try and work out a repayment plan of x amount (say 500 or even 250). This will test their resolve to repay it. If they agree to x amount, keep them to it.

If they are unable to do so, inform them that you will be adding on interest to the repayment when the time comes, as this has gone on too long. If they think it is unfair, tell them that they aren't the only ones that change the terms of the loan.

I have helped friends out in the past, but it was never for more than 500 and it was clearly stated when it was to be repayed. I was obviously happy to help out when I could, but 500 kept it manageable for everyone.

Barely There

iusedtoknow wrote: »

I think demanding 1000 a month is a bit heavy, maybe try and work out a repayment plan of x amount (say 500 or even 250).

At €250 a month, the outstanding loan will take over 3.5 years to pay back, which is longer than the couple are suggesting right now - so I wouldn't suggest this as a solution OP.

Teyla Emmagan

That's terrible OP, I feel so bad for you. If it's money she wants for courses does that mean a large lump of it is in the bank somewhere? I would demand anything left of the lump sum back immediately and a payment schedule in place for the rest of it. If she wants to do courses let her go to the credit union! Why should you be on the hock for years? This woman is robbing you and your "friend" is aiding and abetting her.

Gannicus

professore wrote: »

If you have nothing in writing you'll have to chalk it down to experience I'm afraid.

Sadly the professore is right. If there is nothing in writing legal action is most likely going to be a losing battle. They clearly aren't very considerate friends to be running rings around you like this.

If you want to cover yourself going forward sit them down talk to them and draw up something to have them acknowledge that they owe you such a large amount of money its pretty much the only way you'll have any legal recourse.

In this have them agree to a payment plan, one that includes a set amount and frequency of each payment (eg €500 due 14th each month). Also have a witness present and maybe have them sign the agreement to state they were present at the time. Get your "friend" and his partner to sign it so that if the relationship goes south you can still take action towards getting your money back.
(I can't stress enough how important it is that you get the two of them to acknowledge that as a couple they borrowed the money, every document you draw up makes it perfectly clear the two of them are in this not just one)


I feel for you O/P. I was in a similar situation years ago where a friend borrowed money to buy a car. Turns out he used the money to start buying and selling cars. He still owed me €1,500 out of the €2,000 he borrowed but just wasn't paying me. He kept claiming he was broke but would pay €20 to play in poker tournaments each week and go on the tear with the lads etc.

Luckily for me he's not the most savvy person so I managed to threaten him with legal action (had he called my bluff I'd have been screwed) and make it look elaborate enough that I would end up getting more than the €1,500 he owed me so he believed I was really looking into it. He paid me but he caused the friendship to suffer severely. We run in the same social circles and we are civil but I don't like the bloke anymore with all he put me through.

Big Bag of Chips

DoYouEvenLift: Tone down the language.

kylith

Gather up what correspondence you have in relation to the loan and get legal advice as emails where he acknowledges that you gave him money and in which he acknowledges that you will be paid back may constitute a contract of sorts. In the meantime tell your friend that the loan has already gone over the agreed date by which it would be paid back and that you now need the money back urgently. Try to work out a payment plan before you get a solicitor involved, but have a solicitor's advice to back you up should you need it. You don't need to give him any reason for why you want it back, his girlfriend's courses and college plans are not your concern, just tell him that you need your money back.

Unfortunately I have experience with people who spin out loans and have learned (thankfully not from my own experience) to never loan more than I can afford to write off, or to get a contract and payment plan in writing.

Dixie Chick

Hi OP.

Sounds as though you speak only with your friend about this and not the gf? Would that be right? If so, maybe set up to call and speak to them both about it and just explain that its gone on too long now, you are worried you will not be repaid and can ye sort out a compromised plan between the three of ye

Big Bag of Chips

What, if anything have you said to them about it up to this point? Have you given them any indication that you want it back sooner? I'm not defending them in the least - I hate even owing someone a tenner! I'd be in a panic making sure I got it back to them - but if you are not making it clear to them that you want/need it back, then they are going to think you are ok with them putting it off for another bit.

Dealing with money is very difficult. And it's funny that it's your money, yet you feel awkward asking for it!

I think you now have to be direct with them. You have to tell them you need it back, or you need at least regular and reasonable repayments. Honestly, as someone else already mentioned, her courses or her age are not your concern. They need to learn to live with their means. 4 years ago you loaned the money, what was it for at that stage? Did she do courses back then? How many more courses is she planning on doing? Is she ever going to get a job so that she can repay the money?

I'm asking those questions, but really it's all irrelevant. All that matters is they need to start paying you back. Either in a lump sum from taking out a real loan, or in installments that actually make a dent in the amount. Not 20 quid here and there.

Gannicus

No to detract from the issue at hand but I hope it serves as a warning to others that if lending money to family or friends a written agreement is in place. Like so many others have been burned by this occurence.

I do hope it all works out O/P.

LegacyUser

betrayed wrote: »

Four years ago I loaned just under €13,000 to my best friends girlfriend after his request.
He agreed that I would be paid back in one year. So far I've received under €2000 back and I was recently informed that I will not be repaid for at least three more years, due to a number of courses that she wants to take, that are very costly and need to be completed before she is too old. Over the four years I have received several excuses for non payment of the loan including medical issues, which I believe to be true, however several thousand was spent about a year ago on an excursion to the USA. I did not ask for any interest or collateral for the loan as I trusted my friend that it would be repayed within the year. The combined income of both my friend and his GF is roughly €2800 per month and their plan is to put all this into her courses. I value my friendship but also want the loan repaid asap. Does anyone have advise or experience with a similar issue?

Do you have lots of money that you ended up doing this? Best friends girlfriend!! thats crazy OP, with the way relationships work out there is no way I would be lending money to somebody elses girlfriend. How come they couldn't get a loan from the bank or credit union?

Did you not think it was odd they were asking you for a loan as opposed to going to a bank? Enough pussy footing around you need to go a solicitor about this immediately

gormdubhgorm

It was no where near the amount of money lended by the OP. But I lended a friend a decent amount of money years ago before the euro to a person who was badly stuck at the time.
From the very start it seemed he had no intention of paying me back while going out enjoying himself.

It was not the amount of money that annoyed me just the principle of the thing.
You try and help someone and they treat you like a soft touch.

I hope you get legal advice OP and get your money back. I could be difficult since you have no written contract with them. The people that have your money will probably try and claim it was a gift.

It really annoys me that people have no decency and are so greedy. Your probably a bit of an eejit to give 13k to your best friends girlfriend at the same time though.

I assume there are some sort of "debt collection agencies" that will deal with issues like this if the straightforward legal route does not work.

Rubberchikken

talk to a solicitor. maybe some legal arrangement could be drawn up, and it would show this GF that you are serious. while your mate might mean well if she is controlling his income, which sounds odd, you may never see it.

you were a very good friend to lend this amount interest free, it's seems these two don't have your standards.

good luck

LegacyUser

Rubberchikken wrote: »

talk to a solicitor. maybe some legal arrangement could be drawn up, and it would show this GF that you are serious. while your mate might mean well if she is controlling his income, which sounds odd, you may never see it.

+1 OP advice and get something in writing and signed by them asap. You need something in writing because what happens if tomorrow they break up and she just walks away? Are you going to go after your friend or her for your money? I know it sucks to have to ask friends to repay loans, I've been there and your always made to fill like the villain when it's your money.

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice. I have been asking for repayment on an ongoing basis for the past four years. There have been a few different repayment plans and all of them have fallen apart after a few months, resulting in me only getting €1950 back in total. I have expressed my extreme anger and that I expect to be paid back, but it is not getting through.

Tokyo

betrayed wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the replies and advice. I have been asking for repayment on an ongoing basis for the past four years. There have been a few different repayment plans and all of them have fallen apart after a few months, resulting in me only getting €1950 back in total. I have expressed my extreme anger and that I expect to be paid back, but it is not getting through.

Honestly, it sounds like you have exhausted all of the nice approaches, and have had it thrown back in your face. If I were in your situation, I'd inform them that they had given me no choice but to contact a solicitor (one final shot across the bow), and then follow through on it.

Cunning Stunt

why are you only talking to your friend about this? You should tackle his girlfriend aswell. She probably finds it far too easy to ignore the issue when she is hiding behind her boyfriend.

Please do look into getting legal advice. If you do have witnesses, or an email trail and transaction evidence of the bit of money that they did pay you back, maybe that's a start to building a case.

What I would do:

1. As others have said, it was an unwise move to begin with.

2. It's worth considering why they wouldn't/couldn't get a traditional type of loan (i.e. from a financial institution). They were obviously aware they were going to default in one way or another, be it not paying in time or not paying at all.

3. Get in touch in some sort of recordable way, and have a friendly chat where you ask for an update on how soon/how much they can pay at the moment.

4. When that inevitably goes downhill, contact a solicitor. With your recorded proof that there was an agreed loan.

5. Regardless of what the solicitor says, tell them you've seen a solicitor, and that you want the money back. That you're willing to deal with this in an informal way but that they'll have to pull their socks up right NOW. That if they don't keep up with this, you'll be taking them to court for the amount they owe + interest for the time after the agreed deadline.

LegacyUser

I am putting together a case over the next few days before I visit the solicitor. I will be having a formal conversation with them both afterwards letting them know that I'm sick of their crap and will be repaid either by court order, debt collector or directly by them.

Jenneke87

betrayed wrote: »

I am putting together a case over the next few days before I visit the solicitor. I will be having a formal conversation with them both afterwards letting them know that I'm sick of their crap and will be repaid either by court order, debt collector or directly by them.

I hope it's gonna work out, 13.000 is a lot of money to be owed and they are behaving very poorly not paying it back.

Gannicus

betrayed wrote: »

I am putting together a case over the next few days before I visit the solicitor. I will be having a formal conversation with them both afterwards letting them know that I'm sick of their crap and will be repaid either by court order, debt collector or directly by them.

I would avoid telling them you're looking into Solicitors, Debt Collectors, etc. straight off the bat. They'll get defensive and angry even though they are 100% in the wrong.

I would consult a solicitor and say nothing to them and see where you stand and what your options are going forward. The Irish courts don't like to get involved in money disputes between friends and/or family when nothing has been put in writing between them.

When that's done I would ask to speak to them together and tell them that you would like the two of them to either:
1. Sign something to acknowledge that they owe you however much left there is on the debt
or
2. Ask them to sign a document stating the frequency of payments and a set payment amount (eg €400-€500 a month that way its paid off in around 2 years)

At least then if & when they start to mess you around again you have some legal recourse. Also be prepared, this won't be a small claims court appearance their max limit is approx €2000. This may be a district court issue (max reward in district court is €15,000), so you may need to look into recouping the money you'll spend on legal fees etc too, as a result of taking the court route. I'm not trying to ward you off the legal side of things just wanna give you a reasonable perspective of it all. I hope it all goes well for you O/P and you get what you are owed by these people.

My last bit of advice would be, when this is all over I would cut ties with them, they clearly don't respect your friendship and good nature and help if they are dropping a few grand to go to the U.S. and not pay you back first.

StormWarrior

They sound so dishonest that I think you need to trick them into admitting on paper that they owe you the money. For example, if you don't have it already then send them an email with something like, "You still owe me 11,000, when will I be repaid?" Then when they email back with "Oh, one day, years from now," you have it on paper from them that they owe you and should repay you. Get as many details into the email as possible, such as the date it was lent and the day they said it would be repaid, so something like, "Look, it was 14th March 2012 when I lent you this 13,000. You said you'd pay me back by 14th March 2013 but its now 2014 and you've only paid back 2,000. I need the rest back asap." Then when they respond they are admitting the details you gave them are true.


Mental to lend someone 13000 though. I refused to even lend my boyfriend 2000 when he asked. I knew something like this would happen.

StormWarrior

Also, how did you give them the money? Cash/bank transfer/cheque? Into the bloke's account or his girlfriend's? Did you put a message with the money, such as writing "LOAN" on the cheque?

CdeC

Hey OP,

They are not your friends. A friend would not do that to someone. Going on an American holiday when they owe you 10 grand. What a pair of scabby, scroungy f**kers. Why is it your problem that she needs to do her courses. Put a case against them and then write them off. Some people are only out for themselves and do not give a damn about other people. Sooner you realise this the better. Move on and hang on to true friends.


PS: don't be thinking that they'll play ball either. These kind of people would well discard a friendship for 10 grand and probably without a second thought. Once your one is finished her courses there'll be other problems and reasons why they can't pay you back.

sparksfly

The problem you face is the reality that without a written legal agreement, they can simply walk away from their responsibilities towards repaying you if they choose.

Only you can best weigh up the risk here. Do you put on the pressure and either expedite the repayment or bring on the other scenario of refusal to pay? Do you, on the other hand keep up the gently gently approach and try to coax it in dribs and drabs without pissing them off?

This is the unenviable decision you must make and I hope it works out well for you.

Calibos

I was starting to think the friend might be took for a ride too and the relationship with his GF will end when all her courses are paid for. Then something another poster said something about whether you have ever talked to the GF about this and a bell went off in my head. Maybe this is all news to her too and the USA trip was not paid for from your money but from 'winnings'. ie. your mates a gambling addict?

Jeff the Cod

betrayed wrote: »

Four years ago I loaned just under €13,000 to my best friends girlfriend after his request.
He agreed that I would be paid back in one year. So far I've received under €2000 back and I was recently informed that I will not be repaid for at least three more years, due to a number of courses that she wants to take, that are very costly and need to be completed before she is too old. Over the four years I have received several excuses for non payment of the loan including medical issues, which I believe to be true, however several thousand was spent about a year ago on an excursion to the USA. I did not ask for any interest or collateral for the loan as I trusted my friend that it would be repayed within the year. The combined income of both my friend and his GF is roughly €2800 per month and their plan is to put all this into her courses. I value my friendship but also want the loan repaid asap. Does anyone have advise or experience with a similar issue?

Sounds like a scam or fraud. Threaten them with the Gardai if your funds are not immediately returned. If you don't get your cash back go straight to your local Gatda station.

ShowMeTheCash

You do not need to have it in writing specificailly, it helps and will make it easier.

If it goes to court a judge will make a decision.

I am assuming you can prove you at least gave them the money?
A cheque? Money Transfer?
Even if you handed them a bag of cash did you withdraw 13K from your account?

The judge will ask.

1. Did they give you the money?
They would need to lie about it if they say no and lying in court will simply mean the judge will rule in your favour.

They say yes.

2. Was it a loan?
They say no then they will have to explain why you gave them a gift of 13K if it does not add up they judge will rule in your favour.

Do they own assets? A house? A car?

Big Bag of Chips

Even if it goes to court and the judge rules in your favour, if they don't have it,, they can't give it to you. And I'm guessing they don't have it. You should absolutely get legal advice now. I would actually stop communicating with them about it from this point on. They know they owe you money. You don't need to keep telling them. Let any more communication come from a solicitor.

And take this as a lesson learned.

Honestly, I don't think you're going to see the money again.

Gannicus

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Careful you cannot ask the OP for feed back I done this a few weeks ago and was banned for a week!

Cheers for the heads up. consider it deleted.

jimmycrackcorm

OP, the first and foremost thing you need regardless is some written and agreed confirmation that the loan has taken place, that they have paid some back and you are due the remainder. You have nothing to back you up regardless of any action you might take. Be very diplomatic and lever your friendship to get this, because its not going to last unless you take a loss.

By all means consult a solicitor, but your debt recovery is going to be expensive, perhaps unrecoverable due to a lack of assets.

Personally, given the circumstances, once the agreement is acknowledged in writing I'd be planning a maximum return which is to both keep the friendship but also a written repayment plan even if it means having to wait it out to get your money back. The simple fact is that you are in a bind and will have to accept you made a mistake in lending the money.

Otherwise the most likely out come, is no friendship, no money back, and more money spent chasing them.

evolving_doors

Is it just between the 3 of ye? ...i.e. does anyone else know.
Perhaps there i's a mutual acquaintance that you could raise the issue with who could in turn put a bit of pressure on (show them the emails/transactions though).
Its a bit of a risk as it could sour relations but if its brought to the attention of all their friends/family then it might change things.
Perhaps you could try and get into their circle of friends and build up trust that way (if you are inclined and have time).
If its not the legal route then the threat of public shame might work. Maybe if all else fails appeal to the girls parents as they might care about her name being sullied more than she does.

castaway_lady

You're nuts if you dont go for the jugular here to get this back. Theyre conning you plain and simple. If she was training to be an astronaut its not your responsibility to fund it. Giving them that money in the first place was nuts obviously. If I were you Id be landing a solicitors letter on their door step Christmas week!

DoYouEvenLift

The thing that even pissed me off from just reading this thread was how they went on a holiday when they still owed the op money. Can't imagine how mad I'd be if I was actually the op, no idea how it took this long to take action but at least it's happening now. Dishonest people like them deserve absolutely no respect.