Td5 issues

gtansey44

Apologies for jumping on this thread...

Have a D90 TD5 starting and running perfectly up till now. Hadn't driven it in weeks battery was dead. Charged overnight following morning hooked it up, started first tip.

Have since started and driven it for a couple of small runs this week. Then earlier today, I turn on the ignition and no sound of the fuel pump priming, oil light on and the temp gauge soared. Jeep hadn't been run for over 15 hours!

Likely causes?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Thank you in advance

gtansey44

should add its turning over but no sign of it to start

Mycroft H

gtansey44 wrote: »

should add its turning over but no sign of it to start

Is the lift pump in the fuel tank buzzing when you turn on the ignition? If that's not working, you'll get cranking but not starting

Mycroft H

Was it noisy recently? Screeching or whining? Handiest way to them on the defender is to actually cut the floor unlike the disco where there is an inspection panel...

gtansey44

Been looking around was hoping it was a common problem... was running fine no signs that the pump was going to go

Literally parked up last night and then this morning turned the ignition and no sound from the pump at all. A few U.K forums saying its likely an earthing issue due to the temp gauge reading high without the engine running

Tail Docker

gtansey44 wrote: »

Been looking around was hoping it was a common problem... was running fine no signs that the pump was going to go

Literally parked up last night and then this morning turned the ignition and no sound from the pump at all. A few U.K forums saying its likely an earthing issue due to the temp gauge reading high without the engine running

I'd say it's a bad earth, not a mechanical issue. Clean the earth. Spray it with copper grease to keep it right.

101sean

My betting is the battery is fubared, Td5s don't like dodgy batteries and leaving it totally discharged won't have done it any good. A couple of small runs won't have been enough to fully charge it.

If you are going to leave it for over two weeks without use, hook up a C-trek trickle charger or I use a small solar panel to keep it topped up, otherwise the immobiliser and alarm will flatten the battery as you found out. I can start mine after 2 months first flick of the key because of the solar panel.

There are a number of earths that can go dodgy, the one on the bulkhead is a prime example. It's also a good idea to run one from the ecu mount to the main earth. While you're fiddling under the drivers seat, check the yellow relays are seated properly.

gtansey44

There are a number of earths that can go dodgy, the one on the bulkhead is a prime example. It's also a good idea to run one from the ecu mount to the main earth. While you're fiddling under the drivers seat, check the yellow relays are seated properly.

Thanks for your help again lads. I was away at the weekend and haven't been able to get at it, I will have a look tomorrow evening and for reference i will let you know what it was if I get it sorted

Regards Gavin

gtansey44

Got to spend most of the evening in the garage checking earths and went through all the fuses and relays and still no joy. Does anyone have any further ideas???

101sean

What happens now when you turn the ignition on and when you try to start it?

Personally I still think it's the battery, ecu needs full volts and a good battery before it will make stuff happen. Can you try jumping it?

If that doesn't work you may have to get it plugged in or borrow a Nanocom or Hawkeye and read the faults.

gtansey44

101sean wrote: »

What happens now when you turn the ignition on and when you try to start it?

Personally I still think it's the battery, ecu needs full volts and a good battery before it will make stuff happen. Can you try jumping it?

If that doesn't work you may have to get it plugged in or borrow a Nanocom or Hawkeye and read the faults.

When I turn the ignition to position 2 the only lights that come on are the oil light, the temp gauge shoots straight to max but now the fuel gauge is reading correctly. I will put it off the van in the morning and see thanks.

101sean

Hope that proves it's simply the battery or I'm going to look silly!

Had mine fail to start after I left the side lights on for only 30 mins a while back, battery had slowly lost performance without me really noticing it as Td5s always start first flick of the key. Got a garage to drop test it and it was well down.

As I have a winch and it also gets left for considerable periods I have a marine battery in the 110, even with trickle charging I'm on my second one in 8 years.

gtansey44

Thanks for your all your help sean101 I really do appreciate it , I just guess I never really thought of the battery as being the culprit. As I had given it a good charge And like you said of td5's it has always started first tip and never had any issues.

I would have hooked up the leads before now only for the awkward position the jeep is in right now.

Anyway heres hoping it is just a battery issue

gtansey44

Tried a jump start and no joy

cleaned and copper greased a couple of bad earth connections including the transfer box

found two wires that ran behind the brake servo that were severed from rubbing on the wing and soldered them, no impact don't know what they were for really

running out of ideas

101sean

Pull the yellow relays under the drivers seat and see if they've discoloured from getting hot, sometimes they don't make a good connection. Is the fuel pump running with the ignition on?

Pull the red plug off the ECU and see if it's full of oil, runs back from the injector loom but usually only causes a misfire. Has been known to fill the ecu with oil, I had to take the top off mine and pour it out, no harm done fortunately.

Check the main engine loom alongside the gearbox up to the back of the engine where is starts to split. They've been known to chafe off the bulkhead or the bellhousing and cause random faults.

If it's none of them, you need to get it plugged in.

gtansey44

I will give it one last shot today and then its diagnostics... Just to be clear when I turn ignition to position 2 only the battery and oil light illuminate. The fuel pump does NOT prime, and while it does turn over there is no sign of it kicking in. Fuel gauge reads correctly but temp gauge goes to max. clock never and still doesn't work. All other functions lights etc. seem good.

Was tempted to try and fire it with some sort of starter fluid but probably not a good idea on an ecu controlled diesel.

Based in Sligo was wondering if there is anyone well drilled in land rovers that could be recommended.

gtansey44

I cleaned a build of sludge from the rear RH wheel arch other than the filter is there anything that I could have possibly disturbed? That is the only thing I did between the jeep running and then the symptoms above.

101sean

You're unlikely to have disturbed anything there.

Don't try easy start or anything like that, won't do any good.

Nearest to you is probably Dikson 4x4 in Castlebar but you'd have to get it to Dan and he's very busy.

gtansey44

the main engine loom alongside the gearbox is the last place i have left to check... i did find some but not much oil in the loom cleaned it out as best i could. I have heard of the ecu randomly packing up so hope its not the case.

castlebar is a good hour and a half trip for me with a trailer and as you said i could be waiting a long time

anyway sorry for all the hassle and the constant questions i'm not the most mechanically minded. I appreciate you taking the time to help

jetfiremuck

Check the ign switch electrical section it may have separated.

gtansey44

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Check the ign switch electrical section it may have separated.

would it crank if this had happened though?

jetfiremuck

Its a process of elimination. Basics of battery condition,good earths youve done. Id be continuing on that path.

gtansey44

I won't get at it until tomorrow now but i take on board what you are saying. Want to avoid bringing in a garage at this point. I have spent hours looking through forums and many have had the exact same symptoms but almost always a different reason. But all do lead back to an underlying electrical fault

jetfiremuck

Can be very frustrating to pinpoint. I would get a test light or ohm/dc voltmeter. See if you can google ign switch/start circuit. Trace the inputs outputs from ign switch. It all starts there. Is there an aftermarket alarm ? If so youll need to bypass to eliminate cause. Take a stepped approach. Itll be a great feelin to fix it yourself and not having to pay €€€€€€ .good Luck. You will get it sorted.

gtansey44

jetfiremuck wrote: »

Can be very frustrating to pinpoint. I would get a test light or ohm/dc voltmeter. See if you can google ign switch/start circuit. Trace the inputs outputs from ign switch. It all starts there. Is there an aftermarket alarm ? If so youll need to bypass to eliminate cause. Take a stepped approach. Itll be a great feelin to fix it yourself and not having to pay €€€€€€ .good Luck. You will get it sorted.

I have a test light and a voltmeter used it when bypassing a couple of earth connections. None of them seemed to be the problem, but one located on the transfer box was very badly corroded. I have actually found several little problems throughout the process that have probably prevented future issues arising, severed wires from rubbing, a poor electrical connection from a previous owner and cleaned alot of residue at known rust points on the chassis.

If nothing else it will give me a better knowledge of the jeep but so very frustrating

101sean

If you want to work out what various circuits, relays, fuses etc do, download a RAVE manual, there's several, you need one that includes your vehicle obviously. The electrical libraries in them are very good with explanations of every circuit as well as diagrams.

Basil Fawlty

The yellow relays under the seat are causing the problem. It cant be the ignition switch if the oil light comes on. The contacts inside the relay get burned and wont pass the voltage through properly. Swap them for two other relays from the main fuse box in the dash. Pull apart the old relays to confirm the burnt contacts. The main relay turns on the ECU and the ECU engages the fuel pump relay.

gtansey44

Basil Fawlty wrote: »

The yellow relays under the seat are causing the problem. It cant be the ignition switch if the oil light comes on. The contacts inside the relay get burned and wont pass the voltage through properly. Swap them for two other relays from the main fuse box in the dash. Pull apart the old relays to confirm the burnt contacts. The main relay turns on the ECU and the ECU engages the fuel pump relay.

I will be passing an auto factors tomorrow so I will replace both relays anyway but swapping them out for relays under the dash didn't help and power is definitely getting to them.

gtansey44

I was unable to get my hands on any relays tried 4 auto factors in Sligo... its a ford product so I can get it from a dealer. Although I have tried swapping them for the relays under the dash.

Should I be hearing a distinct sound of the relay turning off and on?

101sean

You should hear it click if your ear is close by.

gtansey44

Basil Fawlty wrote: »

The yellow relays under the seat are causing the problem. It cant be the ignition switch if the oil light comes on. The contacts inside the relay get burned and wont pass the voltage through properly. Swap them for two other relays from the main fuse box in the dash. Pull apart the old relays to confirm the burnt contacts. The main relay turns on the ECU and the ECU engages the fuel pump relay.

A Massive Thank You to Mycroft H, Tail Docker, 101sean, jetfiremuck and Basil Fawlty.

The issue was the main relay, when I took the cover off the relay to check I couldn't see any burning or damage but double checking it just now with my brother, he manually turned on the relay and Hey Presto fuel pump primed, dash light up and she fired first tip.

Must have made a mistake when switching the relays before and put the same one back in again.

Once again thanks to all.

Gavin

101sean

Glad it turned out to be a known simple to fix problem plus you've learnt a lot on the way!