Friends wife annoyed over money.

Lau2976

I was hoping someone here would be able to help me see this situation from a different perspective as I'm completely drawing a blank.

A few weeks ago I completed some work for a friend of mine and in exchange he did the same for me.

We agreed to do it in spare time. I was doing a portrait of him and his family on a wall (under my advice not to get it done as I find it painfully cringey! ) it took me about two weeks to complete ( gesso'd, glazed, etc) the work he did for me (computer things) took just a few days shorter.

Because of the cost of my raw materials and of the programmes for him we agreed to pay trade prices for materials. My materials came to about 100 less then his but it would have cost me a lot more to get it done anywhere else so I was happy. We even provided receipts (mainly because I find it important to keep work expenses and personal expenses separate and this was a work expense.)

We completed the work, both of us were happy with it, I paid my 100 and off I went. We've even been out for coffee multiple times since. But his wife contacted me yesterday complaining that I paid her husband. She said that we should have both just paid our own expenses and written the rest off. She said that she would never expect a friend to charge her and she was appalled that I had charged her husband for materials.

I thought at first that she was annoyed at her husband but she thinks it was my responsibility to say no.

I'm completely baffled as she would have ended up with 100 less then she has now and even more if they had paid someone else.

Am I missing something here?

Tokyo

Some people wake up in the morning looking for something to complain about.

You and your friend agreed in advance to pay for raw materials, you were both happy and even exchanged receipts so that nobody felt shortchanged. That's where it begins and ends IMO. Eating up an extra €5 or €10 I can understand, but eating a €100 expense, on her say so? Not so much.

Shrug it off for now would be my approach, but if she brings it up again, draw up a bill for what your work would have cost in full, including labour, and hand it to her. And see if she feels so hard done by then.

Lau2976

mike_ie wrote: »

Some people wake up in the morning looking for something to complain about.

You and your friend agreed in advance to pay for raw materials, you were both happy and even exchanged receipts so that nobody felt shortchanged. That's where it begins and ends IMO. Eating up an extra €5 or €10 I can understand, but eating a €100 expense, on her say so? Not so much.

Shrug it off for now would be my approach, but if she brings it up again, draw up a bill for what your work would have cost in full, including labour, and hand it to her. And see if she feels so hard done by then.

Sorry I only realized how weirdly I worded my post. I paid HIM €100! ( I needed specialist programmers) and she thinks I should have said that I wouldn't pay him.

Faith

I'd just tell her to forget about it. It's not a big deal to you so it shouldn't be to her. And you haven't charged them at all, if I'm reading things correctly, so it sounds like she's got her wires crossed. Her husband charged you, in effect. (Unless by "my raw materials", you mean the stuff for the computer work, as opposed to your paints etc?)

But for future reference, you're out of pocket compared to your friend. If your materials cost €400 and his cost €500, for example, you should have only given him €50, so both of your costs would have been €450. By giving him that €100, your (hypothetical) costs went up to €500, while his came down to €400. So if you want to be even, he owes you €50.

Shrap

^^^ Aaarghh! Maths, yuck. It sounds right...ish. But OP, your friend's wife could be just as muddled about who owed who what, as I am. I'd say she's properly got it wrong, but the main thing she's got wrong is taking it up with you. What does her husband say about it?

Also, the other possibility is that an artist is supposed to love their work so much that they'll do it for nothing and shur, tis only a bit of painting - not like real work!! :pac: (I've often had people nearly gasp in horror when I was costing out a mural for them. Have had to point out that 15/20 euro an hour is not that much for highly skilled labour...). Hence, to some people, you shouldn't be charging like it's a real job. Grrr. I hope she's not that thinking along those lines.

Lau2976

Shrap wrote: »

^^^ Aaarghh! Maths, yuck. It sounds right...ish. But OP, your friend's wife could be just as muddled about who owed who what, as I am. I'd say she's properly got it wrong, but the main thing she's got wrong is taking it up with you. What does her husband say about it?

Also, the other possibility is that an artist is supposed to love their work so much that they'll do it for nothing and shur, tis only a bit of painting - not like real work!! :pac: (I've often had people nearly gasp in horror when I was costing out a mural for them. Have had to point out that 15/20 euro an hour is not that much for highly skilled labour...). Hence, to some people, you shouldn't be charging like it's a real job. Grrr. I hope she's not that thinking along those lines.

I know it works out fairer but it involves maths. Anything more then mixing ratios, taxes and cash and you can count me out. I've always just found it easier for then to pay for my materials and me to pay for theirs. No maths and no hard feelings if one job is a lot cheaper then the other.

I'm sure your right. She probably can't see how I could spend money on things "I should already have" because every artist has an endless supply! He said to ignore her and he'd sort it out with her.

Sure we'd be doing anyway for fun! Hagglers are the worst though. I can understand a couple if euro an hour but I've had people try to haggle to a 1/4 of the price.

With me she is. They have 3 kids and I've painted them all for them as a christening gift. At their request if like to add. She expected me to it AND buy a €50+ gift. Because the hours and materials I used to paint that was just free time and spare anyway appearntly I bought them a €20 teddy and they can shush about it!

Shrap

Same. I've had a local drama group try to pilfer me from my own drama group and ask me to paint three 4' x 8' panels to look like a stone built church. Told them what I charge an hour and said it'd take at least 2 weeks if I dropped everything else, but nearer 3 if I didn't, and approx 15 hrs work. They nearly had heart failure and admitted that they hoped I could do it by Monday.... edit: and for free...

And as you know that's 15 hrs solid decision making, every brush stroke a leap of faith/skill. Not like you can just do any old thing and make it look right!

In fairness to most people, they actually don't imagine that it is work even though they recognise the skill.

Lau2976

Shrap wrote: »

Same. I've had a local drama group try to pilfer me from my own drama group and ask me to paint three 4' x 8' panels to look like a stone built church. Told them what I charge an hour and said it'd take at least 2 weeks if I dropped everything else, but nearer 3 if I didn't, and approx 15 hrs work. They nearly had heart failure and admitted that they hoped I could do it by Monday....

And as you know that's 15 hrs solid decision making, every brush stroke a leap of faith/skill. Not like you can just do any old thing and make it look right!

In fairness to most people, they actually don't imagine that it is work even though they recognise the skill.

Geez. I think people automatically assume you don't need a break. I've had a couple of people who think it's perfectly acceptable to request medium sized portraits a week in advance. :rolleyes: Or I've had family or friends who assume I'm their personal painter and will call me and tell me to drop everything and do their work that instant.

Shhh. If people start to realize its half chance they might try it themselves and then well be out if a job! :O

True. I think it can still often be seen as a pretend job for children of the wealthy. And even though they recognize the skill and work people don't see what they should have to pay for your time.

Shrap

Lau2976 wrote: »

Shhh. If people start to realize its half chance they might try it themselves and then well be out if a job! :O
.

Interesting. The leap of faith is in yourself to get it right though. Not everyone can do that, and hold themselves back by thinking they'll get it "wrong". I'm not a professional painter though. It's a hard living to make - fair play to you.

Ignore yer wan. She clearly knows the price of everything and the value of very little.

Lau2976

Shrap wrote: »

Interesting. The leap of faith is in yourself to get it right though. Not everyone can do that, and hold themselves back by thinking they'll get it "wrong". I'm not a professional painter though. It's a hard living to make - fair play to you.

Ignore yer wan. She clearly knows the price of everything and the value of very little.

Very true. I have working on a piece for weeks and when in touching it up I'll ruin it because I'm worried about messing it up. :rolleyes: you so need to have faith in yourself to just do it but I always think chance plays a slight part. The paint could take the the medium wrong, or there could be too much moisture in the air. Just little things you can't control that people think don't matter that could effect something hugely.

Thanks it's nice for someone not to ask when I'll give up and start working in admin! It sounds cheesy but it's so rewarding. It's great that you do it for fun though and sometimes I wish I could go back to it being a hobby because it took any stress out of it. But 99% of the time I love it well maybe 98%!

I'm sure it'll be blown over by tomorrow and she'll get back to asking me to teach her kids to paint :rolleyes:

Shrap

Lau2976 wrote: »

Thanks it's nice for someone not to ask when I'll give up and start working in admin! It sounds cheesy but it's so rewarding. It's great that you do it for fun though and sometimes I wish I could go back to it being a hobby because it took any stress out of it. But 99% of the time I love it well maybe 98%!

I'm sure it'll be blown over by tomorrow and she'll get back to asking me to teach her kids to paint :rolleyes:

Yeah, it's not a hobby for me either. I can paint - doesn't mean I like it tbh, just people keep asking me to! I'm actually a sculptor by ambition if not by trade, ie. I'm finally building a workshop in my 40's so I can move production off the kitchen table. May be professional some day, hopefully. Turns out it's the thing I'm best at, so it's only fair to give it a proper chance. Jaysus knows I fought against it long enough ;-)

Don't have kids of your own or you'll be the resident "volunteer" in the school for art-classes/drama productions. And people will look at you funny if you explain that the last thing you wanted to do was work with 30 kids. Sigh.

Night!

Detached Retina

Lau2976 wrote: »

Very true. I have working on a piece for weeks and when in touching it up I'll ruin it because I'm worried about messing it up. :rolleyes: you so need to have faith in yourself to just do it but I always think chance plays a slight part. The paint could take the the medium wrong, or there could be too much moisture in the air. Just little things you can't control that people think don't matter that could effect something hugely.

Thanks it's nice for someone not to ask when I'll give up and start working in admin! It sounds cheesy but it's so rewarding. It's great that you do it for fun though and sometimes I wish I could go back to it being a hobby because it took any stress out of it. But 99% of the time I love it well maybe 98%!

I'm sure it'll be blown over by tomorrow and she'll get back to asking me to teach her kids to paint :rolleyes:

Defo, my Dad and his friends are a mix of tradesmen, photography enthusiasts and painters (as decorator & in the creative sense) and have worked essentially a skill barter really well among themselves for years and have had some great things done. Thankfully no real disagreements aside from the odd mammy wondering if the value of patching work matched a lovely dog/child portrait. It More than did of course.
A good friend of mine (artist) & also a cousin (trade of plasterer but sculpts and paints also) are both now making a decent living from their preferred skills now after years of grafting, though still make some of it up from the not as fun as they like stuff from doing signs, dodgy wall murals etc.- they are starting to shift their more beloved work so I hope it all goes well for you now

blackbird98

maybe I got it wrong, but she is annoyed with you for giving €100 to her husband??? If that is so, then maybe she is the sort of person that believes, being friends, there was no need for money to exchange hands??

Lovely Bloke

Stop doing things for that woman

bur

Lau2976 wrote: »

...

With me she is. They have 3 kids and I've painted them all for them as a christening gift. At their request if like to add. She expected me to it AND buy a €50+ gift. Because the hours and materials I used to paint that was just free time and spare anyway appearntly I bought them a €20 teddy and they can shush about it!

There's the problem there, she's one of those types.

Mr. Incognito

Tell his wife to mind her own f ing business.

Lau2976

blackbird98 wrote: »

maybe I got it wrong, but she is annoyed with you for giving €100 to her husband??? If that is so, then maybe she is the sort of person that believes, being friends, there was no need for money to exchange hands??

That's what I thought originally but I've paid him for work before and he's paid me. She was probably just in a foul mood so I suppose I shall see when I head over there later.

I would stop doing stuff for her but she isn't worth losing such a close friend over.

Lau2976

Shrap wrote: »

Yeah, it's not a hobby for me either. I can paint - doesn't mean I like it tbh, just people keep asking me to! I'm actually a sculptor by ambition if not by trade, ie. I'm finally building a workshop in my 40's so I can move production off the kitchen table. May be professional some day, hopefully. Turns out it's the thing I'm best at, so it's only fair to give it a proper chance. Jaysus knows I fought against it long enough ;-)

Don't have kids of your own or you'll be the resident "volunteer" in the school for art-classes/drama productions. And people will look at you funny if you explain that the last thing you wanted to do was work with 30 kids. Sigh.

Night!

Well good luck! I've always wanted to be able to sculpt but I'm just not very good :rolleyes: I'm sure you'll do great at it

I volunteer once a week and that's enough for me!