Drinking and Wild Camping

corktina

If I park my Camper up somewhere public and go for a few pints, am I legally in charge of a motor vehicle and likely to get woken up in the dead of night and breathalysed? (I suspect I am)

pa990

While it it technically possible, it's not gonna happen.

You could argue that the camper van is your abode.

bcmf

I thought you had to be in the driver's seat with keys either in hand or in the ignition to be charged with drink driving.

Jesus.

If you're in the driver's seat maybe but if you're in the bed in the back, no.

mgbgt1978

....not possible if the keys are nowhere to be found. You cannot be legally 'in charge' of a motor vehicle if you don't have the means of motorising it

As far as I know, the engine has to be running in order for you to be in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle. In other words, the car is being 'driven' as long as the engine is turned on. When the engine is off, the car is then parked and you're not in control of it or driving it.


The part of that that has always thrown me off is, is you are in a car park spot on the road and the traffic warden shows up. If you start the engine is he no longer able to ticket you as your car is (legally?) no longer 'parked' but in fact being driven (same legal standpoint as if it were stopped a red light?).

Special Circumstances

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As far as I know, the engine has to be running in order for you to be in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle. In other words, the car is being 'driven' as long as the engine is turned on. When the engine is off, the car is then parked and you're not in control of it

Nope, not according to many anecdotes. "drunk in charge" is the offence I believe and being in the drivers seat with the keys is enough to get in trouble by several accounts. No firsthand experience though!

godtabh

I was in a similar situation. Disconnected the battery was the advice I got to not get done

Special Circumstances

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nope, not according to many anecdotes. "drunk in charge" is the offence I believe and being in the drivers seat with the keys is enough to get in trouble by several accounts. No firsthand experience though!

Equally anecdotal, but the place I got my info from was mostly on here.

I remember a thread on the Legal forum a while back where a chap was saying his daughter was caught by the Gardai.

She was in a car park, parked up, engine turned off. However, she'd been smoking some of the not-so-legal stuff.

From what I recall, she wasn't done for actually being in charge of the vehicle, but instead, was done for "intent"of driving while under the influence of drugs.

Now, I'm not sure how it all ended there (or even if I'm recalling it correctly) but it was definitely something along those lines, anyway.


But sure I could be wildly wrong.

BMJD

I'd say you'd be grand (famous last words) in a camper, once you're not in the drivers seat. I recall stories about someone parking up in a car park, going out on an unplanned session then returning to the car with the intention of sleeping in it for the night and getting done.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

....

The part of that that has always thrown me off is, is you are in a car park spot on the road and the traffic warden shows up. If you start the engine is he no longer able to ticket you as your car is (legally?) no longer 'parked' but in fact being driven (same legal standpoint as if it were stopped a red light?).

I was told by a warden in England there is 10 mins grace to facilitate getting change for the metre, ie they wait 10 mind before ticketing cars not displaying the parking paid.

Special Circumstances

"This is my own private domicile and I will not be harassed... B1tch!"

If a person without a licence or a child are asleep in a camper will they be done for "being in charge without a licence". Drunk in charge is the greatest nonsense of an offence ever. If you aren't actually driving then the guards should have no powers imo.

As for a camper, isn't it technically a "home" so how the hell could you be woken from your bed and done for drink driving. Aren't you perfectly entitled to sit in the back of it and drink also? I've always been contemplating getting a cheap camper purely for sleeping in after nights on the beer or for weekends away on the beer.

Voodoomelon

Reminds me of that gobshíte over a year ago who had his charge of drink driving dismissed, as the vehicle in which he was driving many times over the limit, was "no longer mechanically propelled" due to the severe front end damage caused by him smashing it into a pole.

Despite him sitting in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition. The Garda never witnessed him whilst it was a mechanically propelled vehicle, only a drunk man sitting on a seat inside a metal wreckage.

slimjimmc

The offence is not "drunk in charge" it's "drunk in charge with intent to drive or attempt to drive".
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0005.html#sec5

It may be a camper van but it's still a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with the potential to be driven. I don't think there is any derogation to the DD laws just because you've got a moderately comfy leaba in the back.

DEFTLEFTHAND

slimjimmc wrote: »

The offence is not "drunk in charge" it's "drunk in charge with intent to drive or attempt to drive".
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0005.html#sec5

It may be a camper van but it's still a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with the potential to be driven. I don't think there is any derogation to the DD laws just because you've got a moderately comfy leaba in the back.

Intent to drive would be sitting in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition. It's left to the Garda's opinion and you'd presume most of them apply common sense in these situations

slimjimmc

slimjimmc wrote: »

The offence is not "drunk in charge" it's "drunk in charge with intent to drive or attempt to drive".
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2010/en/act/pub/0025/sec0005.html#sec5

It may be a camper van but it's still a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place with the potential to be driven. I don't think there is any derogation to the DD laws just because you've got a moderately comfy leaba in the back.

How is sleeping in the bed in the back of a camper showing intent to drive?

If there is a person with no licence or a child asleep in the back will they be arrested for intend to drive without a licence?

It's nonsensical rubbish.

Kevin McCloud

corktina wrote: »

If I park my Camper up somewhere public and go for a few pints, am I legally in charge of a motor vehicle and likely to get woken up in the dead of night and breathalysed? (I suspect I am)

If its in the dead of the night you will be either asleep or on the job, your hardly going to open the door on either scenario.

slimjimmc

Easton Rich Infantryman wrote: »

How is sleeping in the bed in the back of a camper showing intent to drive?

I never claimed it was. I brought attention to the fact that the law requires 2 proofs, (a) that you are in charge (easy) and (b) that you intend to drive (not so easy to prove).

Easton Rich Infantryman wrote: »

If there is a person with no licence or a child asleep in the back will they be arrested for intend to drive without a licence?

I doubt it, considering there is no such offence of intending to drive sober without a licence. However if a Garda believed that any intoxicated person on board intended to drive then that person could indeed be prosecuted. Note I'm saying "could" not "will" as it's all subjective to the opinion of the Garda.

Easton Rich Infantryman wrote: »

It's nonsensical rubbish.

Indeed, the law often is.

alias no.9

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Intent to drive would be sitting in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition. It's left to the Garda's opinion and you'd presume most of them apply common sense in these situations

The key in the drivers door or entering the drivers seat with the keys on your person is probably enough to demonstrate intent.

Marcusm

The problem is that the law infers an intention to drive unless the contrary can be established.ergo, if asked by a Garda as to your intentions, don't say I'm going to sleep it off then drive but rather I'm going to sleep it off, go for a walk etc.

biko

Leave ignition key behind bar and pick up next day.
No key, no drive, no problem.

corktina

biko wrote: »

Leave ignition key behind bar and pick up next day.
No key, no drive, no problem.

Obvious flaw is I might have a few drinks when collecting the keys....

It really is disgusting if you cant sleep in the back of your own car after a few drinks never mind the back of a camper van. Im sure most of us here have been let down for a place to stay or ended up on an unexpected session and slept in the back of their car or van, it appears a very normal thing to do.

Btw I actually don't believe there would be ever an issue with sleeping in the back of a camper but the fact its even being discussed is enough. Sure how would the guards even know you are inside.

The discussion open up a huge can of worms though as people go on holidays in their camper and treat it as their home, why on earth should it even be suggested that they not be allowed drink in the back or sleep in the back drunk as drunk could be.

biko

corktina wrote: »

Obvious flaw is I might have a few drinks when collecting the keys....

Lol, I can't help you with that, unless if you're in Galway and I can help drink them

wonski

I think the general idea of this law is that drunk people cannot be trusted. Some people don't control their alcohol intake and might wake up 30 minutes later, start their car and drive off.

wonski

wonski wrote: »

I think the general idea of this law is that drunk people cannot be trusted. Some people don't control their alcohol intake and might wake up 30 minutes later, start their car and drive off.

Catch them driving so, otherwise leave them alone.

John_Rambo

Easton Rich Infantryman wrote: »

Catch them driving so, otherwise leave them alone.

Agreed, but is it a case of "where's there a quota, there's a way"?

This issue has been raised amongst friends of mine that would partake in extremes sports where there'd be no hotels, B&B's close by...

I'd say I'd be on death row for the amount of times I've slept in the estate car/van after a few beers or wines following a good surf session. We'd get up early the next morning and go out surfing for a few hours, get brunch in a local pub (no booze), then back East. The biggest danger would be fatigue from surfing, not booze, but shared driving and coffee is the answer there.

I've never driven drunk, even the next morning, i can't drink that much after a surf session.

I'd like to think the people caught with the keys are the ones that fell asleep locked after a drunk drive, not the people genuinely camping and having a tipple at the end of a days enjoyment.

But, is it the case that people are being hammered for having a beer or a glass of wine when the Gard knows full well they have no intention of driving?

braddun

hide your keys and don't give them to the guards for any reason

tell them you lost them

they will search the van for them

christy02

Guy I work with lives out of town and when we go for pints sometimes he drives in his camper into city, parks up somewhere quiet.
Then has a lash of pints and heads back to the van. Sleeps it off then drives home.
Never been done.

Jesus.

Easton Rich Infantryman wrote: »

It really is disgusting if you cant sleep in the back of your own car
I actually don't believe there would be ever an issue with sleeping in the back of a camper but the fact its even being discussed is enough. Sure how would the guards even know you are inside.

I think the bloke that started this thread is on the wind up. And it looks like he's succeeded with you!

A more pointless, irrelevant load of sh*te I haven't read in quite some time.

corktina

That's not very Christian. It was a genuine question and I didn't get the answer I expected

Hachiko

mechanically propelled vehicle#

if you were sat in the seat of an electric car so pished you could get away with it.?

slimjimmc

Hachiko wrote: »

mechanically propelled vehicle#

if you were sat in the seat of an electric car so pished you could get away with it.?

An electric car is a mechanically propelled vehicle.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1961/en/act/pub/0024/sec0003.html

sean1141

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I know, the engine has to be running in order for you to be in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle. In other words, the car is being 'driven' as long as the engine is turned on. When the engine is off, the car is then parked and you're not in control of it or driving it

No key in the ignition while sitting in the drivers seat is enough.

dr.fuzzenstein

corktina wrote: »

That's not very Christian. It was a genuine question and I didn't get the answer I expected

I know what you mean and I don't have a definitive answer, except that getting done for that would require a particularly vindictive copper who on top of it has it in for you because you did something to him like sleep with his wife or run over his dog (or the other way round).
It is up there with stories like some guy in the US failing his company drug test because he ate absolutely everything coated in poppy seeds.
This being Ireland, I guess the answer is, as usual, it depends...

Except for one thing:
If you are parked in a camping ground, extremely unlikely, but if you are parked anywhere beside the road or a public car park, I would say that you stand a very good chance of being woken up by a knock on the door, because if you look at the signs in any car park, it says "no camping or overnight parking". Most likely you will be asked to move along and then you could say you can't, due to drink taken. Then you are the mercy of the copper again.

con___manx1

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nope, not according to many anecdotes. "drunk in charge" is the offence I believe and being in the drivers seat with the keys is enough to get in trouble by several accounts. No firsthand experience though!

Its not they are smart responsible drunks ; ) to punish them would just be plain wrong.

con___manx1

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Nope, not according to many anecdotes. "drunk in charge" is the offence I believe and being in the drivers seat with the keys is enough to get in trouble by several accounts. No firsthand experience though!

Its not they are smart responsible drunks ; ) to punish them would just be plain wrong.

corktina

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I know what you mean and I don't have a definitive answer, except that getting done for that would require a particularly vindictive copper who on top of it has it in for you because you did something to him like sleep with his wife or run over his dog (or the other way round).
It is up there with stories like some guy in the US failing his company drug test because he ate absolutely everything coated in poppy seeds.
This being Ireland, I guess the answer is, as usual, it depends...

Except for one thing:
If you are parked in a camping ground, extremely unlikely, but if you are parked anywhere beside the road or a public car park, I would say that you stand a very good chance of being woken up by a knock on the door, because if you look at the signs in any car park, it says "no camping or overnight parking". Most likely you will be asked to move along and then you could say you can't, due to drink taken. Then you are the mercy of the copper again.

that hasn't happened anyway..I stay away form car parks usually, prefering a nice quite spot out of town. I'd just ignore the knock anyway, there's no way they could tell there was someone in there and I don't think the Gards would want to bother enforcing by-laws.

testicle

corktina wrote: »

that hasn't happened anyway..I stay away form car parks usually, prefering a nice quite spot out of town. I'd just ignore the knock anyway, there's no way they could tell there was someone in there and I don't think the Gards would want to bother enforcing by-laws.

I take it you don't snore? :-)

corktina

dunno, I never hear me

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Except for one thing:
If you are parked in a camping ground, extremely unlikely, but if you are parked anywhere beside the road or a public car park, I would say that you stand a very good chance of being woken up by a knock on the door, because if you look at the signs in any car park, it says "no camping or overnight parking".

Where has city roadside parking ever had a restriction on overnight parking? Most roadside parking is also used by residents in the area so its impossible, same actually for most council car parks.

The only type of place I've seen "no overnight parking" is places like shopping centre car parks, never in council run city centre car parks which are always nearly full at night.

corktina

I find a lot of car parks, particularly at seaside locations have restrictions on overnighting and cooking. How much these are enforced I don't know.

Yeah I meant to add car parks at beaches or parks etc to that too. I had parking in city centre in mind though as opposed holiday spots i.e. heading into town of a Saturday evening, park up central fairly close to the pubs (but obviously in a quiet spot) and head on the beer and then back and sleep in the camper. Thts the sort of use Id have in mind for one.

Shiraz 4.99

Every truck driver with a sleeper cab would get done if this was an offence.
Mythbusted.