teacher losing the head

dollyk

Not sure if this is the right place for this.
Any advice on how to word a letter would be appreciated .
my 10 year old d, came home today very distressed.
her teacher who is maybe in her 30s with 3 small kids
screamed at her till she broke down in tears in front od the class this morning.
ok so this is the main picture of what happened
Three tables won a maths exam, they are in 5th.
The rule is that the teacher buys them sweets on monday.
The teacher was out sick on mon, and tue, so yesterday she forgot.
so my daughter asked her first thing, did she forget the sweets again, with a sulky face.
she told me she had a face on her
The teacher, lost her head, and screamed at her, that she did not ask how her children were ? or why she was out, and screamed at my D, that her children were sick
and the other one would not get out of bed
and all my D could think of was the sweets.
so then she said, no one on your table is getting any now, and I should just go home as all you care about is the sweets.
Im an older parent, she is my 6th, and im totally at a loss for words
one part of me wants to let it go, but another part wants for my D to see I will protect her.
any ideas..... thanks in advance, sorry for punctuation, or lack of it.

byhookorbycrook

I'd check to make sure that this is exactly what happened, before committing anything to writing.

Colser

I would be more inclined to call in and speak with the teacher OP..I would say that my daughter came home upset over something to do with sweets and ask the teacher could she explain exactly what happened.

dollyk

thanks, I will call in and see.
Im aware that Im just getting her side.

BrianBoru00

dollyk wrote: »

Not sure if this is the right place for this.
Any advice on how to word a letter would be appreciated .
my 10 year old d, came home today very distressed.
her teacher who is maybe in her 30s with 3 small kids
screamed at her till she broke down in tears in front od the class this morning.
ok so this is the main picture of what happened
Three tables won a maths exam, they are in 5th.
The rule is that the teacher buys them sweets on monday.
The teacher was out sick on mon, and tue, so yesterday she forgot.
so my daughter asked her first thing, did she forget the sweets again, with a sulky face.
she told me she had a face on her
The teacher, lost her head, and screamed at her, that she did not ask how her children were ? or why she was out, and screamed at my D, that her children were sick
and the other one would not get out of bed
and all my D could think of was the sweets.
so then she said, no one on your table is getting any now, and I should just go home as all you care about is the sweets.
Im an older parent, she is my 6th, and im totally at a loss for words
one part of me wants to let it go, but another part wants for my D to see I will protect her.
any ideas..... thanks in advance, sorry for punctuation, or lack of it.

You say your daughter asked with a sulky face and emphasised it happened before.....

The teacher was out for two days - maybe shes dealing with some serious issues at home and your daughter was expecting sweets which seems ridiculously trivial in comparison.

It s your 6th so I m assuming that your acquainted with this teacher in which case I think you have to judge on history.
Is the first time this teacher has reacted this way? If so, Id make a note of it but not confront her - maybe trivialise it with your daughter and put it down to a bad day for the teacher and that her words were only the straw that broke the camels back!

10000maniacs

If a teacher creates these rules around rewards and such, it is a life lesson to your child to have someone break the rules every so often. Never trust anybody to keep a deal. She will learn that many times in life.

dollyk

@ Brian boro
Yes she did ask with a sulky face.
Im not very acquainted with this teacher, as she is a stand in.
And as she is my 6th I do realise that kids can over react .
I have explained to my daughter that sometimes people even teachers
have bad days, and she did admit that she asked a few times
So i think in hindsight, she was upset coming home, and she didnt give me the full story.
I will go and speak to the teacher if it happens again.
After talking to my daughter again after homework, Im thinking
she did not let up about the fact that the teacher forgot those sweets
and can see that maybe the teacher let her know it was not first on her mind.
Again thanks for the replies .


oh it didnt happen before, my D meant that she had been out for two days and still forgot, I can see its a bit silly now on my behalf, aw Im getting old.

DoYouEvenLift

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

You say your daughter asked with a sulky face and emphasised it happened before.....

The teacher was out for two days - maybe shes dealing with some serious issues at home and your daughter was expecting sweets which seems ridiculously trivial in comparison.

It s your 6th so I m assuming that your acquainted with this teacher in which case I think you have to judge on history.
Is the first time this teacher has reacted this way? If so, Id make a note of it but not confront her - maybe trivialise it with your daughter and put it down to a bad day for the teacher and that her words were only the straw that broke the camels back!

And people who work in retail can be going through serious issues at home yet are expected to and do control themselves even though they're actually dealing with adults who can be genuinely rude and nasty and not children. A teacher who cannot practice self control in their workplace isn't someone who should be tasked with teaching and influencing people's children.

Qualitymark

Teacher sounds like she's under a big strain. But I don't know that it's that appropriate for her to let off at a child like that.
I'd be inclined to say to your kid "OK, sweets are on me this time, well done", and if the kid has a big sulky face say "Yeah, well, *did* you ask after the woman's kids? She's human too!"
But also keep a sharp eye to make sure that this isn't a situation developing.
It might also be a good idea to see if the teacher needs a bit of help; depending on how things go, it might be right to rope in the principal. Not in a punitive way but to give the teacher personal and professional support if she's finding things difficult at first.

Riamfada

BrianBoru00 wrote: »

The teacher was out for two days - maybe shes dealing with some serious issues at home and your daughter was expecting sweets which seems ridiculously trivial in comparison.

Seems unprofessional way to behave however, irregardless of any personal issues. I would say that it would be inappropriate for a student to ask about a teacher's absence and irrational to expect a ten year old to to inquire about the health of her teacher's children.

I would assume that if the teacher responded the same way to a co-worker to a legitimate query there would be some form of reprimand?

I take it this interaction happened in front of the rest of the class?

dollyk

Yes it happened in front of the class.
I think thats why she cried,
she said she was embarrassed.
As I said, it maybe a once off, so I will see what happens.
But I do think personal things should not come into the work place.
I work for a large retail store, and have bad days too,
but i keep my happy work face on for my customers.

Im also aware if I make it a "big deal" my D maybe will think that she can maybe overreact to everything
and have me back her up. hence the reason for posting and getting different opinions. Thanks again


Its the fact that she raised her voice that got to me, I dont tend to scream at her when i want to get a point across.
It was the screaming that got to my d.

byhookorbycrook

I hope I'm not coming across as defending the teacher but if your child admits to having a "sulky face" and asking the teacher a number of times, I think that needs to be factored into the story.

If, in a class of 30 one child was to keep pestering the teacher over sweets, whilst they were trying to catch up on work, listen to the child who fell in the yard, the one complaining about the other child who took his pencil and the child who lost her book or the million other things that go on in a class at any given moment, she (teacher) could give a sharp retort. We are only human.

BUT, if the teacher really did "scream" and reduce your child to genuine tears in front of the other children, the teacher was in the wrong. That's why I think you need to ensure you have the full facts.
We all tend to tell stories to show ourselves in a better light.

byhookorbycrook

As to the "raising her voice," there's a difference between a raised voice and screaming. Most teachers have to raise their voice to be heard at all in our over-crowed classrooms.

heldel00

Teachers shout. That's what has to be done occasionally. Not condoning any teacher screaming at an individual but being shouted at in school should not be seen as a big deal.
Discretion should be used as to those that shouting could really affect (confidence, anxiety etc). 30+ kids, one stressed teacher, catering for special needs, non-national language barrier ... teachers will let the odd bellow out of them!!!

dollyk

ok so ive asked her to tell me exactly how it happened.
She said they were lining up in the yard to go into the classroom
and she asked did she bring the sweets.
her teacher said no and my d made a sulky face
then her teacher said in a screaming voice
i can believe the first thing you sked me was about the sweets
then she tried to open the classroom door, and got the keys mixed up
so when they got in, she screamed at her
i should go home, no one cares that my child is sick
and my other son would not get up this morning
my daughter said i cried cause she was really angry and screaming
and the other kids were asking if she was ok
and she said ok thats it no one is getting any sweets from your table now.


I know we can paint our children out to be darlings
but I have 6 and 4 are married, so i have been through the whole " my teacher hates me" stuff
its the whole fact that screaming in front of the class
about her personal things that got to me tbh
I asked my d, "did you ask about her kids being sick "
and she said NO mam , i didnt even know they were ???
Well thats 10 year olds. I suppose.

and that upset my d even more as her class mates were upset with her too.
so i have written a letter now
saying that i dont think screaming at a ten year old is a good way to communicate
and have requested to have a meeting with her to sort this out .
I dont know any other way to deal with this.
and i realise that we all have bad days, but in fairness
i think that she could have handled it a tad better
am i wrong ?

BrianBoru00

dollyk wrote: »

......oh it didnt happen before, my D meant that she had been out for two days and still forgot, I can see its a bit silly now on my behalf, aw Im getting old.

I don't think your being silly or getting old - Seems like a logical question to be asking and a level response from you.

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

And people who work in retail can be going through serious issues at home yet are expected to and do control themselves even though they're actually dealing with adults who can be genuinely rude and nasty and not children.

Firstly - .We can all be going through a tough time and not snap - its not restricted to retail. Teachers ARE EXPECTED not to snap but like people in private businesses / public service SOME do snap on occasion - NO-ONE is on here condoning the teachers actions

Secondly your implying children cannot be rude and nasty while adults can??
You must live a sheltered life..

NormalBob Ubiquitypants

dollyk wrote: »

ok so ive asked her to tell me exactly how it happened.
She said they were lining up in the yard to go into the classroom
and she asked did she bring the sweets.
her teacher said no and my d made a sulky face
then her teacher said in a screaming voice
i can believe the first thing you sked me was about the sweets
then she tried to open the classroom door, and got the keys mixed up
so when they got in, she screamed at her
i should go home, no one cares that my child is sick
and my other son would not get up this morning
my daughter said i cried cause she was really angry and screaming
and the other kids were asking if she was ok
and she said ok thats it no one is getting any sweets from your table now.
and that upset my d even more as her class mates were upset with her too.
so i have written a letter now
saying that i dont think screaming at a ten year old is a good way to communicate
and have requested to have a meeting with her to sort this out .
I dont know any other way to deal with this.
and i realise that we all have bad days, but in fairness
i think that she could have handled it a tad better
am i wrong ?

Not to be smart about this but why would a bunch of 10 year olds care? Has she not heard of leaving your problems at the door?
In honesty, if it was me that did that my mother would not have written a letter or gone in- it would be brought up at the parent teacher meeting no matter how far away it is. My advice would be to tell your daughter not to ask again or be over familiar with her teacher. If the teacher goes crazy again, then deal with it.

BrianBoru00

dollyk wrote: »

ok so ive asked her to tell me exactly how it happened.
She said they were lining up in the yard to go into the classroom
and she asked did she bring the sweets.
her teacher said no and my d made a sulky face
then her teacher said in a screaming voice
i can believe the first thing you sked me was about the sweets
then she tried to open the classroom door, and got the keys mixed up
so when they got in, she screamed at her
i should go home, no one cares that my child is sick
and my other son would not get up this morning
my daughter said i cried cause she was really angry and screaming
and the other kids were asking if she was ok
and she said ok thats it no one is getting any sweets from your table now.
and that upset my d even more as her class mates were upset with her too.
so i have written a letter now
saying that i dont think screaming at a ten year old is a good way to communicate
and have requested to have a meeting with her to sort this out .
I dont know any other way to deal with this.
and i realise that we all have bad days, but in fairness
i think that she could have handled it a tad better
am i wrong ?

No. She absolutely handled it wrongly and should keep her home life private and maintained her professionalism while at work.

Again only you can judge the correct response for this occassion - my advice would still stand i.e. if it is a once off incident put it down to a very bad day . But if this was a continuation of consistent vindictiveness or unprofessionalism I would certainly request a meeting.

heldel00

My advice is make a phone call in the morn and make an appt to meet the teacher. Trust me that no matter how you word the letter it will be picked up wrong and you will get off on the wrong foot with the teacher (maybe you won't but it's a long time til June!)
Face to face or even on the phone is always best in my opinion. Remember it is a first offence by this teacher so maybe you having a chat with them, rather than a letter, outlining how ths affected your daughter will be of a lot more benefit.

killbillvol2

heldel00 wrote: »

My advice is make a phone call in the morn and make an appt to meet the teacher. Trust me that no matter how you word the letter it will be picked up wrong and you will get off on the wrong foot with the teacher (maybe you won't but it's a long time til June!)
Face to face or even on the phone is always best in my opinion. Remember it is a first offence by this teacher so maybe you having a chat with them, rather than a letter, outlining how ths affected your daughter will be of a lot more benefit.

I think that's very sound advice.

OP, just say your daughter was upset and let her (the teacher) take it from there.

dockleaf

Personally if no previous history with the teacher, I'd let it go.

You only have one side, you're aware there's more than likely another. Making it an issue now- will it help your daughter, or make a big deal of it?

Even if the teacher made a mistake, we are all human, she probably feels worse about it herself anyway. But going into to talk to her about it may put her on the defensive.

Just my personal opinion, if the teacher has been fine up until now I'd give her the benefit of the doubt.

my teapot is orange

The teacher seems to want a level of social judgement and sensitivity more advanced than a child that young could be expected to have. In my opinion therefore she wasn't justified in reprimanding the child in such a severe manner. She might have told the child calmly that she shouldn't ask like that or something, but not this. Also, you seem to be focusing on the screaming, but I think the tactic of turning her peers against her by saying nobody is getting sweets because of what she did is just as bad.

Kathnora

I have been that teacher who "lost it" on a few occasions over the course of my career and boy was I driven to it too....sulky children, children persisting on asking 10 times over about something etc etc. When challenged I always apologised if I raised my voice too loudly but I took care to explain what drove me to it. I would think that that teacher already regrets what she said so I would give her a chance. I would also explain to the child that sulky faces and persistent questioning is not the correct way to behave either.

Big Bag of Chips

The story seems to have changed from your daughter saying she did ask a few times, to your daughter just saying once at the door and the teacher having a melt down.

I would question if the teacher "screamed" at your daughter. I don't doubt out of frustration she probably shouted at her, but I often hear teachers shouting. They are usually in a room with a lot of children. Shouting is sometimes necessary! If the teacher screamed at your child that's unacceptable, if she shouted, that's a bit different.

You have your daughter's version of events. Kids are very good at telling a story and making themselves out to be the victim. I think a note to the teacher good be misinterpreted, your best bet is to either ring her or try go in to talk to her.. Or just let it go!

Your daughter will get over it. The teacher was stressed and having a bad day. Yes, in a perfect world, we should all be level headed and professional at all times. In the real world people get stressed and hassled and sometimes let their guard slip. If she's not usually the type to lose her head at the kids I'd put it down to a bad day and something that is not going to scar your child for life.

dollyk

bag of chips, I meant she asked a few times, but not on that morning
she asked the day before too, so thats what I meant.
Anyway thanks for all the replies, I have decided to let it go as a once off
She was fine coming home from school, and it was not mentioned.
They didnt get the sweets in the end, and nobody asked.;)
and you are right, she wont be scarred for life.

heldel00

Very good call. Really wish there were more parents like you.

evolving_doors

Quite often the devil's in the detail but in this case I would say the OP's responses are measured enough and she knows the story.

Basically bringing personal problems to kids is totally unfair and unprofessional.. (some might feel compelled to ask how are things with her kids now! .. this aint on). Sure we're all human but theres a line.

I just found out this week that 3 of our students have a parent with months to live, everyone was shocked because they didn't act in any way different. Most of the time we find that the students like to come to school for a sense of normality/refuge away from home, and they ask not to be treated any different when family times are tough. Of course there is school support in place etc. so its not as if they 'must' put on a face. But unfortunately teachers must put on the face as this is what gives the kids the sense of security for learning to take place.

So from that perspective I think that teacher might be going through a rough patch ... but bringing it on kids is crossing the line.

Now what the OP wants to dó with it is her call, and I think they've appreciated the nuances of the situation.

Maybe the teacher is 'crying for help' so a quiet word with the Principal might be more beneficial than a 'formal letter of complaint'.
Whats really going on in the teachers life is all just speculation on here, maybeshe needs to just'cop the hell on' or maybe she is in dire need of a leave of absence... I think the best judge of that would be the Principal.

ProfessorPlum

Kathnora wrote: »

I have been that teacher who "lost it" on a few occasions over the course of my career and boy was I driven to it too....sulky children, children persisting on asking 10 times over about something etc etc. When challenged I always apologised if I raised my voice too loudly but I took care to explain what drove me to it. I would think that that teacher already regrets what she said so I would give her a chance. I would also explain to the child that sulky faces and persistent questioning is not the correct way to behave either.

Very few of us are immune to 'losing it', however, having shouted / screamed at the girl, embarrassing her in front of her peers (a mortal act for most sentinent kids) and reducing her to tears, the teacher should have apologised to her and made it clear to the class that the child was not at fault. She shouldn't have to be 'challenged' to do that. The child certainly would not have been in a position, and apologising to the parent is missing the point - the child was the one who was wronged. If i was in the OP's situation, I would point out to the teacher that I was unhappy with the way she dealt with the situation. Perhaps the next time she comes to work stressed, she may be better able to deal with it.

byhookorbycrook

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Very few of us are immune to 'losing it', however, having shouted / screamed at the girl, embarrassing her in front of her peers (a mortal act for most sentinent kids) and reducing her to tears, the teacher should have apologised to her and made it clear to the class that the child was not at fault. She shouldn't have to be 'challenged' to do that. The child certainly would not have been in a position, and apologising to the parent is missing the point - the child was the one who was wronged. If i was in the OP's situation, I would point out to the teacher that I was unhappy with the way she dealt with the situation. Perhaps the next time she comes to work stressed, she may be better able to deal with it.

This is what the OP's daughter said, but the full facts are not known.

ProfessorPlum

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

This is what the OP's daughter said, but the full facts are not known.

That's a bit of a defensive stance. I thought we had moved on to believing children's concerns.
In any case, the OP seems a very reasonable parent - I see no reason not to trust their judgement regarding their own child and her account of what happened.

lazygal

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

This is what the OP's daughter said, but the full facts are not known.

As a parent my priority is my child. If a child has a problem that needs to be dealt with.
I understand a teacher might get defensive but the fact is the child isn't comfortable and that needs to be addressed. I know teachers can get defensive about being challenged about their classroom behaviour but things have moved on since teachers were always seen as infallible.

Kathnora

Yes, lazy gal things have moved on since the days when teachers were considered infallible....think my post (no. 23) supported that fact. There was a time too when if a child reported getting a slap at school she would get another one at home! Good that those days are over. However, we must be careful not to let the pendulum swing completely the other way to a situation where the child is infallible!

killbillvol2

As far as I can see the OP has reached a conclusion on this and I don't understand why the thread was resurrected?

Kathnora

Agreed! But I did think lazygal's comment needed a response.

byhookorbycrook

lazygal wrote: »

As a parent my priority is my child. If a child has a problem that needs to be dealt with.
I understand a teacher might get defensive but the fact is the child isn't comfortable and that needs to be addressed. I know teachers can get defensive about being challenged about their classroom behaviour but things have moved on since teachers were always seen as infallible.

Nobody is saying the teacher is infallible, just that the OP should have the full story before she "challenges" the teacher. The word "challenge" suggests a confrontation, as opposed to a meeting with both parties discussing and hopefully resolving the issue.

xLisaBx

It's not so long since I've been in primary school and we were always shouted at? I'd say every day almost. I don't think it's really uncommon if I'm being brutally honest. I know for a fact nobodys parents came in or wrote in due to shouting

Kathnora

xLisaBx wrote: »

It's not so long since I've been in primary school and we were always shouted at? I'd say every day almost. I don't think it's really uncommon if I'm being brutally honest. I know for a fact nobodys parents came in or wrote in due to shouting

Well over the past 30+ years that I have been in my school I've seen lots of parents come in to air their grievances...some justified, some not.

ProfessorPlum

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Nobody is saying the teacher is infallible, just that the OP should have the full story before she "challenges" the teacher. The word "challenge" suggests a confrontation, as opposed to a meeting with both parties discussing and hopefully resolving the issue.

Neither is Lazygal suggesting the teacher is infallible - is that really what you understood from her comment?
And how on earth is a parent supposed to 'have the full story' without approaching the teacher, given that you seem slow to believe the child in this instance?
(The word 'challenge' was introduced by another poster who conceded that she apologised when challenged after instances of shouting at children.)

dollyk

I did decide to let it go as a once off, and all seems fine with my D.
Although another parent did approach me at the school and say
her son came home and told her that the teacher lost the head
with my d. And then went on to tell me the teacher was stressed
because of *********. happening in her personal life.
Im not going to say as im not sure other people who know me, or my child
are on here.
And while i do sympathise with the things that are going on with this teacher
I do think she was out of line.
Having said that my D seems unfazed tbh after the initial shock.
So ill stand by what I have decided, and will react if it does happen again over personal stuff.
Once again thanks for the replies.

byhookorbycrook

If another child recognises that teacher was totally out of line, then I might consider talking with the teacher.

braddun

tell your child that your teacher was under a lot of pressure


if you talk to the teacher it will make it worse

padohaodha

Storm in a teacup .let it go.

D4RK ONION

padohaodha wrote: »

Storm in a teacup .let it go.

You should perhaps read the whole thread before making pointless comments like the above. Unless you're somehow referring to OPs last post, but that makes no sense either.

Either way, I think the issue's been fleshed out. Thread closed