Retrospective Look & Rebooking of Wrestlemania 30

MrLucidLJ

mrkiscool2

Like I was willing to look past the fact you don't think WM 30 was a good show because of how bad the product is now (which is a ridiculous reason to downgrade a show, but anyway) but once you said Rock and Autin shouldn't of come down to do a promo I stopped listening. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Stereomaniac

I know that we all have a tendency to fantasy book, and/or criticise the product that WWE is putting out there. But I really don't understand the reasoning behind that video posted up above.

MrLucidLJ

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Like I was willing to look past the fact you don't think WM 30 was a good show because of how bad the product is now (which is a ridiculous reason to downgrade a show, but anyway) but once you said Rock and Autin shouldn't of come down to do a promo I stopped listening. You have no idea what you are talking about.

It was a waste of time and took 30 minutes before the first match. We never saw this before in wrestlemania before with a segment its cool to see but in past announcers would open up show pumped about matches instead of yet again relying on veterans could have done this on raw. Don't judge a video without evening watching it all.

MrLucidLJ

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I know that we all have a tendency to fantasy book, and/or criticise the product that WWE is putting out there. But I really don't understand the reasoning behind that video posted up above.

Well its something I enjoy and think I am good at it and reasoning I had this in my own thread but apparently you have to ask to post YouTube videos on here.

mrkiscool2

MrLucidLJ wrote: »

It was a waste of time and took 30 minutes before the first match. We never saw this before in wrestlemania before with a segment its cool to see but in past announcers would open up show pumped about matches instead of yet again relying on veterans could have done this on raw. Don't judge a video without evening watching it all.

You want to get rid of perhaps one of the most iconic promos of all time as well as one of the greatest Wrestlemania moments of all times. That clearly means you have no idea how a crowd works. Those 3 worked the crowd and heated them up. Without it half the matches wouldn't have been as strong as they were (that, followed by Bryan's reactions had them all going mental until the madness that was Lesnar vs Taker). If you can't understand the basic principles of how a crowd works you shouldn't be fantasy booking anything

MrLucidLJ

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

You want to get rid of perhaps one of the most iconic promos of all time as well as one of the greatest Wrestlemania moments of all times. That clearly means you have no idea how a crowd works. Those 3 worked the crowd and heated them up. Without it half the matches wouldn't have been as strong as they were (that, followed by Bryan's reactions had them all going mental until the madness that was Lesnar vs Taker). If you can't understand the basic principles of how a crowd works you shouldn't be fantasy booking anything

I have been a wrestling fan 17 plus years so I have a fair idea how crowds work mate. Possibly been a fan longer then you. The fact for a number of years wwe relies on all the old talent then a well built up new crop which we don't really have makes me think this generation is dreadful. Why do they need to pump crowd shouldn't Bryans overness do that or triple h heel heat do that. Name me manias off past that opened like this. The great moment you mentioned of takers streak ending was literally no crowd reaction at all after a kick out finisher match which are over done in WWE. There wasn't even boos nothing takers streak is over rated no drama in it being broken for years only done it this year to try manufacture a moment hand pickedllesnar and no one got hurt or benefits from it.

mrkiscool2

MrLucidLJ wrote: »

I have been a wrestling fan 17 plus years so I have a fair idea how crowds work mate.

Clearly, seeing as you want to get rid of a segment that pumps the crowd up.

Possibly been a fan longer then you.

*Sigh* I hate when this is trotted out. I've been a fan of football longer than Ross Barkley therefore I should a. be better at it and b. know more about it. That's your logic right there. Being a fan for longer than me doesn't mean you know anything more about booking or crowd reactions or how to properly book an event.

The fact for a number of years wwe relies on all the old talent then a well built up new crop which we don't really have makes me think this generation is dreadful. Why do they need to pump crowd shouldn't Bryans overness do that or triple h heel heat do that.

Yes, and they did. Put Daniel Bryan's yes chant wouldn't have been anywhere near as loud had the segment before not happened. It would have gotten the crowd going sure but WM (and especially 30, an anniversary WM where the past was being celebrated as well as the future) is all about iconic moments. We had multiple ones in that WM and that promo was one of the biggest ones.

Name me manias off past that opened like this.

None. But that's the point. WM 30 was a celebration for how far the event has come. If it happened every year the impact would have been diminished entirely.

The great moment you mentioned of takers streak ending was literally no crowd reaction at all after a kick out finisher match which are over done in WWE. There wasn't even boos nothing takers streak is over rated no drama in it being broken for years only done it this year to try manufacture a moment hand pickedllesnar and no one got hurt or benefits from it.

Again, another example that you have no idea how to work a crowd or how to book. In wrestling, especially something as mainstream as WWE, you need a huge twist every now and again. It's needed to shock the fans and make them believe, as Vince and co. want you to believe, that anything can happen in the WWE. The drama was in the silence of the crowd. If you don't think that silence is just as big as sound you are clearly deluded. The reactions, the silence (and WWEs brilliance of not playing Lesnar's music right after the result to let it sink in) added to the fact Taker had finally be beaten at WM. It's very simple yet amazing booking. I mightn't agree with Lesnar being the one to beat the streak, but it was still good booking.

Stereomaniac

MrLucidLJ wrote: »

Well its something I enjoy and think I am good at it and reasoning I had this in my own thread but apparently you have to ask to post YouTube videos on here.

If you want to be good at it, then you have to be prepared to enter into a discussion with people afterwards. You are putting your opinion out there for others to listen to, and you offer people the chance to leave comments at the end. There are some issues in there that I agree with you on, and others that I just don't have a clue what you are talking about at all. Were you saying that WWE made Daniel Bryan grow his hair and his beard so that he wouldn't get over? I never said you have to ask permission to post You Tube videos on here. I am not sure what you are making reference to here.

rovert

MrLucidLJ wrote: »

Well its something I enjoy and think I am good at it and reasoning I had this in my own thread but apparently you have to ask to post YouTube videos on here.

I'll seen you and your ideas get poorly received on every forum you have posted on for years and years. If you think you are good at it then I think you have an over inflated opinion of yourself.

MrLucidLJ

rovert wrote: »

I'll seen you and your ideas get poorly received on every forum you have posted on for years and years. If you think you are good at it then I think you have an over inflated opinion of yourself.

What other forums have you seen my ideas get poorly received on other forums then for years and years. If you haven't watched the video then you can't really say much. I have had positive feedback on booking videos before if you want me to post the full match card on here I will.

MrLucidLJ

Stereomaniac wrote: »

If you want to be good at it, then you have to be prepared to enter into a discussion with people afterwards. You are putting your opinion out there for others to listen to, and you offer people the chance to leave comments at the end. There are some issues in there that I agree with you on, and others that I just don't have a clue what you are talking about at all. Were you saying that WWE made Daniel Bryan grow his hair and his beard so that he wouldn't get over? I never said you have to ask permission to post You Tube videos on here. I am not sure what you are making reference to here.

Yes of course I understand people will not have the same viewpoint as me or even agree with ideas, but I hate when people criticize my stuff without even watching the entire video with the ideas I actually put fourth, or people who don't back up there opinion with strong arguments. Ok I would like to know the stuff you agree with and the other things you don't agree with would be good to listen to good feedback and the stuff you like and don't like to see if I can see your viewpoint. I could be wrong but heard WWE didn't want him to get popular by telling him to grow out his hair and beard. I think his look is like a hobo and would prefer a hair cut and a way shorter beard or stubble.

BohsJohnny

It's great when people remind you why you put them on the ignore list.

MrLucidLJ

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

Clearly, seeing as you want to get rid of a segment that pumps the crowd up.


*Sigh* I hate when this is trotted out. I've been a fan of football longer than Ross Barkley therefore I should a. be better at it and b. know more about it. That's your logic right there. Being a fan for longer than me doesn't mean you know anything more about booking or crowd reactions or how to properly book an event.


Yes, and they did. Put Daniel Bryan's yes chant wouldn't have been anywhere near as loud had the segment before not happened. It would have gotten the crowd going sure but WM (and especially 30, an anniversary WM where the past was being celebrated as well as the future) is all about iconic moments. We had multiple ones in that WM and that promo was one of the biggest ones.


None. But that's the point. WM 30 was a celebration for how far the event has come. If it happened every year the impact would have been diminished entirely.


Again, another example that you have no idea how to work a crowd or how to book. In wrestling, especially something as mainstream as WWE, you need a huge twist every now and again. It's needed to shock the fans and make them believe, as Vince and co. want you to believe, that anything can happen in the WWE. The drama was in the silence of the crowd. If you don't think that silence is just as big as sound you are clearly deluded. The reactions, the silence (and WWEs brilliance of not playing Lesnar's music right after the result to let it sink in) added to the fact Taker had finally be beaten at WM. It's very simple yet amazing booking. I mightn't agree with Lesnar being the one to beat the streak, but it was still good booking.

Well I will debunk some of your theories here and debate you on the things you said. I don't deny that it pumps up the crowd but it wasn't needed to be that long or all the guys they were there. All they did was like say wrestling is good so like it. Example its like a used car sales man saying buy this car without saying what are the good features about the car. These men were great in the day but did nothing at all to mention anything about the card except pump there own egos up. Same with commentary they said nothing before these men came out to pump up the crowd about the actual matches for the night.
My point of saying I have been a fan 17 years was simply to say I have a good bit of knowledge of wrestling and still learning stuff about it day by day that I didn't know. I would be curious to know how many years you are a fan of wrestling. I admit that someone who has been watching around 18 plus years then has more knowledge then me I don't claim to know everything about wrestling I know a good chunk. I think from watching periods in wrestling I have a fair idea of how to book a show people would like to watch and pay to see and also crowd reactions I know how to get a crowd going. The fact alone without Hogan Rock & Austin coming out without them there and it being Wrestlemania 30 should be enough to get a crowd going plus if the card had more depth and better built then people would be pumped and more invested in it. People seem to just go to Wrestlemania these days on the name fact alone rather then the actual card or state of the product.
Well I think if people were excited enough the Bryan chant would have been loud enough if they were 100 percent invested in the guy. I like Bryan think he is a nice guy decent look decent on mic good wrestler, but I think the chant is more over then him tbh. If this was any other era would he have made it as a top guy of the company I highly doubt it. What moments did we really have though to celebrate Wrestlemania 30 and the 30 years before that? We had something with Piper, Hogan & Orndorff backstage but apart from that what else did we get. Also when it was Wrestlemania 20 we never got an opening segment like we did at this show to waste time we went straight into matches which is what people should be there to watch the show.
I have a fairly good idea how to work a crowd. You shouldn't be relying always on the veterans the guys of now should be booked like stars and not like complete morons who are deliberately booked to not get over. Look how hot and over Wyatt was earlier this year and then he hit the John Cena Ceiling and fell into midcard after being uppermidcard for most of the year. I have a huge twist in this card actually and a lot of special moments if you actually bothered to spend the time to listen to it instead of judge before. I get that it is important to have special moments to create drama in a show but having no reaction is bad reaction to me. I get fans should be stunned that the over rated streak is over, but when you watch the match there is no reaction like previous taker matches because all they have been since Wrestlemania 23 is kick out matches. Fans are programmed to know when a kick out is so where is the excitement and drama there?
Wrestling is supposed to be booked like a sport show and if something shocking happens in football aka soccer then the commentators mark out rather then be silent maybe initially shocked but they are totally shocked in emotion by like OMG what have we just seen. If Ross was on commentary he would have marked out of this. Taker chose Lesnar to be the guy to beat him why not pick a Punk the year before or someone who will benefit from it and become a star. If Wyatt had broken it for example he would have been a major heel for years and could take that Taker like mantle. A guy like Lesnar is hardly around and not getting full benefits and heat from it people already forgot about it.

MrLucidLJ

BohsJohnny wrote: »

It's great when people remind you why you put them on the ignore list.

You have me on such a list then is it?

jaykhunter

Moved this into it's own thread and locked it before people start getting banned. You can continue the conversation via PM, but be aware that insulting other users (publicly or privately) on boards will get you banned.