Iarnrod Eireann fine.. wasnt me

carzony · 17-11-2014 5:15pm #1

I got a letter in the door today saying I have been fined 110 euro by the Dart for non payment of a fare.

I know 100% it wasn't me. what do I do? I suspect someone gave the inspector my name. How can I prove it wasn't me? cctv?

schemingbohemia · 17-11-2014 5:17pm

Did they provide a date and time of the incident? Call the contact details on the standard fare letter you received.

carzony · 17-11-2014 5:20pm

no date or time when the incident took place on the letter. Just gives me a reference number.. Surely you can't just give any old name to the inspectors?

GerardKeating · 17-11-2014 5:24pm

carzony wrote: »

no date or time when the incident took place on the letter. Just gives me a reference number.. Surely you can't just give any old name to the inspectors?

Sadly Yes.

Write back (write, not email) and inform them that it was not you, some falsely gave your details.

carzony · 17-11-2014 5:24pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Sadly Yes.

Write back (write, not email) and inform them that it was not you, some falsely gave your details.

surely they need some evidence to prosecute like a photo of the person? or as I said cctv?

Losty Dublin · 17-11-2014 8:11pm

carzony wrote: »

surely they need some evidence to prosecute like a photo of the person? or as I said cctv?

Irish Rail will send the staff member who issued the fixed penalty fare to the court sitting as they need to give evidence of catching passengers travelling without a valid ticket. The problem in this case is that you need to prove it wasn't you otherwise you will need to convince the judge on the day; this means a day in court.

Contact them as as matter of urgency. They will have a note of the time, date, train service and the details of the staff member in question so you can pin it down to a where and when. If you have proof of you being elsewhere at the time in question, you should provide same. Incidents of people giving false details happens a fair bit so they will know the drill and how to absolve yourself from this mess.

carzony · 17-11-2014 10:41pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Irish Rail will send the staff member who issued the fixed penalty fare to the court sitting as they need to give evidence of catching passengers travelling without a valid ticket. The problem in this case is that you need to prove it wasn't you otherwise you will need to convince the judge on the day; this means a day in court.

Contact them as as matter of urgency. They will have a note of the time, date, train service and the details of the staff member in question so you can pin it down to a where and when. If you have proof of you being elsewhere at the time in question, you should provide same. Incidents of people giving false details happens a fair bit so they will know the drill and how to absolve yourself from this mess.

should they have cctv or photos of the person? I also want to make some kind of claim/complaint against the company.. sending me bills and allowing a person to give any details like that is ridiculous.

I mean why not ring the Garda to find out who the person was? why not ask for a Date of Birth or why not detain him until suitable ID was produced?

when I called them today they said a DOB wasn't produced by the person..

Losty Dublin · 17-11-2014 11:04pm

carzony wrote: »

should they have cctv or photos of the person? I also want to make some kind of claim/complaint against the company.. sending me bills and allowing a person to give any details like that is ridiculous.

I mean why not ring the Garda to find out who the person was? why not ask for a Date of Birth or why not detain him until suitable ID was produced?

when I called them today they said a DOB wasn't produced by the person..

They have access to Thom's Directory and they use it to confirm names and addresses. They may ask for ID to confirm details and they have lawful right of arrest and detainment if required; they don't always do either due to the risk of non co-operation or even threats.

If you want to obtain CCTV you'd still need to contact them as a matter of urgency. The fine is a more urgent matter to address.

As regards a claim, perhaps you should sue the person who gave the false details

Chances are that it's a friend or family member so they may well be found out sooner or later.

carzony · 18-11-2014 12:06am

i'll be ringing them asap to sort it out.. i actually tried today but they close at 4.30. i will let them know it wasnt me but i still want security staff to do their jobs properly.. otherwise this could happen everyday..

why would anyone pay their fares if it's this easy to give a fake name....

Fred Swanson · 18-11-2014 10:41am

This post has been deleted.

plodder · 18-11-2014 12:58pm

carzony wrote: »

should they have cctv or photos of the person? I also want to make some kind of claim/complaint against the company.. sending me bills and allowing a person to give any details like that is ridiculous.

I mean why not ring the Garda to find out who the person was? why not ask for a Date of Birth or why not detain him until suitable ID was produced?

when I called them today they said a DOB wasn't produced by the person..

A similar question arose in a different issue the other day. I don't know whether it's common practice, but I think it should be. It's not unreasonable at all to expect them to take a photo of the person. If I were a judge, I'd throw a case like this out, where they didn't take steps like that.

Grolschevik · 18-11-2014 1:33pm

plodder wrote: »

A similar question arose in a different issue the other day. I don't know whether it's common practice, but I think it should be. It's not unreasonable at all to expect them to take a photo of the person. If I were a judge, I'd throw a case like this out, where they didn't take steps like that.

I was issued a (penalty) standard fare once (incorrectly, by the way!) and the guy wrote down a physical description of me.

carzony · 18-11-2014 4:24pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

never even heard of thom's?

All sorted folks.. turned out ot be a neighbour.. I think he's due a knock on the door now though

:D

January · 18-11-2014 5:43pm

Did he give your name and address or was it an address mix up?!

I'd be seriously pissed off with my neighbour if he did that!

carzony · 18-11-2014 6:44pm

January wrote: »

Did he give your name and address or was it an address mix up?!

I'd be seriously pissed off with my neighbour if he did that!

neighbour gave all my details... I'll say nothing and have a laugh when the letter arrives 110 bill for him

:D:D

Peppa Pig · 18-11-2014 8:28pm

How did you figure out it was him?

robman60 · 18-11-2014 8:30pm

carzony wrote: »

neighbour gave all my details... I'll say nothing and have a laugh when the letter arrives 110 bill for him :D:D

Saying nothing?! I admire your discipline but I'd definitely be over having words, or I'd at least hint to him that I knew what he'd done! He had some audacity to do that to you!

plodder · 18-11-2014 8:45pm

Grolschevik wrote: »

I was issued a (penalty) standard fare once (incorrectly, by the way!) and the guy wrote down a physical description of me.

probably reasonable enough up to about 15 years ago, when digital cameras became very common. It's almost hard to believe that an inspector doesn't have a digital camera (phone) on them at least.

JackieChan · 18-11-2014 8:49pm

I'm a daily commuter on the Portlaoise - Heuston route and any time I've seen spot-checks, the inspectors will look for ID.If they can't get that they will ask for a phone number for someone who can vouch that you are who you say you are and confirm your address.
Many a time I've seen them ring a parent or other to confirm details.

carzony · 18-11-2014 8:59pm

Peppa Pig wrote: »

How did you figure out it was him?

He jumped one of the barriers and they swooped in and stopped him. Which is why they had the cctv footage available..

To my surprise, Most incidents like this are not recorded and name are just taken. Another shock is that they never asked him for a DOB or ID :eek::eek:

Fred Swanson · 18-11-2014 9:00pm

This post has been deleted.

carzony · 18-11-2014 9:01pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

it could happen to anyone given the procedure that seems to be in place:eek:..

Yorker · 18-11-2014 10:48pm

carzony wrote: »

He jumped one of the barriers and they swooped in and stopped him. Which is why they had the cctv footage available..

To my surprise, Most incidents like this are not recorded and name are just taken. Another shock is that they never asked him for a DOB or ID :eek::eek:

if they showed you his footage is that breach if data protection?

Zambia · 18-11-2014 10:55pm

Maybe I'm mad but isn't the onus to prove I'd on the prosecution?

bazzer86 · 18-11-2014 11:02pm

Yorker wrote: »

if they showed you his footage is that breach if data protection?

What data is being breached exactly? The guy was falsely accused of something he didn't do, I think the that merits him being allowed to view the footage to clear himself and possibly identify the plonker that had to neck to falsely give his name.

carzony · 19-11-2014 12:12am

Yorker wrote: »

if they showed you his footage is that breach if data protection?

only in Ireland would someone feel sorry for the thief.

Rubber_Soul · 19-11-2014 3:15am

carzony wrote: »

only in Ireland would someone feel sorry for the thief.

I don't see anyone doing that though. I see someone asking a question as to the legality of the situation, on a legal discussion forum.

Grab All Association · 19-11-2014 3:25am

After he gets the fine. Garda station make a complaint.

Zambia · 19-11-2014 8:08am

Maybe I'm mad but isn't the onus to prove I'd on the prosecution?

secondrowgal · 19-11-2014 9:35am

Yorker wrote: »

if they showed you his footage is that breach if data protection?

I don't think this is exactly the same thing, but here is a story about a law suit where a pharmacy showed CCTV footage to someone other than the person involved and got sued as a result:

Link

I understand that the OP was trying to prove it wasn't them, but surely IR could see that from the footage without actually showing it to the OP and thereby letting them know who the culprit is??

Not for one minute saying what the neighbour did was ok, it was scummy in fact, but surely it's up to IR to find/prosecute the (alleged) guilty party and not give out other people's details?

plodder · 19-11-2014 9:40am

Yorker wrote: »

if they showed you his footage is that breach if data protection?

CCTV footage definitely comes under the ambit of data protection as in this recent case. [edit] I see previous post got there first .

The big thing about data protection is whether the data is used for the intended purpose, and the case above, turned out not to be, even though the business was actually conned into providing it.

For this case here, it is clearly being used for the intended purpose, which includes investigation of fare evasion.

Grolschevik · 19-11-2014 9:49am

plodder wrote: »

probably reasonable enough up to about 15 years ago, when digital cameras became very common. It's almost hard to believe that an inspector doesn't have a digital camera (phone) on them at least.

It was the revenue protection officer at Pearse last year.

I had to have him rousted out of his office so I could inform him that I had had no option but to travel without a valid ticket and that I now wished to pay...

Iarnrod Eireann fine.. wasnt me

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