The fact that BBC is not on Saorview (except in overspill areas).

endakenny

icdg said in post 55 of the UTV Ireland launch thread:

The MOU sadly is a bit of a one way street. The Government's goal seems to have been to get RTE & TG4 on NI DTT and it got that seemingly without having to give anything in return (or the British seemingly didn't want anything in return). There was also the saga where the initial version with the reciprocal arrangements was pulled within days, seemingly at the behest of UPC, and replaced with the version with the status quo instead. So there's nothing in it for us in the Republic, it's all about getting RTE into the North really.

Why should the Memorandum of Understanding have been expected to have BBC domestic channels, which are broadcast intentionally for the UK audience, available on Saorview?

It's inaccurate to describe the MoU as a one-way street because the BBC and RTÉ are not funded in exactly the same way: the BBC's domestic services are funded by a licence fee but RTÉ is funded by a licence fee and commercial revenue.

Furthermore, RTÉ has a remit to cover the island of Ireland. The BBC has a remit for its domestic channels to cover Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands only.

Many viewers in NI receive Saorview via overspill. The NI mux that carries TG4 and the SD versions of RTÉ are designed to make those channels available to the majority of terrestrial viewers in Northern Ireland. It is possible that RTÉ uses some of its commercial revenue (and maybe a small part of the licence fee) to fund the operation of the mux. Furthermore, the NI mux is not available on the relay transmitters of NI. Terrestrial viewers in NI who are reliant on the relay transmitters can use Saorsat or, if they have plenty of money, Sky.

It would be impossible to carry BBC UK channels on the Republic's terrestrial network except on a subscription basis. Besides, most people in the Republic who want access to the BBC can use Freesat or, if they're on the Border or in the south-east, terrestrial overspill.

Therefore, there is nothing sad about the MoU.

Elmo

BBC would have to pay to be on Saorview and bbc worldwide would have to agree, I can't see it happening.

Also it was only in relation to BBC NI channels.

BBC has a commercial component to it BTW

dublinman1990

Yes. Terrestrial viewers in NI can receive RTE and TG4 services. However it is only available to viewers in NI only with Freeview HD equipment which is an MPEG-4 decoded specification for the UK market i.e. the same spec that is on Saorview in the ROI.

This is because Saorview uses MPEG-4 decoders to broadcast some of their current channels in HD. That would mean that those with Freeview SD boxes or TV's in the North would lose out because the equipment they're using with the MPEG-2 spec is not HD compatible.

We are also very lucky to have combi-boxes/TV's (of which some of these are enabled with Freesat mode) on the Irish Market which can allow Saorview to pair up with Free to Air satellite so it can transmit BBC/ITV/UTV/Channel 4 from the Astra 28.2E.

UPDATE

I agree with Elmo that the BBC have a commercial operation with includes BBC Worldwide and also BBC Global News ltd, BBC Studios & post production.

Thurston?

BBC is not available on Saorview ANYWHERE. It's on Freeview, of which the DVB-T channels at least are receivable by all Saorview equipment.

endakenny wrote: »

Furthermore, the NI mux is not available on the relay transmitters of NI.

Carnmoney Hill is a relay transmitter. (1 only, I know.)

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Yes. Terrestrial viewers in NI can receive RTE and TG4 services. However it is only available to viewers in NI only with Freeview HD equipment which is an MPEG-4 decoded specification for the UK market i.e. the same spec that is on Saorview in the ROI.

This is because Saorview uses MPEG-4 decoders to broadcast some of their current channels in HD. That would mean that those with Freeview SD boxes or TV's in the North would lose out because the equipment they're using with the MPEG-2 spec is not HD compatible.

The Saorview spec. has nothing at all to do with the choice of DVB-T2 & MPEG4 for the Freeview NI mux.

endakenny

Thurston? wrote: »

BBC is not available on Saorview ANYWHERE.

What I meant was that viewers in the Republic on the Border and in the south-east can pick up overspill from NI and Wales on their Saorview boxes.

Thurston? wrote: »

Carnmoney Hill is a relay transmitter. (1 only, I know.)

I'm aware that the UK commercial muxes are not available on the relay transmitters. Isn't the NImux, although it's run on a non-profit basis, a commercial mux?

Thurston?

endakenny wrote: »

What I meant was that viewers in the Republic on the Border and in the south-east can pick up overspill from NI and Wales on their Saorview boxes.

I know what you meant, but shouldn't the thread title actually say what you mean?

endakenny wrote: »

I'm aware that the UK commercial muxes are not available on the relay transmitters. Isn't the NImux, although it's run on a non-profit basis, a commercial mux?

From the document attached below:

Multiplex Broadcasting Services N. I. Limited is a not-for-profit Joint Venture (JV) formed by RTÉ and TG4 to operate a seventh multiplex (‘NI Mux’) from three transmitting stations in Northern Ireland.

Also, some of the UK 'relay' stations with large population coverage do carry the commercial muxes.

watty

BBC was never going to be on Saorview.
Overspill is a fact of life since 1950s (UK to here) and since 1962 (Even an Evesham cable system was fed with off air RTE).

Belgian TV sets had 2 kinds of 819 and a 625 standard for overspill reception. That's partly why by 1970s the Belgian Barco was an expert in Multistandard professsional monitors and semi-professional AV/TVs

Richard

icdg wrote: »

The MOU sadly is a bit of a one way street. The Government's goal seems to have been to get RTE & TG4 on NI DTT and it got that seemingly without having to give anything in return

RTE is IMHO on NI DTT for two reasons. Firstly, political. The Irish government wants RTE to be an all-Ireland broadcaster. That has always been the goal. Secondly, RTE gets advertising revenue from NI, so much so that an NI advertising region will launch in the future. TG4 is on Freeview for the same reasons, plus the GFA mentions TnaG.

None of those reasons apply to the BBC, which makes money from their channels being on Sky Ireland and cable, but would get no advertising revenue from being on Saorview.

BBC WW could put some of their commercial channels on Saorview and make money that way, but large scale overspill into NI of BBC programming containing adverts would be the stumbling block.

watty

Richard wrote: »

R
BBC WW could put some of their commercial channels on Saorview and make money that way, but large scale overspill into NI of BBC programming containing adverts would be the stumbling block.

No, it would cost much more than it would make. If this was feasible they would do it already on Satellite at 1/20th of cost. But they already do it on Satellite Pay TV in markets where it's profitable.

formerly scottish paddy

Richard wrote: »

RTE is IMHO on NI DTT for two reasons. Firstly, political. The Irish government wants RTE to be an all-Ireland broadcaster. That has always been the goal.

It is in RTÉ's remit that it, as far as possible, provide it's services on an all Ireland basis, and this existed long before the MoU with the British Government. RTÉ gets very little advertising money from N.Ireland, it maybe looking at attracting more, but this would barely cover costs of running the NIMM on Freeview. Compared with the amount of Irish advertising money taken out of this country by the likes of SKY, Channel 4, and UTV (soon to be boosted by UTV I), RTÉ's take in NI would be miniscule!

Elmo

formerly scottish paddy wrote: »

It is in RTÉ's remit that it, as far as possible, provide it's services on an all Ireland basis, and this existed long before the MoU with the British Government. RTÉ gets very little advertising money from N.Ireland, it maybe looking at attracting more, but this would barely cover costs of running the NIMM on Freeview. Compared with the amount of Irish advertising money taken out of this country by the likes of SKY, Channel 4, and UTV (soon to be boosted by UTV I), RTÉ's take in NI would be miniscule!

I'd agree with the DG of RTÉ who put the figure at €3million per year, nothing major but if they can push a Norn Iron programmes, they might gain a bigger audience there.