What courses in leinster lead to a mangement contract on graduation?

romakarol

Hey all,
I am curently a 6th year student, I've had summer jobs, and am currently researching courses. This is very difficult for me (just look at my post history ) because I don't like programming, maths, accounting or physics/chemistry so that cuts me off from a Lot of careers.

I did come across one course I really liked- business studies in international hotel management (shannon college of hotel management). From what I heard the moment you are finished the four year bachelors you get snapped up in one of the international hotel chains you did your apprenticeship in. I like that simple progressive principle of degree-trainee managing-career progression, but the course is too far away for me to attend it feasably.

Could anyone suggest universities that hold courses held in similar regard by employers? That lead to:
A) contract on graduation, in some sort of managerial position
provided by a university in the leinster area (ie dublin)
C) isn't entirely based on accounting, programming or non-biology sciences

The_Conductor

I don't mean to burst your bubble- but its incredibly rare to walk into a Management Contract on graduation- irrespective of what course or qualifications you hold. You need experience to backup your qualifications- you need to be able to show you have what it takes to do the job. A piece of paper will only get you so far- it will not get you the job- the ability to show your skills and how you have applied them in similar situations- is key.

I know you're talking about hotel management as an example- however, it is cut-throat in that industry- you will not walk into a management position- if you show you are a hard worker, and willing to learn- despite your apprenticeship- you will progress- however, you'll be competing against numerous colleagues.

One course that came to mind when reading your post- was the Lidl Management Degrees- you are a Lidl employee- you work throughout your course, so you have an income- and you attend college mostly in the evening- over the 4 year period, until you earn your degree. Ultimately you would be an assistant manager- and if the opportunity for promotion arose, you'd be manager of a store- with a look-in on area manager/regional manager/national manager posts- as they come up.

I think sitting down with a careers guidance teacher- or indeed doing some psychometric testing to measure your specific aptitudes- may be helpful for you- you seem to be flailing a little at the moment.

Best wishes with your choices.

romakarol

I did plenty of those tests, primaraly centigrade. Ultimately it didn't tell me much I don't know about myself-just gave me the idea to search courses I never considered before. Hotel catering came first for me, education second. However I don't fancy doing a masters (extra time and money spent) so education is off my list.

I've talked with my career guidance counsellor. He told me about the shannon course (I was considering the same course in DIT, but apparently its not on the same level employment-wise according to him). I think he knew what he was talking about regarding the shannon course, he offered to put me in contact with a past pupil who did the same course.

I considered the lidld degree before. It seemed perfect- plenty of internship work, payed, great graduate prospects. However I read about lidl online from many sources and apparently they are horrible. In a nutshell: give you so much work you have to work way past your payed hours, and find a reason to fire you if you don't. Maybe someone working in lidl can confirm or deny this?

Maybe I wouldn't have a problem working overtime, after all the salary is still good and you get a car, but I'm afraid of ending up working in a **** company and having a uselss degree otherwise (not sure how much competitors acredit a lidld degree, it's not CAO).

romakarol

The_Conductor wrote: »

I don't mean to burst your bubble- but its incredibly rare to walk into a Management Contract on graduation- irrespective of what course or qualifications you hold. You need experience to backup your qualifications- you need to be able to show you have what it takes to do the job. A piece of paper will only get you so far- it will not get you the job- the ability to show your skills and how you have applied them in similar situations- is key.

Best wishes with your choices.

Could you please elaborate a bit on this for me? Why exactly is it rare to walk into management on graduation? You do a course for it, if its a good course you have done a lenghty internship. How else are you going to get more experience unless you are actually employed as a trainee manager?

Whatever its worth-I will have 6 years of part time work in mostly unrelated fields by the time I'll graduate, and I am a fluent speaker in Russian (studying Spanish).

Beaner1

You need to to actually do something before managing.

I wouldn't aspire to being a manager either. It's not a great job.

Humour Me

In order to be a manager, you need to have an excellent understanding of the area you are responsible for. Most employers believe that the only way to understand the role is to have experience doing it yourself.

Where I work there is a progression from Admin to team leader to a manager. You spend a few years as an admin learning the ins and outs of the role then apply to be a team leader and manage a team of admins. If a manager role appears, the majority of the team leaders will apply for it.

Managers have a huge responsibility for managing the goals and resources (including people) of their area or department. The senior managers will always want to give the role to someone who they are familiar with and who understands the needs of the business.

If you were to apply for a management role after finishing your education, you will be competing with team leaders and managers who can all point to years of practical experience and knowledge that that they have built up. No college course will ever compete with that.

If you are determined that you want to be a manager, then the Aldi/ Lidl graduate programs could suit. But to be honest, you are better off finding an area that you are interested in and developing a career from that. If you are good at what you do, you are more likely to move up the career ladder and could end up in a management role that way.

The_Conductor

If you have fluent Russian, reasonable Spanish, and good English- there are a myriad of linguistic options open to you- from software localisation (which does not involve coding) to quality control in a number of different industries- to more traditional call-centre type jobs.

I graduated almost 20 years ago- into a market where unemployment was rife- and felt I had good qualifications- but found I had to fall back on my language skills to get a job. It was a dull drudge- but I used it as a stepping stone- and ended up in a reasonable position in the company within a few years, before I left.

Yes- I had done apprenticeships (in Germany and Ireland) and had a few job offers (which I wasn't really considering because of where they were- the location didn't suit at all).

I had experience managing small teams of people- for better or worse- but it wasn't something that had openings in it (not all that different from the hotel industry here to be honest with you).

Yes- the Lidl degree course involves a lot of hard-work, however, you get to apply your knowledge to your job on a daily basis, which reinforces your skills and hones you as a manager.

The car is nice (I'm not sure if they're still giving out Audi A3s- but they used).

The hours are long- but they are rewarding.

If you think most people get away with working 9 to 5- 5 days a week, and are rewarded handsomely for it- that is not how the world works.

I've chosen to remain in junior management for among other reasons- poor health. I have received calls on a Sunday afternoon telling me to be on a 7AM flight the following morning- and when I'm away from the office, I often have my desk phone forwarded to my mobile, even over holiday periods. This is how many many people work.

For you- if you have the language skills you state- and you're happy to use them- it would seem to me that the easiest and happiest medium- would be to find a job where your specific skills that you wish to use are valued.

patspost

Hotel management, especially a junior role involves long hours and hard work, especially at weekends. Does this appeal to you?
Have you had a summer job in a bar or restraunt?

Are you currently involved with any team at school or sports club?
Do you enjoy being leader?

A general Business studies course could be good for you and after a couple of years of it you might find an area you like eg Marketing or whatever.



All the best with your future.

Safran

Lidl is not a terrible employer. It is very, very demanding, phisicall work in a fast paced environment. Long hours are often involved, early mornings and late nights, a lot of pressure and responsibility. Not everyone is able or that. The degree does offer you a great level of experience and having it on your CV is priceless in my opinion.
I have a good friend who has two masters degrees (one of which in a bussiness field) and she still works in a call centre. Nothing wrong with working in a call centre by the way, but it shows that without relevant experience you cannot secure a senior position, or it is very rare.

romakarol

Thanks for all the suggestions and advice. To answer some q's:

Conductor/Patpost: I have 0 problem with any workload, so long as it is paid appropriately. But from what I read about lidl they force you into ths in a very underhanded way, and the extra hours you end up working aren't paid. If however, their salary and benefits are good, that could be "payment" of a sort. I searched long ago if they were good to work for and everything on the first page of results was mediocre-negative opinions. After reading this I stopped digging: google "lidl shop of horrors".

Heck though if you say the degree is well recognised, and there is plenty work experience, and you do get payed-why not. The degree itself might be useful even if I decide to quit the company (assuming I get an offer). What do you think?

Patpost: I have worked over the 3 month summer holiday in Tayto Park aged 16 (summer 2013) and same again aged 17 (this summer). Work was very demading IMO but pay was decent and I got to get experience in a LOT of areas. Operating most of the rides, emphasis customer service, handling cash/stock (aka selling ice cream), using a till etc etc.

Patpost: I was in the school chess club, took part in a school musical last year (as a giftless chorus), and another one (this one was smaller so those who passed auditions, myself included, got a main role- Belcher from GoTN if you're interested). Also played on the rugby/tennis teams on and off. Dropped everything this year-it being 6th. Never took anything too close to heart.

Yes I like being the leader. However I am possibly a bad one in that I'm completely power mad and unsubtle about it -No Aragorns here my friends. I feel like I would be a good leader given the chance, but I don't for aforementioned reasons (wasn't popular enough when I ran for student council), except for when I wrestle leadership from an impromptou group made for class projects or whatever-group presentations were my forte mainly by just stealing the spotlight and being good at what I was doing and making sure no one messed it up. But that is like-the opposite of leadership (upside down pyramid?).

Maybe seeking managerial positions is some reaction to my need to prove to others I could kick ass given a team that did what I said, and did it competantly.

...

Thanks again all. I will certainly take away the thought of progressing along the career ladder more softly- maybe working in a summer job made me lose faith in hard work being rewarded by promotions or raises.

Ill look into this software localisaton deal. Also would love to get more feedback on lidl from anyone that has ever worked there/knows anyone who did.

Safran

"Being given a team who does what I say" is more less an opposite to being a good manager. A good manager is often being given an incompetent bunch of people, who require much more than simple training. He makes them.a team. Not to prove himself to anyone, but for the sake of everyone in the team. That is in ny humble opinion something you learn through experience rather than anything any course can teach you.
I would never ever dream of hiring a manger who never actually managed people.

Anyway, you are asking about Lidl. Lets say, without going into too much detail, I honestly believe it is a good shot. I am not sure what is the contact for students like, but managers sign a contract for 48h and, yes, if they go above they are not getting extra payment. Saying that the company makes sure you are not going over those hours on a weekly basis and you are usually scheduled to work for around 43h.
The company culture has changed a lot in recent years.
Let me however advise you that it is a VERY VERY hard and pressurised job, where every minute counts. You would be expected to learn from grass root level - from packing out pallets, cleaning, etc. Whatever you do before Lidl is most likely hard to compare to it.

romakarol

Thanks Safran. Do you currently work as a store manager-that's the vibe I'm getting. Regarding dealing with incompetent people- maybe its different in store management since most people working in lidl I presume would be unqualified youths without experience/migration workers. But generally wouldn't you recruit professional people-perhaps in more high end industries?

P.s just noticed, welcome to the boards.

The_Conductor

By the way- being a manager is not 'kicking ass' as you put it. Its utilising the staff assigned to you, to the best of their abilities, to attain your desired outcome- mindful of your rights and obligations towards them, as their manager. It can be a mine field at times. Being a manager- is not just cracking a whip- yes, you need to get the job done- but you also need to be mindful of your staff at all times.

Why are you ruling out using your language skills? Someone with Russian, English and Spanish- sounds highly employable- indeed, with this language combination you could almost dictate your own terms.

As a stop gap measure- I'd suggest contacting one (or more) of the recruitment agencies- and sitting down with them and enrolling on their books. A few short term contracts in different industries- might give you a broader view of what opportunities are out there- and you might also find an area that you haven't previously considered that you like?

Safran

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I would prefer not to disclose my employer details. But I know quite a bit about Lidl.

Most of employees are actually people working there for several years. With relatively high hour rate people tend to stick to their job.

And most managers start as packers/cashiers and get gradually promoted. I like and respect that model.

No, I cannot imagine a (retail) position for which i would hire someone without relevant experience. No matter what degree they could produce. But I am talking about retail only, it is, I suppose, different if you have a masters degree in mathematics...

dudara

There's a difference between being a leader and being a manager. Many people can exhibit leadership qualities at any stage in their career. Management ability typically comes with experience and is a bit more of a science.

Expecting to start in management is potentially unrealistic. Aim instead for a good career where there are good prospects for high performers.

Nekarsulm

romakarol wrote: »

Thanks Safran. Do you currently work as a store manager-that's the vibe I'm getting. Regarding dealing with incompetent people- maybe its different in store management since most people working in lidl I presume would be unqualified youths without experience/migration workers. But generally wouldn't you recruit professional people-perhaps in more high end industries?

P.s just noticed, welcome to the boards.

Sadly for you, I think you will find thst most if the "migrant workers" employed in Lidl have much better qualifications than you do! Nothing I have read so far points to you having any emphaty for your fellow workers, nor understanding of the real challenges of working your eay up to a managerial position.

romakarol

Thanks for all the advice and warnings.

@conductor: bit confused- what makes you think I am ignoring my languages? Do you mean I should pursue a career directly relating to them like interpreting or localisation? I'll certainly look into it, I'm not saying I definitely want to seek a managerial role- my mind is changing all the time atm. I said I wasn't interested in programming yesterday morning and by night I'm convinced that's what I wan't to do-all I'm doing is exploring my options I suppose.

Nekarsulm: i was mainly refferencing to the language barrier many of even the most qualified migrant workers have. Don't make me out to be too stereotypical- I myself am from a migrant family+social sphere, but I suppose as shop staff that doesn't make a big difference (in most positions). Sorry if I'm coming across as completely rude/unsuitable- I'm just being completely open to see if I am suitale for this. Obviously I'm more considerate in a work environment.

lcstress2012

Guys does anyone know, when applying for this retail management degree, do you have to be already an employee of LIDL or do they give you a job in a LIDL store once you start studying in DBS?

A bit confused because I'm going to apply next year. I currently work in retail and would love a career in retail management !

Thanks!

Safran

You don't have to be an employee.