Working on a Sunday/Holocaust

gary gary

One thing that my brain will not accept about religion is the stories of hell.
If you commit sin, you are banished to an eternity of blazing hell fire.

But what about people who open their corner shop for a few hours on a Sunday morning or people who clean out their garden sheds and do not keep holy the Sabbath day.

Are they destined to the same hell fires as someone like Hitler who commited mass murders in the cruelest of fashions?

It just seems ridiculous.Also, are people who commit suicide from being born in to situations of hopelessness and sickness and are desperate to escape destined to end up in hell with the most evil and sinful people we know of?

Its that logic, among other things, that stop me from being able to accept religion.

Any insight on this matter will be much appreciated.

Skrynesaver

Perhaps logic is the wrong tool with which to approach religious belief

Peregrinus

gary gary wrote: »

Its that logic, among other things, that stop me from being able to accept religion.

Well, if it's logic you're after, logically your inability to accept certain teachings is only an impediment to accepting religions which profess those teachings.

Which, I think it's safe to say, does not include any of the major religions that we are familiar with in Ireland.

lazybones32

Christianity isn't about Laws and Rules; it's about Jesus and the transformation in the believer's life because of Jesus.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

People mistakenly believe Christianity is all about a vengeful God who can't wait to crush us over the smallest thing but I've found God to be as gentle as a pussycat. And trust me, I have not been a good boy.

Brian Shanahan

lazybones32 wrote: »

Christianity isn't about Laws and Rules; it's about Jesus and the transformation in the believer's life because of Jesus.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

People mistakenly believe Christianity is all about a vengeful God who can't wait to crush us over the smallest thing but I've found God to be as gentle as a pussycat. And trust me, I have not been a good boy.

So the bible and "god" contained therein is a fake then? Because every single word of the bible contradicts your assertion (not that it matters two unevidenced positions have the same value of truth)

@Op it seems ridiculous because it is. Religion is about control, and the eadiest way to ensure contol is to set up ridiculous precepts and see if they are believed and kept.

Manach

Deliberate caricature is so very easy to argue. To wilfully stuff a strawman full of the mispresentations of notions that are dreamed up by a concept's opponents is an excellent way to engage in soapbox rhetoric than to actually try and understand the doctrine under attack.
Like any societal mechanism that is attached to institution there are various degrees and inclinations of how wrong behaviour can be both judged, measured and ultimately resolved. To ascribe all sin as equal (venial or other) or in some why deserving of the same punishment is to ignore the centuries of careful and rational debate that has been part of the magistarium of the Church. This has developed from Christ's teaching and actions on Calvary where there are innumerate chances to live a better life. So to paraphrase the lay philosopher Buckey on this, If one does not deserve to go to Hell, then that is not your destination.

lazybones32

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

So the bible and "god" contained therein is a fake then? Because every single word of the bible contradicts your assertion (not that it matters two unevidenced positions have the same value of truth)

You do know my second para. is from the Bible...

keano_afc

Brian Shanahan wrote: »

So the bible and "god" contained therein is a fake then? Because every single word of the bible contradicts your assertion (not that it matters two unevidenced positions have the same value of truth)

@Op it seems ridiculous because it is. Religion is about control, and the eadiest way to ensure contol is to set up ridiculous precepts and see if they are believed and kept.

Can you expand on this?

homer911

Hi Gary

Great questions and even better that you are asking them

gary gary wrote: »

One thing that my brain will not accept about religion is the stories of hell.
If you commit sin, you are banished to an eternity of blazing hell fire.

The Bible tells us that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, therefore as God is pure and holy, we can only join him in Heaven if we are redeemed in some way - by accepting the Lord Jesus and his gift of grace

But what about people who open their corner shop for a few hours on a Sunday morning or people who clean out their garden sheds and do not keep holy the Sabbath day.
Are they destined to the same hell fires as someone like Hitler who
commited mass murders in the cruelest of fashions?

God is a God of Love - he commands us to love him and love our neighbours. Even Jesus worked on the sabbath by healing the sick. Working on the sabbath does not commit you to hell - we condemn ourselves to hell unless we repent our sinful natures

It just seems ridiculous.Also, are people who commit suicide from being born in to situations of hopelessness and sickness and are desperate to escape destined to end up in hell with the most evil and sinful people we know of?

If they have not accepted the gift of God's grace, then they are as sinful and unredeemed as anyone else.

The thing is that salvation is a very simple message - its so simple in fact that people keep thinking there must be more to it than this. The fact is that accepting salvation and all it means is both the easiest thing and the hardest thing for people to do, because its about a change of heart - we have to accept our own sinfulness, accept that we can never match up to God's standard and accept the wonderful gift of grace that he has given us through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ

Festus

gary gary wrote: »

One thing that my brain will not accept about religion is the stories of hell.
If you commit sin, you are banished to an eternity of blazing hell fire.

That's an oversimplification that is not entirely true. If you die with unrepented mortal sins on your soul then you have rejected God and hence are choosing Hell.

gary gary wrote: »

But what about people who open their corner shop for a few hours on a Sunday morning or people who clean out their garden sheds and do not keep holy the Sabbath day.

What about people who work a few hours on a Sunday and do keep the day Holy? Is it not possible to do both?

gary gary wrote: »

Are they destined to the same hell fires as someone like Hitler who commited mass murders in the cruelest of fashions?

Dante is not a recognised visionary so his description while worthy of consideration for its artistic qualities may not be divinely inspired so we work with the information we have from Scripture and Christ. There is one Hell, or Gehenna, as Jesus called it. It is an eternal unquenchable fire with worms in it and it contains the souls of the damned, demons, fallen angels and Lucifer.

To be honest I don't think anyone there is that bothered with who they're sharing their final destination with. I think they'll be too preoccupied with either venting their hatred of God or trying to figure out why they rejected reason when they had the chance to accept it rather than the logical truth of hell's existence which is for them now a reality.

gary gary wrote: »

It just seems ridiculous.Also, are people who commit suicide from being born in to situations of hopelessness and sickness and are desperate to escape destined to end up in hell with the most evil and sinful people we know of?

We all have our crosses to bear and some crosses may appear to be more difficult or burdensome than others. However, Jesus does not assign crosses that we cannot bear. Bear in mind that this life is but a short transitional testing ground. Those who choose suicide over bearing their crosses are ultimately rejecting God.

gary gary wrote: »

Its that logic, among other things, that stop me from being able to accept religion.

Any insight on this matter will be much appreciated.

My first insight is that there are many reasons why people reject God and I suspect many, if not all, go through an exercise of justifying their choice.
Accepting God is easy, rejecting God takes a little effort.
Having accepted God, avoiding Hell is as simple as avoiding sin. For those who reject God avoiding sin becomes a more complex operation.

The question then remains - where do souls who reject God go when they die? They cannot go to Heaven.

My second insight is that when certain concepts of Christian belief are presented in an overly simplified manner one should proceed with caution.

So I now cautiously simplify things further.

Hell exists. We know this to be true because Jesus mentions Hell in a number of verses.

Souls who reject God go to hell.

logically people who reject the concept of a real hell are rejecting God because He told us that hell exists and souls go there.

Hence it is reasonable to conclude that people who do not believe in hell will when they get there.

Brian Shanahan

keano_afc wrote: »

Can you expand on this?

This is going to be quick because I'm on the phone and browser has a nastyhabit of crashing (it already ate one reply).
Second commandment, Exodus 34:14, the constant threats of eternal damnation in the new testament (damnation being an idea the christians stole of Greekmytho/religion) for all nin-believers or even questioners whether they heard the soi disant good news or not.

Two asides:
1 A proper reading of the old testament show the henotheistic (google it) nature of judaism until at least the return from Babylon (the torah not having been written down until then)
2 By rights christianity should be designated polytheistic, wit its two or three (depending on sect) co-equal gods.

If I remember I'll do a more thorough job when I'm nexton the desktop.

Berserker

gary gary wrote: »

If you commit sin, you are banished to an eternity of blazing hell fire.

Where did you hear this? What pastor, priest etc told you this? Religion is based on faith, not logic.

J C

gary gary wrote: »

One thing that my brain will not accept about religion is the stories of hell.
If you commit sin, you are banished to an eternity of blazing hell fire.

Who told you that?
We are all sinners ... and as Jesus Christ came to Save us we are not all going to Hell ... despite the fact that we are all sinners.

gary gary wrote: »

But what about people who open their corner shop for a few hours on a Sunday morning or people who clean out their garden sheds and do not keep holy the Sabbath day.

I think it is a good temporal idea to keep Sunday special ... as a rest from the everyday cares and toils of the rest of the week and as an opportunity to attend church.
However, people have to work to provide essential services and opening a corner shop on Sundays is not sinful.

gary gary wrote: »

Are they destined to the same hell fires as someone like Hitler who commited mass murders in the cruelest of fashions?

We cannot judge anybodies eternal destiny ... it all depends on whether they choose Jesus or Satan ... just like the choice that Adam and Eve were faced with ... and they 'flunked it'.

gary gary wrote: »

It just seems ridiculous.Also, are people who commit suicide from being born in to situations of hopelessness and sickness and are desperate to escape destined to end up in hell with the most evil and sinful people we know of?

Again, we cannot judge their eternal destiny ... as this is a matter strictly between themselves and Jesus Christ.

J C

Berserker wrote: »

Where did you hear this? What pastor, priest etc told you this? Religion is based on faith, not logic.

Nobody has to leave their brain outside any church ... Religion is based on both reason and faith.

As Albert Einstein once said "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."