Car insurance - open claim at renewal

kilp10

My insurance is up for renewal but there is an open claim on it. There is no liability on my side whatsoever and I am expecting the Garda report when released to confirm this. However, the third party insurance are delaying in accepting liability.

I received my renewal notice, as expected it's been loaded due to an open claim. However, when I questioned whether I would get a refund on the premium when the claim would be determined as a 'no fault', they said no, they don't issue refunds...but my premium would go down next year. But that means, I pay a penalty for an accident that is not my fault and they get to keep money they're not really entitled to once liability is assigned in my favour without having to refund it??

Then I asked, can I have a quote for what my premium would have been without this accident as I need to be able to reclaim the gap from somewhere, either from them (which they say they don't do refunds) or via a claim against the third party. They said no, they can't do this either.

I'm waiting on a call from their Manager as it's obviously above the person on the phone's level. Just wondering, where do I stand with this? I need to know this gap from somewhere...

Can they legally deny a refund if an accident is deemed not to be your fault and they have loaded the policy initially as if it was?
And surely they need to let the person know what the gap between what it would have been versus what is being quoted so that they can claim it via some means?

Any help/ advice appreciated.

goz83

You might be snookered here OP. I was in an accident in April and the liability was admitted by the other parties insurer right away, as it was a classic read ending when I was stationary. My renewal was August and everywhere I rang for quotes told me that an open claim, regardless of blame would have a negative impact on my premium. My quotes were coming in twice and three times what they would be. So, even though liability had been admitted and the property claim had been settled, they were loading my policy as there was, or would be in the future, an open claim for personal injury. Ludicrous, but true. Insurers are getting worse.

whippet

if I were you i'd factor in the cost of the loading in your claim against the other policy.

kilp10

Well, I just had a call back from the person I was talking to yesterday and she said she was given wrong information, I would be entitled to a refund once/if the claim is deemed 'no fault'. But still couldn't tell me how much that difference is.

But at least that makes more sense now. I could not figure out why an insurance company would be entitled to hold on to a loading once the claim was closed in my favour and not have to refund it...

Car accidents cause way too much stress in all sorts of ways.

fearghalcotter

OP, have you paid the premium they stated already? Did you make or are intending on making a claim with your insurance company in relation to this accident? I know I was in an accident last year which wasn't my fault but it was still "open" at time of renewal and you wouldn't believe the hassle I had to go through in order to get by it. Daily phone calls for 2 weeks leading up to renewal date, constant putting us on the long finger telling us they would call us back by a certain time- only to have to ring them again. With a full time job, I had to give the insurers my fathers details and permission for him to tackle them when I wasn't available. Honestly if I hadn't of had that support I would have ended up paying over double what I am now! No harm in pricing around also, you owe no loyalty to an insurance company.

kilp10

fearghalcotter wrote: »

OP, have you paid the premium they stated already?.

No, haven't paid it yet, but it's all happening today...just received news the other side have accepted liability. The relief is unbelievable...

goz83

kilp10 wrote: »

No, haven't paid it yet, but it's all happening today...just received news the other side have accepted liability. The relief is unbelievable...

So, does that settle the entire claim, or will there be an injury claim? That's what messed me up at renewal.

kilp10

goz83 wrote: »

So, does that settle the entire claim, or will there be an injury claim? That's what messed me up at renewal.

It closes it off on my side and on my insurance, anything else if it happens goes through the other side. Seeing as the third party has accepted liability, they cannot bring a PI claim against my insurance. If the insurance companies had decided to split the liability or the claim remained open for another few months, then in theory there would be a risk of the third party bringing a PI claim. But not the case now.

Little CuChulainn

I very much doubt there will be a Garda report clearing you of liability. It would be the first of its kind I have heard about. The Gardaí will not make decisions on liability issues, only potential legislation breaches.

kilp10

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I very much doubt there will be a Garda report clearing you of liability. It would be the first of its kind I have heard about. The Gardaí will not make decisions on liability issues, only potential legislation breaches.

Correct they do not have any influence in an insurance company battling out liability. Civil versus criminal are completely separate. However, on the criminal side, if they prosecute the other side, then that's determining who's at fault...

goz83

kilp10 wrote: »

It closes it off on my side and on my insurance, anything else if it happens goes through the other side. Seeing as the third party has accepted liability, they cannot bring a PI claim against my insurance. If the insurance companies had decided to split the liability or the claim remained open for another few months, then in theory there would be a risk of the third party bringing a PI claim. But not the case now.

Sorry, but i'm not totally clear. i understand that the other side has accepted liability and will cover property damages. But, it's not clear if you intend to put in a PI claim against the other side.

My point earlier, was that an open claim, regardless of liability being admitted, meant that my premium had increased via a loading. I would have thought it was an anomoly, but i rang a good few insurers and brokers, including Axa, FBD and AA. All were loading my policy even though the other side had accepted liability and had paid out for my written off car. 3 months later, i was renewing and told them that there would be a PI claim and that liability was accepted, explaining the whole situation, but it mattered not one bit.

hullaballoo

Without getting bogged down in technicalities, AGS have no jurisdiction to determine anything. I'm just pointing this out because the only body capable of determining fault is the court, be it civil or criminal, judge or jury.

In theory, a person convicted in a criminal sense may still be able to successfully defend a civil action arising from the same incident.

kilp10

hullaballoo wrote: »

Without getting bogged down in technicalities, AGS have no jurisdiction to determine anything. I'm just pointing this out because the only body capable of determining fault is the court, be it civil or criminal, judge or jury.

Ah yes, now I get you fully. Yes you would be correct on that one, keeping to technicalities :-)

hullaballoo wrote: »

In theory, a person convicted in a criminal sense may still be able to successfully defend a civil action arising from the same incident.

Again, correct. Thankfully, civil side sorted, criminal side - yet unknown

kilp10

goz83 wrote: »

Sorry, but i'm not totally clear. i understand that the other side has accepted liability and will cover property damages. But, it's not clear if you intend to put in a PI claim against the other side.

My point earlier, was that an open claim, regardless of liability being admitted, meant that my premium had increased via a loading. I would have thought it was an anomoly, but i rang a good few insurers and brokers, including Axa, FBD and AA. All were loading my policy even though the other side had accepted liability and had paid out for my written off car. 3 months later, i was renewing and told them that there would be a PI claim and that liability was accepted, explaining the whole situation, but it mattered not one bit.

I'm a bit confused as to why you putting in a PI claim against a third party insurance would have affected your policy once the liability was assigned to the other side and your side closed. Were you putting in a PI claim against your own insurance? Didn't think that was possible.

Initially, I claimed for my car replacement via my insurance company to speed things through and while liability was not determined. My insurance company then had to approach the other to recover costs. Third party insurance has now accepted liability and will pay my insurance company back any costs they paid out to me. This closes the claim at my end. However, the third party insurance will probably leave it open at their end due to the potential of me submitting a PI claim within the next two years. Not going to say here whether that is the case or not. But a future PI claim against the third party has no bearing on my insurance from this point on.

I'm surprised it would have affected your policy that way if liability was assigned to the other side and you were a 'no fault'... Or did you maybe lose part of your NCB that affected it instead?

It's all such a complicated thing but you have to be on the ball with them :-(

goz83

kilp10 wrote: »

I'm a bit confused as to why you putting in a PI claim against a third party insurance would have affected your policy once the liability was assigned to the other side and your side closed. Were you putting in a PI claim against your own insurance? Didn't think that was possible.

Initially, I claimed for my car replacement via my insurance company to speed things through and while liability was not determined. My insurance company then had to approach the other to recover costs. Third party insurance has now accepted liability and will pay my insurance company back any costs they paid out to me. This closes the claim at my end. However, the third party insurance will probably leave it open at their end due to the potential of me submitting a PI claim within the next two years. Not going to say here whether that is the case or not. But a future PI claim against the third party has no bearing on my insurance from this point on.

I'm surprised it would have affected your policy that way if liability was assigned to the other side and you were a 'no fault'... Or did you maybe lose part of your NCB that affected it instead?

It's all such a complicated thing but you have to be on the ball with them :-(

I found it very hard to believe it myself, until every insurance company I rang gave me the same story. I agree, it makes no sense, but it's the truth. I think it was Axa who said that "although the third part have accepted liability for the property claim, they could potentially change their mind for a PI claim". Again, it seems odd. They all said that an open claim on any side affects insurance. I suspect it is to discourage smaller claims from being made for injuries. My ncb remains intact, but the fact that I intended to make a claim, meant that my premium got hit. I mentioned it to my solicitor and he said that it wasn't the first time he had heard it in recent months.

Maybe try it yourself and ask another insurance company if an open claim with third party liability accepted was active, would this impact your policy. I sincerely hope I am wrong and that it was a day of anomolous crap from the insurance companies.