TI 2015 MemberShip is up

niamh.foley

Membership for TI is up for 2015

just wondering is it just me or are the prices after going up again..

from 50 to 58 euros ?

Kurt Godel

€55 in 2014
€58 in 2015
5.45% increase
Average inflation Ireland for 2014 is 0.26% (source)

*Edit- thought it had only gone up €1... a €3 jump after a €5 jump last year is taking the mick...

cart man

tunney wrote: »

20% jump. emmm......

I think they were €50 two years ago and went up to €55 last year. So yes the prices have gone up but not 20% year on year.

(I believe KG is the resident mathematician on this forum so I will leave him to validate it but €50 - €58 would be a 16% increase)

Is it value for money, I am not sure and I fed that back on the TI survey. I would suggest that others to the same rather than post up here.

Oryx

I also did that survey, with much the same point. I kinda see membership as a race entry tax and not much more. I know we get insurance (third party?) but are there other benefits? Its a licence that can be used internationally, but a uk permit is £6 on the day anyway.

Chartsengrafs

Tax on race entry is a good way of putting it.
However, I did buy a heap of runners during the year in AK, taking advantage of the 10% discount to TI members. Made my €50 back that way. The more runners I bought, the more I saved.

niamh.foley

Oryx wrote: »

but are there other benefits? Its a licence that can be used internationally

A person i know done the ocean lava lanzarote race and holds a TI and had to buy a one day Lincence which was 10euro.

Kurt Godel

A 16% jump in two years is too much, for what you get. Benefits below as listed on TI site, and comments (I don't think I'm being facetious with the comments)

Benefits of Membership (€58 in 2015)
- Insurance Cover
This is 3rd Party and personal accident insurance only. Typically these Group schemes cost circa €6-€8, but can be cheaper still depending on volume.

- Annual Race Licence
A licence to Race. Plastic card and database entry.

- Race Series Eligibility
An eligibility to pay for entry into a Race Series.

- ITU/ETU Age Group Representation
An eligibility to pay for expression of interest (€20) to pay for entry into AG Races.

- Member Discounts (TI will be adding to this throughout 2015)
Typically similar discounts to most other club schemes. Personally I've never benefitted from this via TI membership.

RayCun

when are you covered by the insurance? AAI insurance it is only during club training sessions, Cycling Ireland seem to take the view that any time you are on your bike you are training. Where do TI stand?

Bambaata

niamh.foley wrote: »

A person i know done the ocean lava lanzarote race and holds a TI and had to buy a one day Lincence which was 10euro.

Thats obviously a local thing, in all foreign races ive done the TI membership card was accepted without the need for a one day one. In Sardinia just 2 weeks ago i used it and hence avoided having to get a one day licences as well as a doctors note!! Id imagine that would have cost 40-60 in itself. Note however the only foreign HIM races ive done have been Ironman or Challenge organised and thats obviously their rules. Others could be different.

Oryx

When I had my accident this year I asked them did I have any cover/benefit with them. Basically no. There are policies out there which cover things like loss of earnings, cancellations, TI's insurance is not one of them. As a comparison, my kids are covered for fixed amounts for things like broken bones and other injuries, for under a tenner a year through their school.

joey100

Race Series Eligibility
An eligibility to pay for entry into a Race Series.

- ITU/ETU Age Group Representation
An eligibility to pay for expression of interest (€20) to pay for entry into AG Races.

I kinda see membership as a race entry tax and not much more

I said pretty much the same thing when I was filling out the survey too. It says a lot about it when people are all thinking the same thing.

The main reason I'm a member of TI is that it is cheaper than buying one day licenses to race. I won a age group medal this year and couldn't make the awards ceremony, I asked them would they post it out to me and they said no. Wouldn't have taken much to use some of membership fees from the last few years to stick a medal in the post.

Oryx

Do you have to pay to go to the awards ceremony?

joey100

Yep, I got an email to say congratulations you have been invited to the awards ceremony, read on a bit and it costs €70 to go. You get a 4 course meal and some entertainment for it but I just don't have that amount of money to go at the moment. Ended up having to drive out to Dun Laoghaire to collect the medal beforehand (might be the only age group medal I ever win so wasn't going to pass it up!). They did say that they would give it to someone else in my club but only a small club and no one else going.

Claude Burgundy

joey100 wrote: »

Yep, I got an email to say congratulations you have been invited to the awards ceremony, read on a bit and it costs €70 to go. You get a 4 course meal and some entertainment for it but I just don't have that amount of money to go at the moment. Ended up having to drive out to Dun Laoghaire to collect the medal beforehand (might be the only age group medal I ever win so wasn't going to pass it up!). They did say that they would give it to someone else in my club but only a small club and no one else going.

Knowing roughly what they paid for the entertainment and meal per head that was a nice little earner for them.

The price increase really is a joke BUT people who enter races do seem now to only look at TI sanctioned races, "he who sall not be named" hasn't done much to help the name of non TI events.

Oryx

And I dont know about anyone else, but I cant be a member of my own club without TI membership. They cite insurance, but has anyone actually ever claimed?

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

when are you covered by the insurance? AAI insurance it is only during club training sessions, Cycling Ireland seem to take the view that any time you are on your bike you are training. Where do TI stand?

And i think its training sessions on the club grounds only? Could be wrong.


I know if a non member falls and hurt themselves during a club session on the club grounds, they can sue the club, but can't sue the club if the session is off the club grounds.

Claude Burgundy

Oryx wrote: »

And I dont know about anyone else, but I cant be a member of my own club without TI membership. They cite insurance, but has anyone actually ever claimed?

Trilogy won't let you train without it or take part in club races.

RayCun

average_runner wrote: »

And i think its training sessions on the club grounds only? Could be wrong.

I know if a non member falls and hurt themselves during a club session on the club grounds, they can sue the club, but can't sue the club if the session is off the club grounds.

Lots of links still broken on the AAI web page:rolleyes:

They say in the synopsis that you are covered in training sessions organised by your club. From memory, that is training sessions _anywhere_. (Obviously, if your club organises training sessions in an unsafe location or without due care and attention there could be consequences for the club.)

In your case, because you own the facility you have a responsibility to maintain it and ensure it is safe. If someone falls on the track and breaks their arm, AAI will cover it. If someone falls on the track because the track was in an unsafe condition the insurers will come looking for you.

We rent facilities (school halls etc) for training, and these facilities often ask for our insurance details. We can supply a letter from the insurers that explains the host facility is indemnified against claims because the club has a policy covering accidental injury.

(as is clear from the above, I'm not a lawyer!)

tunney

Oryx wrote: »

When I had my accident this year I asked them did I have any cover/benefit with them. Basically no. There are policies out there which cover things like loss of earnings, cancellations, TI's insurance is not one of them. As a comparison, my kids are covered for fixed amounts for things like broken bones and other injuries, for under a tenner a year through their school.

I broke my hand playing hurling years ago. Club insurance paid my wages from work missed.

RayCun wrote: »

when are you covered by the insurance? AAI insurance it is only during club training sessions, Cycling Ireland seem to take the view that any time you are on your bike you are training. Where do TI stand?

Offical sanctioned, pre-advertised sessions

The clubs insistence of TI membership is a club cannot be TI affiliated unless they agree to have all members TI members.

I'm wondering why clubs want to be affiliated though. Not sure what we get for being affiliated.

its not coaching, its not coaching courses, its..... I'm at a loss really

(any coaching given IN a club comes FROM the club not TI)

Oryx

TI aren't looking so good in this thread so far.

RayCun

(sorry if this is seen as butting in, I'm just interested in all this admin stuff from a club perspective)

The other question to ask about membership fees is not 'what do I get from it', but 'where is the money going'?

You could enter one race and say, yeah, that entry fee is good value because for it I get this top and that goody bag and those other things.
Or you could enter another race and say, yeah, this is good value because the organisers are paying for those road closures and that prize fund and this much to charity.

AAI membership is much lower, but you could argue that for years a substantial amount of the fee was wasted on bad admin and legal costs. (I remember there used to be lots of wrangling about this on A/R/T) You might not get much as an individual from TI membership, but the money might be well spent on things that are good for the long term of the sport?

Kurt Godel

For the sake of balance its worth pointing out that the oldies subsidise the youngies, which is how it should be:

TI Website wrote:

Student Race Licence: €25

Provides the same benefits as the Race Licence, however is only available to full time students.

Junior Race Licence (17-19yrs): €20

Provides the same benefits as the Race Licence.

Youth Licence (15-16yrs): €10

Provides the same benefits as the Race Licence.

Kid’s Tri Licence (0-14yrs): €5

Provides the same benefits as the Race Licence.

mossym

niamh.foley wrote: »

A person i know done the ocean lava lanzarote race and holds a TI and had to buy a one day Lincence which was 10euro.

i did that race. my TI membership covered me. there was no need for a one day license

mossym

Bambaata wrote: »

Thats obviously a local thing, in all foreign races ive done the TI membership card was accepted without the need for a one day one. In Sardinia just 2 weeks ago i used it and hence avoided having to get a one day licences as well as a doctors note!! Id imagine that would have cost 40-60 in itself. Note however the only foreign HIM races ive done have been Ironman or Challenge organised and thats obviously their rules. Others could be different.

ocean lava was the same. supplied org and number in advance that was all that was needed.

Claude Burgundy

Kurt Godel wrote: »

For the sake of balance its worth pointing out that the oldies subsidise the youngies, which is how it should be:

But to add i've seen many students and juniors on bikes that i couldn't even dream of buying...............i think they could afford to pay a higher membership.

sconhome

RayCun wrote: »

(sorry if this is seen as butting in, I'm just interested in all this admin stuff from a club perspective)

Yeah, yeah we believe you

Would you like to open a log? Ah go on, ya will, ya will, ya will....

griffin100

How many members do TI have? I've seen links that say 8,000 members but at any one time how many?

The Public Liability cover is pretty standard. It indemnifies you in case you are sued due to loss or damage you are alleged to have caused a third party when training or racing. It does cover club guests at certain types of non entry fee club events so for a small club like mine it allows you to invite non members to the club duathalon. Overall the scope of cover is not bad. Cost for something like this is difficult to estimate unless you have sight of loss history, but based on my experience of buying this type of cover for similar sized sports organisations (8,000 pax) it can cost between €15k and €25k .

The personal accident policy on the other hand is pretty poor. Max of €1,500 medical expenses, €250 physiotherapy, no loss of earnings cover. Death and serious injury benefits are also poor. I buy a similar type policy every year for approx. 8,000 sports club members with a better level of cover for circa. €20k.

If the TI annual accounts broke down how money was spent more fully we'd have an idea where the membership fees went, but they don't. They show for 2013 income of approx. €1.2m of which €338k is membership income. Expenditure is broken down into primarily admin expenses (€576k) and cost of sales (€554k) but little info on exact spend is given (they do seem to spend a lot on their website development :rolleyes:).

Other than this insurance and the option to buy your way into an Irish Tri Suit (which I have done in the past!!) I can't see exactly what else you get for your money.

MD1983

what about all of the things that (I think) TI does for your money:

sets the rules for triathlon and i assume tries in some fashion to ensure races are to a certain standard
provides/organises officials/referees?
training of the above
promotes triathlon in ireland
runs the national series and compiles the calendar
assume its coaching developing athletes, running talent ID days etc

there is probably a lot more that they do too that i cant think of. you might not value a lot of the above but somebody has to do it or else where would triathlon be in ireland?

i have looked at their latest accounts too, they have 10 staff working, they also have a number of directors (who are unpaid). they have a modest cash reserve nothing crazy

its not like there would be businesses falling over themselves to run triathlon in ireland that would provide you with a much superior service

RacoonQueen

Just looking at this now. May just get a non race license myself...max I will probably race next year would be twice I'd say so €20 + €15 + €15 still works out cheaper (unless they put ODL up)

Kurt Godel

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Just looking at this now. May just get a non race license myself...max I will probably race next year would be twice I'd say so €20 + €15 + €15 still works out cheaper (unless they put ODL up)

For the sake of Risk/Reward...TI website:

How much does a one day licence cost?
Children's Events: 3 euro / £3

Aqauthlons/Duathlons/Triathlons - €10 for 1st event, €25 per event thereafter.

RacoonQueen

Kurt Godel wrote: »

For the sake of Risk/Reward...TI website:

Ouch...were they not always €15?