Motoring Court Summons

JGEP

Hi all,

My fiancée was pulled for speeding on the motorway a couple of months ago (150km/h in a 120km/h zone). Quite a bit above but she wouldn't generally be driving my car on the motorway and drifted up a bit, not trying to get out of it just giving the reason as she has a full clean licence having driven for ~8 years.

She would have had no issue with paying the fine as we would both be of the mind that do the crime pay the fine, etc. but the speeding ticket never arrived to give her the opportunity to do so, just the court summons.

She is due in court tomorrow and will have to accept whatever judgement is made unfortunately, I was wondering if anyone would have any idea as to what the general ruling on a case like this would be?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

J

seamus

Five points, couple of hundred euro fine.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/case-thrown-out-after-td-failed-to-get-penalty-notice-30189821.html

It would be worth her mentioning that she never received any fixed penalty notice and was more than willing to pay the initial fine but she never got it.

MarkAnthony

+1 on the above.

You might be able to get a solicitor on the day if she's afraid of speaking up herself. That said if she's not and you're willing to take the lumps (probably the best course IMHO but that is not to be treated as legal advice) she can speak for herself.

Pro Hoc Vice

JGEP wrote: »

Hi all,

My fiancée was pulled for speeding on the motorway a couple of months ago (150km/h in a 120km/h zone). Quite a bit above but she wouldn't generally be driving my car on the motorway and drifted up a bit, not trying to get out of it just giving the reason as she has a full clean licence having driven for ~8 years.

She would have had no issue with paying the fine as we would both be of the mind that do the crime pay the fine, etc. but the speeding ticket never arrived to give her the opportunity to do so, just the court summons.

She is due in court tomorrow and will have to accept whatever judgement is made unfortunately, I was wondering if anyone would have any idea as to what the general ruling on a case like this would be?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

J

If she was driving your car how did she get the summons.

whiskeyman

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

If she was driving your car how did she get the summons.

She was pulled in so I guess she gave her driving licence details?

Pro Hoc Vice

whiskeyman wrote: »

She was pulled in so I guess she gave her driving licence details?

I assumed Camera Van.

Victor

Is she pretty and honest? Or at least pretty honest?

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/10/08/speeding-limerick-beauty-queen-praised-for-honesty/

Greenmachine

Victor wrote: »

Is she pretty and honest? Or at least pretty honest?

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/10/08/speeding-limerick-beauty-queen-praised-for-honesty/

I was I was pretty, but I am cursed with a "y" chromosone and a bad beard.

MarkAnthony

The Judge then asked her what her plans were for the evening and what time he should pick her up.

I jest, no suggestion of inappropriately should be taken.

kjbsrah1

Bring the amount of the fine to court plus maybe €100 and maybe the judge will accept that.... Might be the best chance of getting the best outcome. I've seen judges put people in the box, take the oath and get cross examined by the prosecuting garda - get asked what address do bank statements, credit card bills etc come to and have any of those ever not arrived.... Its rare but it does happen. But its not unusual to not get the fine and to just get the summons - it happened to me!!

JGEP

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

If she was driving your car how did she get the summons.

Sorry just back to the laptop now but she was pulled in and gave her licence

JGEP

Victor wrote: »

Is she pretty and honest? Or at least pretty honest?

http://www.limerickpost.ie/2014/10/08/speeding-limerick-beauty-queen-praised-for-honesty/

She's pretty alright

And honest too, that's the killer as she would have paid the fine had the notification arrived.

JGEP

kjbsrah1 wrote: »

Bring the amount of the fine to court plus maybe €100 and maybe the judge will accept that.... Might be the best chance of getting the best outcome. I've seen judges put people in the box, take the oath and get cross examined by the prosecuting garda - get asked what address do bank statements, credit card bills etc come to and have any of those ever not arrived.... Its rare but it does happen. But its not unusual to not get the fine and to just get the summons - it happened to me!!

How much is a speeding fine these days? Doesn't say on the summons.

Peregrinus

JGEP wrote: »

How much is a speeding fine these days? Doesn't say on the summons.

The legislation will set a maximum penalty for the offence she is charged with. The OP doesn't say what offence she is charged with, so I can't say what the maximum penalty would be in this case. The court will then impose a penalty anywhere up to the max, depending on the circumstances of the case. Your girlfriend can expect a discount from the max if she pleads guilty, plus a further discount because this is a first offence, plus possibly a further discount if the court takes pity on her for not having had the opportunity to resolve the matter by paying a ticket.

JGEP

Peregrinus wrote: »

The legislation will set a maximum penalty for the offence she is charged with. The OP doesn't say what offence she is charged with, so I can't say what the maximum penalty would be in this case. The court will then impose a penalty anywhere up to the max, depending on the circumstances of the case. Your girlfriend can expect a discount from the max if she pleads guilty, plus a further discount because this is a first offence, plus possibly a further discount if the court takes pity on her for not having had the opportunity to resolve the matter by paying a ticket.

Thanks for the response. The offence on the summons is driving in excess of 120km/h, it doesn't actually mention what speed she was doing. So she could possibly get 5 points and a fine of up to €1000, that'd be a disaster.

Peregrinus

JGEP wrote: »

Thanks for the response. The offence on the summons is driving in excess of 120km/h, it doesn't actually mention what speed she was doing. So she could possibly get 5 points and a fine of up to €1000, that'd be a disaster.

Does the summons mention a particular act and a section of that Act?

JGEP

Peregrinus wrote: »

Does the summons mention a particular act and a section of that Act?

It says 120km/h by virtue of Section 8 of Road Traffic Act 2004, contrary to Section 47 of the RTA 1961 (as inserted by Section 11 of the RTA 2004) and section 102 of the RTA 1961 (as ammended by Section 18 of the RTA 2006).

Sounds like a lot when you type it out!

Peregrinus

Yes, for a first offence I think it's max a thousand euro, and five points. As already mentioned, a guilty plea and a contrite apology will stand to her. On the other hand, she wasn't just marginally over the limit. 30 km/h is a pretty big margin.

JIdontknow

While 30km does seem a lot over when as a percentage it's 25%, that's the same as doing 62.5km in a 50 or 100 in an 80. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's acceptable at all just putting it in perspective.

OP If you could let us know the outcome I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it, all i can say is for her to be apologetic, and perhaps offer to pay a fine to charity or the poor box etc and accept responsibility.

hullaballoo

There was an AH outrage thread about that girl where everyone lost the plot because if she had been an ugly old man, she definitely wouldn't have gotten away so lightly.

She was convicted (therefore, got the associated penalty points, either 4 or 5) and fined €500. Someone posted other examples of speeding in that district and she was fined in and around the standard for someone breaking the 120kph limit. The main difference was how far above the limit she was; about 20kph faster than the next-fastest offender.

Now, that's where her youth and beauty may have come into the question. If she was stopped by a member of AGS doing that speed, the member had a choice of summonsing her for speeding simpliciter or careless driving. The latter obviously has a heavier penalty (5 points and max fine of €5,000.) Of course, she could have just been caught by a Gatso van in which case none of that applies. (I don't know what is meant by "Gardaí clocked her..." in the above-linked article.)

hullaballoo

JIdontknow wrote: »

While 30km does seem a lot over when as a percentage it's 25%, that's the same as doing 62.5km in a 50 or 100 in an 80. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's acceptable at all just putting it in perspective.

It doesn't really work like that. There are those who subscribe to the belief that sticking within 10% of the speed limit will keep you in the clear but if you're 12kph over the speed limit in a 120kph zone, you can expect to be pulled over for that. Sometimes you can get away with it if the Garda isn't sure their radar is calibrated correctly but it's still a big risk.

OP If you could let us know the outcome I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it, all i can say is for her to be apologetic, and perhaps offer to pay a fine to charity or the poor box etc and accept responsibility.

Just in relation to the poor box: it's risky offering to pay into the poor box because that system gets criticised by the media. Only certain District Judges still adhere to the poor box method and if you're in a District where it's not in favour, making the offer can very much go against you.

JGEP

JIdontknow wrote: »

While 30km does seem a lot over when as a percentage it's 25%, that's the same as doing 62.5km in a 50 or 100 in an 80. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's acceptable at all just putting it in perspective.

OP If you could let us know the outcome I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate it, all i can say is for her to be apologetic, and perhaps offer to pay a fine to charity or the poor box etc and accept responsibility.

Judgement was a fine of €200 with no mention at all of penalty points. She said everyone else there on speeding charges received the same fine so I'm assuming she get's the standard 2 points for speeding along with the increased fine.

kbell

JGEP wrote: »

Judgement was a fine of €200 with no mention at all of penalty points. She said everyone else there on speeding charges received the same fine so I'm assuming she get's the standard 2 points for speeding along with the increased fine.

The judges never mention the points, only the amount of the fine.
But once it's gone to court and convicted then the court appointed points amount apply.

JGEP

kbell wrote: »

The judges never mention the points, only the amount of the fine.
But once it's gone to court and convicted then the court appointed points amount apply.

When you say court appointed points amount, would that be 2 for the original offence or 5 for having to go to court?

seamus

JGEP wrote: »

Judgement was a fine of €200 with no mention at all of penalty points. She said everyone else there on speeding charges received the same fine so I'm assuming she get's the standard 2 points for speeding along with the increased fine.

It's five points, I'm afraid. The judge won't mention the points because they cannot decide whether or not to apply them. Once guilty in court, five points will apply.

JGEP

seamus wrote: »

It's five points, I'm afraid. The judge won't mention the points because they cannot decide whether or not to apply them. Once guilty in court, five points will apply.

That's really disappointing, she's never even let a parking ticket lapse and due to an administration error or something, she now has 5 points on her licence.

Peppa Pig

JGEP wrote: »

That's really disappointing, she's never even let a parking ticket lapse and due to an administration error or something, she now has 5 points on her licence.

Could that "something" be driving a car at 150 km/hr?
Is that speed enough to be brought straight to court?

JGEP

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Could that "something" be driving a car at 150 km/hr?
Is that speed enough to be brought straight to court?

No the penalty is 2 points and an €80 fine, if you receive the notice.

Peppa Pig

JGEP wrote: »

No the penalty is 2 points and an €80 fine, if you receive the notice.

It's actually 3 points and €80.

But the question I'm asking is, did the summons say speeding or careless driving. 150 km/h is incredibly fast and if the guard thought it was careless then it is straight to court.

JGEP

Peppa Pig wrote: »

It's actually 3 points and €80.

But the question I'm asking is, did the summons say speeding or careless driving. 150 km/h is incredibly fast and if the guard thought it was careless then it is straight to court.

3 points, apologies typo.
The summons said driving in excess of 120km/h, as stated earlier in the thread. No mention of careless driving.

Losty Dublin

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Could that "something" be driving a car at 150 km/hr?
Is that speed enough to be brought straight to court?

You need not be issued with a fixed ticket for speeding; they can go straight to court on occasion.

Sala

I was in court one day and a young fella pleaded guilty to speeding and when the judge asked his means he happened to mention he never got the original fine, she made him give evidence under oath which she accepted and struck it out. Deadly judge. Most don't seem to bother to check if people were served properly

nuac

Judges differ in these matters.

Check with a solicitor practising in that area