NCT tyre fail - are they wrong ?

dodzy

Hi folks,

a colleague just got back to the office in her 02 1.6 focus.

All good as expected apart from a fail advisory on nearside rear tyre. He told the girl that it was a winter tyre ( the only one on the car ) and it needed to be changed. I had not looked in too much detail on the pre-inspection - got the front 2 changed in advance but rears looked well threaded. Now, to the tyre in question:

Its a Vredestein Quatrac 3 - 3 little pictures of snow, rain & sun on the outer wall along with imprinted "ALL SEASONS". Surely the tester is wrong in this case as the tyre is rated for all seasons according to their website. Funny really, but its most likely the most expensive tyre on the car !

Volvoair

4 tires must be the same,or matching sets on front and back. eg. pair of winters on back,pair of summers on front.or vise /versa.

dodzy

Volvoair wrote: »

4 tires must be the same,or matching sets on front and back. eg. pair of winters on back,pair of summers on front.or vise /versa.

And would "all season" not fit either category ?

afro man

dodzy wrote: »

Hi folks,

a colleague just got back to the office in her 02 1.6 focus.

All good as expected apart from a fail advisory on nearside rear tyre. He told the girl that it was a winter tyre ( the only one on the car ) and it needed to be changed. I had not looked in too much detail on the pre-inspection - got the front 2 changed in advance but rears looked well threaded. Now, to the tyre in question:

Its a Vredestein Quatrac 3 - 3 little pictures of snow, rain & sun on the outer wall along with imprinted "ALL SEASONS". Surely the tester is wrong in this case as the tyre is rated for all seasons according to their website. Funny really, but its most likely the most expensive tyre on the car !

Ring up and appeall it look for the supervisior and see how you get on ?

Mycroft H

Fail advisory no? Should have still got your cert?

pippip

dodzy wrote: »

And would "all season" not fit either category ?

I would read it as "all season" meaning they do not have to be removed during the summer.

This is not the same as saying they are the same as a summer tyre.

But I thought a Fail Advisory is still a pass?

Anjobe

According to the NCT manual it may have been the snow symbol on the tyre wall that lead to the tyre being considered a winter tyre, although it would appear that if that was the case it should have resulted in a fail refusal.

corktina

mixed tyres on an axle should rightly be a fail.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

mixed tyres on an axle should rightly be a fail.

Should, but they aren't.
In most countries in EU it's illegal to drive with two different tyres within axle - must be the same make and model of tyre.
In Ireland it's only NCT fail if it's mixed between winter or summer tyre, or radial and diagonal.

dodzy

Big apologies guys, it is a fail refusal, don't know why I put in Advisory !

Again, my point remains: According to the manufacturer, it is ALL SEASON, which to me means any time of year, which in turn means it is suitable for Winter & Summer. I was onto CS and they checked with their Supervisor. Advised me to go back with any documentation I have ( Got stuff from Vredestein website ) and speak to a Team Leader. Fingers crossed.

Victor

dodzy wrote: »

All good as expected apart from a fail advisory on nearside rear tyre. He told the girl that it was a winter tyre ( the only one on the car ) and it needed to be changed.

Do note that different tyres on the same axle will wear at different rates and braking performance will be different, resulting in a potential spin, instead of braking in a straight line.

uck51js9zml2yt

Will changing it with the spare and having the winter tyre as a spare work for the retest.?

allthedoyles

Victor wrote: »

Do note that different tyres on the same axle will wear at different rates and braking performance will be different, resulting in a potential spin, instead of braking in a straight line.

I can absolutely confirm this to be true as it happened me , with one snow tyre on a rear axle.

Car spun around in a circle .

JohnBoy26

corktina wrote: »

mixed tyres on an axle should rightly be a fail.

Why? If both are decent tyres in good condition and the same size, I fail to see the issue

You must be fond of this colleague ya durty thing ya .

wildefalcon

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Why? If both are decent tyres in good condition and the same size, I fail to see the issue

They'd grip differently, which could and would cause the car to spin.

Which is bad.

JohnBoy26

wildefalcon wrote: »

They'd grip differently, which could and would cause the car to spin.

Which is bad.

Sorry I just don't buy that argument. They might grip differently but the difference will be minimal if they are both good tyres. I think some posters are being over dramatic in regards to this.

wildefalcon

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Sorry I just don't buy that argument. They might grip differently but the difference will be minimal if they are both good tyres. I think some posters are being over dramatic in regards to this.

Fair enough, but do you accept that bald tyres are more dangerous than tyres with thread in the wet?

CiniO

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

Sorry I just don't buy that argument. They might grip differently but the difference will be minimal if they are both good tyres. I think some posters are being over dramatic in regards to this.

Well, if you have brand new Michelin on the right, and worn Triangle with 2mm tread left, then difference won't be minimal. It will be actually horrendous difference.
And still legal in Ireland.

JohnBoy26

CiniO wrote: »

Well, if you have brand new Michelin on the right, and worn Triangle with 2mm tread left, then difference won't be minimal. It will be actually horrendous difference.
And still legal in Ireland.

The above has got nothing to do with my argument. Maybe you should read my post again Cinio. Nothing was mentioned in my post about 1 good tyre from a decent brand and 1 bald tyre from a cheaper brand.

I said decent tyres in good condition. Good brands were implied when I said "decent tyres"

With regards to your post above wouldn't the difference still be "horrendous" if you had 2 of the same Michelin's with one being new and one being "worn" at 2mm?

wildefalcon

JohnBoy26 wrote: »

The above has got nothing to do with my argument. Maybe you should read my post again Cinio. Nothing was mentioned in my post about 1 good tyre from a decent brand and 1 bald tyre from a cheaper brand.

I said decent tyres in good condition. Good brands were implied when I said "decent tyres"

With regards to your post above wouldn't the difference still be "horrendous" if you had 2 of the same Michelin's with one being new and one being "worn" at 2mm?

Well, in fairness, you are right. The trouble is that good winter tyres and good summer tyres are like having a Triangle and a Goodyear. One is grippy when the other isn't. Especially in winter, when the summer tyre is less grippy.

So, I suppose it's a question of degree, and a question of how hard you push the tyres, and it doesn't matter too much in normal driving. But in non-normal driving it DOES make a difference.

And accidents only happen in non-normal driving. You hit the brakes, and it all depends on how good the tyres are, and how good the brakes are, and how good the software on the ABS computer is. And how good you are.

My view? Why take the risk? €150 on tyres, or 2 weeks having the car repaired, or 3 months in rehab?

Simple.


Oh, and I think having a large thread imbalance should be reason to fail a road worthiness test, and I also think that tyres that don't pass reasonable standards for grip shouldn't be sold. I learned that lesson the hard way.

dodzy

Apart from the over-dramatics, som people seem to be missing that its not a winter on one side & summer on the other. Its a summer and an all season. Both have excellent thread depth. I'm gonna push this a bit and see how I get on.

Ironic really, as I could get a sh1tty 2nd hand with 2mm of wear and it'd pass. And there's no way that would be near the quality of the tyre that's currently fitted.

wildefalcon

dodzy wrote: »

Apart from the over-dramatics, som people seem to be missing that its not a winter on one side & summer on the other. Its a summer and an all season. Both have excellent thread depth. I'm gonna push this a bit and see how I get on.

Ironic really, as I could get a sh1tty 2nd hand with 2mm of wear and it'd pass. And there's no way that would be near the quality of the tyre that's currently fitted.

No, we get your point - two all season tyres, one with a snow flake on it, one without. You are within your rights to appeal.

We just got distracted, that's all. Sorry.

Anjobe

wildefalcon wrote: »

No, we get your point - two all season tyres, one with a snow flake on it, one without. You are within your rights to appeal.

We just got distracted, that's all. Sorry.

According to the NCT manual a summer tyre and an all season tyre are OK, but an all season tyre will be considered a winter tyre if it has the winter tyre symbol on it (snowflake on a mountain). It seems your tyre has this along with some other symbols that indicate its all season suitability.

Do appeal and let us know how you get on. I wish you luck, but from the wording of the manual it is understandable why it was failed. I guess the manual needs to be black and white and not leave it to the judgement of individual testers as to what is or isn't a winter tyre. It might be less hassle to swap that wheel for the spare and go for a retest, which should just be a free visual.

H3llR4iser

dodzy wrote: »

Apart from the over-dramatics, som people seem to be missing that its not a winter on one side & summer on the other. Its a summer and an all season. Both have excellent thread depth. I'm gonna push this a bit and see how I get on.

If that's the case, it should be a fail. The tires on each axle need to be the same type and size - so if there is a summer on one side, there needs to be a summer on the other side; Winter only matches winter and "all seasons" has to go with "all seasons". Really just as simple as that - it's not a case of "all seasons include summer, so a summer tire on the other side is covered!".

We could debate forever about the validity/technicalities of such a rule, but the fact won't change.

PS: Just read the post above. It's actually correct - "m+s" would be oddly OK to go with a summer tire, but what is essentially making your friend fail is the snow symbol.

RootX

Personally, I wouldn't appeal