Brown Girl in The Ring song

Yorker

Brown Girl in The Ring - Boney M

As this song is, according to wiki, a traditional children's song does that mean anyone could use the tune? Would a traditional childrens song be copyrighted?

Labarbapostiza

Yes, a traditional song can be copyrighted.

Or more it's the arrangement is copyrighted.

Paul Simon has the copyright for Scarborough Fair.

Traditional songs, in their traditional format, tend to have variations in lyrics and sometimes melodies, rhythms. Usually, if they're made famous by a particular performer, it will be one particular choice of lyrics etc. That arrangement will usually be copyrighted, and it will also be the version people want to hear.

It's like this. You ain't nuthin' but a houndog, is a traditional American blues song . If you sing it slowly, like Odetta, you'll be fine. If you impersonate Elvis while singing it, then you have to pay Elvis.

Yorker

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

Yes, a traditional song can be copyrighted.

Or more it's the arrangement is copyrighted.

Paul Simon has the copyright for Scarborough Fair.

Traditional songs, in their traditional format, tend to have variations in lyrics and sometimes melodies, rhythms. Usually, if they're made famous by a particular performer, it will be one particular choice of lyrics etc. That arrangement will usually be copyrighted, and it will also be the version people want to hear.

It's like this. You ain't nuthin' but a houndog, is a traditional American blues song . If you sing it slowly, like Odetta, you'll be fine. If you impersonate Elvis while singing it, then you have to pay Elvis.

so could you change the words and sing it at the same 'speed' as boney m. i do not understand arrangements but say it sounded like boney m with different words

Labarbapostiza

Yorker wrote: »

so could you change the words and sing it at the same 'speed' as boney m. i do not understand arrangements but say it sounded like boney m with different words

That's a tricky one. If it was a widely sung song, long before Boney M. If you could find it in an old song book of children's songs, and it doesn't have a credit, or it's credited as traditional with no other name. Then you could use it.

But, if you do it, and you try to sound like Boney M, or you change the lyrics and still try to sound like Boney M. You cannot do that. because it's a soundalike.

Only Boney M have the right to sound like Boney M.

Usually there's only a problem if there's money involved.

Yorker

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

That's a tricky one. If it was a widely sung song, long before Boney M. If you could find it in an old song book of children's songs, and it doesn't have a credit, or it's credited as traditional with no other name. Then you could use it.

But, if you do it, and you try to sound like Boney M, or you change the lyrics and still try to sound like Boney M. You cannot do that. because it's a soundalike.

Only Boney M have the right to sound like Boney M.

Usually there's only a problem if there's money involved.

no i do not want to sound like boney m but use different words with the tune as they sung it

cml387

Are you entering a song in the Eurovision song contest?

Lucena

I always thought it was 'in the rain'. Maybe you could change it to that.

Labarbapostiza

Yorker wrote: »

no i do not want to sound like boney m but use different words with the tune as they sung it

You may be fine.

I've looked up the song on Wikipedia. It is traditional Jamaican children's song. It has previous recordings. Alan Lomax has it in collection. These are good signs that it's a traditional free to use song, melody and all.

You're probably as free to use it as to use Ring o Ring o Rosie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_Girl_in_the_Ring_(song)

Yorker

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

You may be fine.

I've looked up the song on Wikipedia. It is traditional Jamaican children's song. It has previous recordings. Alan Lomax has it in collection. These are good signs that it's a traditional free to use song, melody and all.

You're probably as free to use it as to use Ring o Ring o Rosie

"It is traditional Jamaican children's song" that is why i wondered if it could be copyrighted. i have to remove your url from the quote cannot put up links

Yorker

cml387 wrote: »

Are you entering a song in the Eurovision song contest?

yep
would you like to sing it

Victor

Yorker wrote: »

no i do not want to sound like boney m but use different words with the tune as they sung it

It is quite possible that the Boney M copyright rests on the music, not the words.

Labarbapostiza

Yorker wrote: »

"It is traditional Jamaican children's song" that is why i wondered if it could be copyrighted. i have to remove your url from the quote cannot put up links

It's tricky. if you look at the wiki page, you'll see a guy called Exuma tried to sue Boney M. He's now dead, and did not win his case.

But he did chance his arm.

Where there's a hit, there's a writ.

Manach

Even with the recent extensions to the copyright term, given the length of time that such songs (the original air/words and not the Boney-M) have been around they are likely to come under the auspices of orphan works. Hence available for all.

Ken.

Happy birthday is copyrighted so any other song is probably off limits. I read recently that if happy birthday is sung in a film its $10,000 to the copyright owners.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Birthday_to_You

The documentary film The Corporation states that Warner/Chappell charges up to US$10,000 for the song to appear in a film. Because of the copyright issue, filmmakers rarely show complete singalongs of "Happy Birthday" in films, either substituting the public-domain "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" or avoiding the song entirely

Yorker

Manach wrote: »

Even with the recent extensions to the copyright term, given the length of time that such songs (the original air/words and not the Boney-M) have been around they are likely to come under the auspices of orphan works. Hence available for all.

That is what i meant the air with different words

Labarbapostiza

Victor wrote: »

It is quite possible that the Boney M copyright rests on the music, not the words.

No. It would rest on something that's quite vague, which is the arrangement.

All pieces of music are arranged. An arrangement of a traditional air can be copyrighted. If you think about it, you can see the possible absurdity. If someone creates an alternative arrangement, but which contains elements that are in the copyrighted arrangement, then there's a writ. Paul Simon added complex harmonies to Scarborough Fair. These are not in the traditional tune. If you've recorded a version with these harmonies, or something close, then you're nailed.

If I recorded a version of Ring o Ring o Rosie, but in my arrangement I did something interesting, like complex harmonies, rhythm. If the distinctions in my arrangement are copied by someone else, then I have a claim. There's always chancing your arm, which goes on a lot too.

NotCominBack

Is it rain or ring?

Yorker

NotCominBack wrote: »

Is it rain or ring?

ring

Yorker

Labarbapostiza wrote: »

No. It would rest on something that's quite vague, which is the arrangement.

All pieces of music are arranged. An arrangement of a traditional air can be copyrighted. If you think about it, you can see the possible absurdity. If someone creates an alternative arrangement, but which contains elements that are in the copyrighted arrangement, then there's a writ. Paul Simon added complex harmonies to Scarborough Fair. These are not in the traditional tune. If you've recorded a version with these harmonies, or something close, then you're nailed.

If I recorded a version of Ring o Ring o Rosie, but in my arrangement I did something interesting, like complex harmonies, rhythm. If the distinctions in my arrangement are copied by someone else, then I have a claim. There's always chancing your arm, which goes on a lot too.

so if i had someone arrange a different version of BGITR it would be ok? I do not understand arrangements.is it only a traditional air you can make a new arrangement of?

coylemj

Yorker wrote: »

so if i had someone arrange a different version of BGITR it would be ok? I do not understand arrangements.

Are you familiar with Joe Cocker's recording of the Beatles' song 'With a little help from my friends'? Same music and lyrics as the original recording but a (very) different arrangement.

The song 'Always on my Mind' was composed by Willie Nelson, he and Elvis recorded it using more or less the same arrangement but the Pet Shop Boys recorded it using a radically different arrangement.

Yorker wrote: »

..is it only a traditional air you can make a new arrangement of?

If you want to avoid paying royalties, yes.

Grolschevik

Google 'Back home in Derry' and 'Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald'. Same melody, different words and arrangement.

And if you don't know what 'arrangement' means, you probably have no business going near music copyright!

nuac

In the rain, ( not ring ) ?

Yorker

nuac wrote: »

In the rain, ( not ring ) ?

ring