Different approach to "invasion" of spaces...

H3llR4iser

Funny thing happened yesterday; Went to the gym and there was this lady scrubbing the lockers and benches in the changing rooms. As one would expect, not one guy gave a single f@:k about it, and went on their business changing, taking showers and so on - including myself.

Only a little later it occurred to me - what would have happened if it was the opposite? I mean, guy cleaning the ladies changing rooms? It makes me chuckle a bit, it is quite interesting to see how different the reactions to such a situations are.

Terrlock

Guys would even enjoy that, where as girls would feel very under threat from a Guy in their changing rooms - generally speaking.

tritium

Terrlock wrote: »

Guys would even enjoy that, where as girls would feel very under threat from a Guy in their changing rooms - generally speaking.

I don't enjoy it at all, I'd get quite annoyed if a female, cleaner or otherwise just came in to a changing room or toilet in spite of it being in use. Thankfully the cleaners in my current job have the sense to knock, and wait if the facilities are occupied. I have in the past had to gently motion cleaners back out until I was finished.

H3llR4iser

Terrlock wrote: »

Guys would even enjoy that, where as girls would feel very under threat from a Guy in their changing rooms - generally speaking.

Enjoy - nope; In the context of the changing rooms, frankly I simply don't mind, the world ain't gonna end if somebody sees me in underwear.

In the toilette, especially if you are...ahem...taking a "number 2", it is quite embarrassing.

Still it's such a far cry from the accusations of peeping, calls to the police forces and various drama that would follow a reverse of such situation. Not saying that either is wrong, but it's interesting to see the difference in attitude when the situations are really no different at all.

Pawwed Rig

Mod note - Enough with the generalisations lads. All men would not enjoy it (in fact I doubt any would) and All women would not have a major over reaction.

pogmobhud

Perhaps raise it with the gym? See if they treat it as they should

rockstar_91

On this subject, I work in a small kitchen in a cafe, where I am the only full time male member on staff. The kitchen is quite cramped and can get very busy. Given this, when we are moving around each other, we will often verbalize where we are moving to eg "right", "left", "behind". This is often accompanied by a tap on the arm, shoulder or hip if we need the team member to move a small amount to allow us complete our task. Recently a new girl joined our kitchen staff who had no real experience of such an environment. She has picked up on the way we communicate as outlined above, which some people, who have been staff members for much longer, have not. In general, this allows the kitchen work more safely.

The general practice in our workplace is that when we are busy we communicate as above, but when the kitchen is quiet at off peak times of the day there is no need to tap a person to move past.

On several occasions in the last three weeks or so, the new member of staff has taken to being excessively touchy with members of staff, including myself - things like putting both of her hands on someones hips when trying to pass when they are not in her way. It has been mentioned to her but she continues to do these things every couple of days.

Her behaviour doesn't necessarily make me feel uncomfortable. What irks me is that if things were reversed and I was in her position and she in mine, I would definitely be pulled up on it, and quite possibly in a severe manner.

H3llR4iser

rockstar_91 wrote: »

On this subject, I work in a small kitchen in a cafe, where I am the only full time male member on staff. The kitchen is quite cramped and can get very busy. Given this, when we are moving around each other, we will often verbalize where we are moving to eg "right", "left", "behind". This is often accompanied by a tap on the arm, shoulder or hip if we need the team member to move a small amount to allow us complete our task. Recently a new girl joined our kitchen staff who had no real experience of such an environment. She has picked up on the way we communicate as outlined above, which some people, who have been staff members for much longer, have not. In general, this allows the kitchen work more safely.

The general practice in our workplace is that when we are busy we communicate as above, but when the kitchen is quiet at off peak times of the day there is no need to tap a person to move past.

On several occasions in the last three weeks or so, the new member of staff has taken to being excessively touchy with members of staff, including myself - things like putting both of her hands on someones hips when trying to pass when they are not in her way. It has been mentioned to her but she continues to do these things every couple of days.

Her behaviour doesn't necessarily make me feel uncomfortable. What irks me is that if things were reversed and I was in her position and she in mine, I would definitely be pulled up on it, and quite possibly in a severe manner.

Is she, by any chance, not Irish? I am asking because in some cultures such as the Mediterranean ones, physical contact is not seen as the ultimate taboo like it is often the case here.

Pawwed Rig

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Is she, by any chance, not Irish? I am asking because in some cultures such as the Mediterranean ones, physical contact is not seen as the ultimate taboo like it is often the case here.

That is true. I work with A Spanish girl who is very tactile and also have a Chinese friend who will hook your arm if she is walking with you.

rockstar_91

She is a Polish girl. I was aware of such behaviour in Spanish and other Mediteranean cultures but I haven't heard of anything in Polish culture.

skallywag

H3llR4iser wrote: »

... I am asking because in some cultures such as the Mediterranean ones, physical contact is not seen as the ultimate taboo like it is often the case here.

Very good point, and I would not confine it to Mediterraneans either. In my opinion Irish people definitely have much more of a hangup with being touched in any way when compared to other nationalities.

H3llR4iser

rockstar_91 wrote: »

She is a Polish girl. I was aware of such behaviour in Spanish and other Mediteranean cultures but I haven't heard of anything in Polish culture.

As far as I am aware there are a lot of similarities; I know a few Polish nationals and there are quite a few similarities with Italian culture, for example; Besides...

skallywag wrote: »

Very good point, and I would not confine it to Mediterraneans either. In my opinion Irish people definitely have much more of a hangup with being touched in any way when compared to other nationalities.

...to be honest, Irish people are indeed quite extreme about the "fear of contact". It really is at odds with the general "outgoing" and "warm" reputation; It makes for a fairly curious situation.

NoCrackHaving

Northern Europeans in general aren't big into physical contact with people they don't know. It's not right or wrong, just a different society. Likewise, being overly touchy isn't wrong or right, just different.

miamee

When I worked in a German hotel for a summer, two of the waitresses in the hotel were older ladies (60s or so, my friend and I were 19, both girls). They used to pat us on the bum a lot. We found it very odd and used to laugh about it but it was just a sign of affection for them, others there did it to each other too.

I can;t imagine anyone getting away with that in the work place here!

laoch na mona

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Funny thing happened yesterday; Went to the gym and there was this lady scrubbing the lockers and benches in the changing rooms. As one would expect, not one guy gave a single f@:k about it, and went on their business changing, taking showers and so on - including myself.

Only a little later it occurred to me - what would have happened if it was the opposite? I mean, guy cleaning the ladies changing rooms? It makes me chuckle a bit, it is quite interesting to see how different the reactions to such a situations are.

never happened with a women but I did feel rather odd in the gym one morning, I was the only person in the changing room (it was very early) and when I was half dressed a memnber of staff (male) walks out of the shower after cleaning it, we shared a mutual look of awkwardness/ surprise that we weren't alone

All and all it was fairly minor, i get your point though if theres no girl on then a lad will eventually have to clean the changing room, and some women may feel ucomfortable others probably wouldn't care, the same as with guys

lazybones32

I went out with a Czech lady a few years ago and she commented that women there would walk around nude in the dressing rooms of gyms/swimming pools whereas Irish women were more careful about covering up.

Pawwed Rig

lazybones32 wrote: »

I went out with a Czech lady a few years ago and she commented that women there would walk around nude in the dressing rooms of gyms/swimming pools whereas Irish women were more careful about covering up.

In the female changing rooms or were they mixed? Why would people cover up if female only?

fits

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

In the female changing rooms or were they mixed? Why would people cover up if female only?

Cos its just what's done. Would be same in US. I have pretty much never seen naked women in changing rooms in Ireland.

Whereas in Nordic countries nudity is expected in certain situations, eg sauna in Finland, pool bathing in Iceland (you have to demonstrably clean before putting on costume and going into pool, as they dont use chlorine)- always gender segregated though.

Pawwed Rig

fits wrote: »

Cos its just what's done. Would be same in US. I have pretty much never seen naked women in changing rooms in Ireland

Oh ok. That is strange. Male changing rooms have no such issues. Seems pointless even segregating changing rooms in that case

CelticRambler

We don't get much of that "gender" problem in France, at least not when it comes to changing in and out of dance costumes - men, women, children, adults, everyone strips down the the bare essentials in sight of each other (and whatever committee member happens to be wandering through, usually with drinks or meal vouchers!)

beks101

fits wrote: »

Cos its just what's done. Would be same in US. I have pretty much never seen naked women in changing rooms in Ireland.

Yeah this would be my experience too. I've lived abroad the last number of years, Canada first and now the UK, and I remember when I first emigrated I was silently shocked in my first gym changing room that the women were walking around naked/half naked because it's never been that way in Ireland.

Spent a few months at home about a year ago and I remember it was my turn to be baffled at the women clutching their towels close to them or heading into the jacks to change etc. I think generally we're less comfortable with nudity and the open expression of it than a lot of other countries.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

tritium wrote: »

I don't enjoy it at all, I'd get quite annoyed if a female, cleaner or otherwise just came in to a changing room or toilet in spite of it being in use. Thankfully the cleaners in my current job have the sense to knock, and wait if the facilities are occupied. I have in the past had to gently motion cleaners back out until I was finished.

I wouldn't be comfortable with this at all.

When it happens in pubs I let the "intruder" know how I feel and ask them to remove themselves.

One time a girl came into the guys toilets in a pub, pulled up her skirt and pissed into the urinal... thinking it's perfectly ok. Quite disgusting behavior.

bb1234567

skallywag wrote: »

Very good point, and I would not confine it to Mediterraneans either. In my opinion Irish people definitely have much more of a hangup with being touched in any way when compared to other nationalities.

Not just Irish, its pretty much the whole anglosphere.

allibastor

I actually do remember this happening in a gym before also.
I was there before work, usually it is very very quiet in the morning when I went, I would usually be dressed for the gym when I left home and go right into my training.

I was there one morning and the cleaning lady came in and just started to clean away. She was a Polish lady I remember and AFAIK had little English.
But this morning in question I was there after the shower in my birthday suit and she walks right in, looks at me, says something and then carries on cleaning.
I had to cover myself and change in the shower room.

Just made me feel a bit odd and I said it to the manager who did say she was told to knock first. Obviously didnt

laoch na mona

bb1234567 wrote: »

Not just Irish, its pretty much the whole anglosphere.

just our luck that we were colonised by pruds

fits

bb1234567 wrote: »

Not just Irish, its pretty much the whole anglosphere.

And most of northern europe too.

Fate Amenable To Change

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Is she, by any chance, not Irish? I am asking because in some cultures such as the Mediterranean ones, physical contact is not seen as the ultimate taboo like it is often the case here.

The Italians are lethal for catching you by the back when they're standing in front of you, at least thats my experience.