Native - Non Native

blackpearl

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it must of been a sick pigeon or a dead one because they are to fast for a buzzard,they would sooner prefare young pheasants where they can drop down on them from a tree as some say they only take rats pull the other one, why did they become extinct all those years ago,i wonder.

Capercaille

blackpearl wrote: »

it must of been a sick pigeon or a dead one because they are to fast for a buzzard,they would sooner prefare young pheasants where they can drop down on them from a tree as some say they only take rats pull the other one, why did they become extinct all those years ago,i wonder.

Buzzards catch small mammals, rabbits, beetles, earthworms, carrion and smaller amounts of birds. In UK where they have much higher densities of buzzards they been estimated to account for roughly 1-2% of pheasant losses. (Birdnuts posted a good link before).

ben 11

blackpearl wrote: »

it must of been a sick pigeon or a dead one because they are to fast for a buzzard,they would sooner prefare young pheasants where they can drop down on them from a tree as some say they only take rats pull the other one, why did they become extinct all those years ago,i wonder.

Not impossible I suppose or maybe a pigeon shot earlier in the day. Its very difficult to imagine such a big bird living off rats and if they are they're not making much of a impact on the rat population.
Count your lucky stars out west lads because they certainly seem to be thriving across the midlands.

Capercaille

ben 11 wrote: »

Not impossible I suppose or maybe a pigeon shot earlier in the day. Its very difficult to imagine such a big bird living off rats and if they are they're not making much of a impact on the rat population.
Count your lucky stars out west lads because they certainly seem to be thriving across the midlands.

Buzzards are filling an important role in the ecosystem, hopefully they will spread countrywide.

ben 11

Capercaille wrote: »

Buzzards are filling an important role in the ecosystem, hopefully they will spread countrywide.

To be honest they are a magnificent bird which you have to stand and admire,but even if they're not taking pheasants, they do seem to be affecting the behaviour of pheasants in the fields which is what this thread is about. thats my opinion anyway

fabwing

There is three buzzards in galway that i see nearly every other day circling and calling, the rabbit population is affected in my area and pheasants are scarce and very wild, my pointer hunted a pheasant over 4 fields before he got up wild.

richiedel123

shotie wrote: »

seeing alot more of buzzards here too in north tipp in the last few year numbers have gone well up

I'm in north tipp too and there is a boom of them here. In 1 area I hunt it has went from 1 pair to 4 pair in the last year. This is only over a small area. All day I can see them circling around. Then along wit huge numbers of pine Martin is a recipe for disaster. I also see a huge decline in pheasant numbers around these areas too

richiedel123

shotie wrote: »

seeing alot more of buzzards here too in north tipp in the last few year numbers have gone well up

I'm in north tipp too and there is a boom of them here. In 1 area I hunt it has went from 1 pair to 4 pair in the last year. This is only over a small area. All day I can see them circling around. Then along wit huge numbers of pine Martin is a recipe for disaster. I also see a huge decline in pheasant numbers around these areas too

Birdnuts

richiedel123 wrote: »

I'm in north tipp too and there is a boom of them here. In 1 area I hunt it has went from 1 pair to 4 pair in the last year. This is only over a small area. All day I can see them circling around. Then along wit huge numbers of pine Martin is a recipe for disaster. I also see a huge decline in pheasant numbers around these areas too

Its unlikely to be Buzzards as this study on the fate of pen reared birds shows

http://www.gwct.org.uk/research/species/birds/common-pheasant/fate-of-released-pheasants/


Plenty of buzzards on gun club/game land here and pheasant numbers are well up after that disastrous wet summer of 2012


PS: Buzzards circle for hours on end if there are thermals/updraughts. I wouldn't read anything sinister into such things

Birdnuts

ben 11 wrote: »

Not impossible I suppose or maybe a pigeon shot earlier in the day. Its very difficult to imagine such a big bird living off rats and if they are they're not making much of a impact on the rat population.
Count your lucky stars out west lads because they certainly seem to be thriving across the midlands.

Their not that big. The just have big wings but weigh less than 3 pounds. One rat would keep them going for a good while.

http://duhallow.blogspot.ie/p/buzzards-in-duhallow.html

I must say it saddens me that some hunters have such outdated and inaccurate views about our native raptors:(.

Birdnuts

As regards pheasant behaviour. Obviously anywhere they are being shot regularly, the birds are going to be nervous/jumpy. It appears some people expect them to walk around like farmyard chickens They are meant to be "wild" birds and if they don't behave as such then they would quikly become fox-food in any case

Capercaille

Birdnuts wrote: »

I must say it saddens me that some hunters have such outdated and inaccurate views about our native raptors:(.

Such negative attitudes does not bode well for the raptor reintroductions.

Birdnuts

Capercaille wrote: »

Such negative attitudes does not bode well for the raptor reintroductions.

In fairness I would say its a minority. Projects like the Boora Partridge in Offaly show that raptors and gamebird population can exist sustainably together and the likes of the NARGC have recognised this. Anyways I don't want to drag this thread more off topic by discussing things that have nothing to do with hunting

richiedel123

To be honest I don't believe half these reports. Most the time I think they are biased to make people believe one thing over another. I go by what I see. And what I seen in the last 2 years is a friend of mine rears birds and each year the buzzards come once he starts releasing birds and surround the place screeching like they are trying to round up the poults and when they get their opportunity they strike. He has partridge too and the sparrow hawks love them and have no problem getting them. As I said I seen this with my own eyes so that's what I believe. In numbers this year between buzzard and sparrow hawk they have probably taken about 30 or 40 birds. In fairness he takes it on the chin and says they are probably taking the weaker birds but in reality that's a big loss

Birdnuts

richiedel123 wrote: »

To be honest I don't believe half these reports. Most the time I think they are biased to make people believe one thing over another. I go by what I see. And what I seen in the last 2 years is a friend of mine rears birds and each year the buzzards come once he starts releasing birds and surround the place screeching like they are trying to round up the poults and when they get their opportunity they strike. He has partridge too and the sparrow hawks love them and have no problem getting them. As I said I seen this with my own eyes so that's what I believe. In numbers this year between buzzard and sparrow hawk they have probably taken about 30 or 40 birds. In fairness he takes it on the chin and says they are probably taking the weaker birds but in reality that's a big loss of poults that could have survived had they not been reintroduced

Your entitled to your opinion but I suggest you take the short trip up the road to Boora and speak to the professional keepers there. You will also see the impressive numbers of partridges and other game on the ground. I see the same on Blessington Game Club land. All these projects and studies can't be wrong

PS: Buzzards don't screech when they are hunting. This would obviously scare off prey. They only call when they are displaying/communicating to other buzzards

blackpearl

you must remember that boora is funded with a full time kepper the grey partridge has no chance of recovering with the number of buzzards out their,no one minds the sparrowhawk taking a few birds here and their but buzzards are in plague numbers and us real hunting men on the ground can see the damage they are causing to pheasant numbers.and all we can do is look on .

helqui

For what its worth i have seen on two different occassions and a couple of years apart, first time buzzards trying(two of them) literally eat their way through top netting of a pen to get at poults inside, second time one dropping down on something which later turned out to be a hen pheasant (was out walking the dogs). There have been various studies into buzzards taking pheasants and really it depends on who is funding them on what the final conclusion is. I did read that buzzards are responsible for 7% of predation on pheasants the same percentage as foxes. Its hard to know.

Capercaille

blackpearl wrote: »

you must remember that boora is funded with a full time kepper the grey partridge has no chance of recovering with the number of buzzards out their,no one minds the sparrowhawk taking a few birds here and their but buzzards are in plague numbers and us real hunting men on the ground can see the damage they are causing to pheasant numbers.and all we can do is look on .

Boora has a full time gamekeeper as you said. Good numbers of buzzards and other raptors present yet partridge increasing in numbers well, due to correct habitat and good breeding stock. Intensive farming exterminated partridge in this Country. You have to remember that a lot of pheasant released are little more than domestic chickens ill equipped for life in wild and are easily predated.

Birdnuts

helqui wrote: »

For what its worth i have seen on two different occassions and a couple of years apart, first time buzzards trying(two of them) literally eat their way through top netting of a pen to get at poults inside, second time one dropping down on something which later turned out to be a hen pheasant (was out walking the dogs). There have been various studies into buzzards taking pheasants and really it depends on who is funding them on what the final conclusion is. I did read that buzzards are responsible for 7% of predation on pheasants the same percentage as foxes. Its hard to know.

The BASC study showed the averge loss to buzzards and other BOPS was in the order of 2-3%. Losses from the likes of roadkill etc. were far higher. As you might know the BASC is one of the largest shooting organisations in the UK. In all these studies fox predations was by far the biggest factor in regards ot predation issues

Birdnuts

blackpearl wrote: »

you must remember that boora is funded with a full time kepper the grey partridge has no chance of recovering with the number of buzzards out their,no one minds the sparrowhawk taking a few birds here and their but buzzards are in plague numbers and us real hunting men on the ground can see the damage they are causing to pheasant numbers.and all we can do is look on .

Lads doing normal vermin control and putting in good habitat work can get similar results. I've seen it done on Game club land around Blessington. However as you well know there are alot of GC's were little is done in these areas and the same people will bitch and moan about this, that and the other if they don't get to shoot a bag full of pheasants every time they go out

And with all due respect, both buzzards and partridges survived perfectly well together for thousands of year in this country. Its only in very recent times that both were wiped out by modern farming methods etc.. Both buzzards and partridges continue to thrive around Europe where traditional farming habitats are mentained. I've seen it myself on trips to Eastern Europe and Turkey. And what are "real hunting men"?? I've hunted all my life, reared pheasants, put in plenty of habitat on my own place and on farmers land that I've got to know over the years. plus I know plenty of seasoned gamekeepers and lads with decades of hunting experience who would agree with me. TBH this type of hysteria about buzzards distracts people from addressing the real reasons beyhind the decline in birds like Partridges which have been well documented by a mountain of studies on the matter.

It would be alot more helpfull if the likes of yourself and others lobby the the Dept and Minister for Agriculture to stop them inflicting policies on farmers that are destructive to farmland habitat likes hedgerows, scrub, rough meadows,wetlands, unsprayed cover crops etc.. Its these policies that have wiped out the likes of the Partridges etc. and they ain't coming back until that situation changes

blackpearl

have to say totally agree with the last part of your post,by the way spent about 10 minutes watching a red kite when we were having the grub.the crows were driving him mad.

dodderangler

Are we still talking about pheasants or bashing buzzards.
Buzzards take fcuk all compared to foxes and mink. Not to mention bad weather affecting clutches and local corvids having a go aswell.
Probably more pheasants hit by cars than buzzards taking them.

Birdnuts

blackpearl wrote: »

bad weather the last 2 summers were the best for wild pheasants in over 20 years, and years ago(pre buzzards) when we had good summers their was plenty of wild birds,not anymore,in our clubs in the last few years foxes ,grey crows, magpies and mink were hammered loads of members and farmers have all seen buzzards killing young pheasants,people can trow up all the surveys they like it will not change my mind.but as it stands their is nothing that can be done about it.

I get that you don't like buzzards - I'm simply pointing out what your saying is not backed up to any great extent when this issue is examined in a scientific way using buzzard dropping analysis and the sattelite tagging of pheasants in the studies I mentioned. Nor is it apparent in alot of game clubs and partridge projects around the country. If we were to base policy in this area on what lads say down the pub,random comments on forums etc. then the whole thing would just become a joke. A bit like this thread is becoming since the OP has already stated that he doesn't have any buzzards on his hunting grounds!!

On that note I'm going to try and get the thread back on topic and say to the OP that the 3 main factors effecting the reaction of pheasants on his permission is likely to be down to 3 things

1) Hunting pressure

2) Nature of natural cover on his permission

3) Strain of pheasant.

These vary alot. He mentioned the pheasants are getting hasseled by intruders taking pot shots at them. Therefore on that evidence its likely that number 1 is the main factor

Capercaille

blackpearl wrote: »

bad weather the last 2 summers were the best for wild pheasants in over 20 years, and years ago(pre buzzards) when we had good summers their was plenty of wild birds,not anymore,in our clubs in the last few years foxes ,grey crows, magpies and mink were hammered loads of members and farmers have all seen buzzards killing young pheasants,people can trow up all the surveys they like it will not change my mind.but as it stands their is nothing that can be done about it.

When buzzards set up territories in an area the number of crow ( magpie, hoodies, rooks) breeding pairs will decrease in that area, due to direct competition and crow nest are vulnerable to predation. Fox numbers will also decrease due to competition of available food. This will decrease predation on pheasant poults. It's called an ecosystem.

Varmint Shooter

Let's not forget the pheasant is not a native bird here. LOADS of pheasants around me, most are on land that's closed to hunting, as some lads still refuse to have respect for the land or it's owners

dodderangler

Varmint Shooter wrote: »

Let's not forget the pheasant is not a native bird here. LOADS of pheasants around me, most are on land that's closed to hunting, as some lads still refuse to have respect for the land or it's owners

12th century? I'd consider that native now. Same as the sika

Capercaille

dodderangler wrote: »

12th century? I'd consider that native now. Same as the sika

Might as well throw in Grey squirrel as well. All introduced by man so that makes them non-native.

blackpearl

don't forget the pike and roach,this non native is a load of bull ,hunting would be a poor sport in Ireland without the pheasant,to hell with it lets start releasing pine martins by the 100 a couple of wolves here and there trow in a couple of dozen goshawks and for good mesure a bear or 2 that should boost the natives against the non natives.

Capercaille

blackpearl wrote: »

don't forget the pike and roach,this non native is a load of bull ,hunting would be a poor sport in Ireland without the pheasant,to hell with it lets start releasing pine martins by the 100 a couple of wolves here and there trow in a couple of dozen goshawks and for good mesure a bear or 2 that should boost the natives against the non natives.

Pike I think have been proven to be native. Goshawk breeding in the Country, the sites are undisclosed for fear of persecution. As regards pheasant, it would be great if native game birds like Greg partridge, Red Grouse were common enough so they could be the main quarry birds and people were not reliant on worthless non-native species.

blackpearl

If we are going to wait for grouse and grey partridge numbers to come back up even your children or mine wont be shooting them ,and rembember something your precious snipe would be in big trouble only for the pheasant, most of the vermin control that goes on in this country is because of the pheasant also the shooting industry would suffer big time without the pheasant ,a lot of people would not bother going hunting and would probley give it up without the pheasant,less people involved in shooting the antis would just hate that,well to call these birds worthless I have to rest my case have not got time for this,have to get ready for morning PHEASANT SHOOTING ah how I love those non natives.