Scotland vs Argentina, Sat, 08/11/2014 - 17:30. Murrayfield. BBC 2

sydthebeat · 07-11-2014 1:21pm #1

Scotland

|

Argentina

*Denotes uncapped Player

Scotland

Scotland fans must hark for the halcyon days of the 80's and early 90's when, triple crowns, grand slams and RWC pool wins were expectations and not fantastical aspirations. They must consider the last 10 years to be some sort of earthly purgatory where they must writhe in pain at the consistency of poor performances pot marked with odd one off victories. Apart from a third place finish in 2013, due basically to an abysmal performance by Ireland in Murrayfield, Scotland have found themselves perennially floundering at bottom of the 6N vying with Italy for the wooden spoon.
Hammerings by wales and South Africa put an end to the Johnson era and when Vern Cotter was announced as future coach in 2014, Scottish fans must have hoping their 'hell on earth' era should be coming to an end...... but is it?

Cotter marks his first home competitive game with a team selection that, while missing some big reputations, is entirely merited in performances over the last 18 months. Its of no surprise that this team should be heavily laden with Glasgow Warriors, the form Pro 12 team of last year and arguably the form team of the ERC Cup this year. 11 of the starting 15 are Warriors, everyone from 10 to 15 is a Warrior, Greig Laidlaw being the exception.

Forwards
The popular talking point in the forwards is the first ever international locking down of the Brothers Gray. In the absence of captain Grant Gilchrist (broken arm) Jonny (20) and Richie (25) could possibly form a lock pairing for a generation, and in Jonny they have the raw materials for a legendary one. Richie "ruck inspector" Gray may have the higher profile but personally, i think will be under pressure from his brother to match his performance. Should this sibling pairing spark, the argies will do well to get any kind of quick ball.
Exiled big names, such as veterans Kelly Brown and John Barclay, are left out in favour of younger warriors in Adam Ashe and Rob Harley. The back row, finalised with London Irish' Blair Cowen, has a total 11 caps. Will this energetic, powerful, industrial row be a match for the more experienced but by no means aged Argentinian back row?
Backs
Mark Bennett makes his debut outside his club partner Alex Dunbar, in the only real talking point in the back line. The question here is "is the warrior back line, impressive in Pro 12 (behind an oft marauding pack) an international test back line?" Players like Jackson, Visser, etc have been put to the side and thankfully players have been picked on merit of performance, which may have missing during the Johnson era, and perhaps at the twilight of the Robinson era.
Scotland at last seem to have found an out half of some pedigree in Finn Russell. Perhaps the closest complete stand-off since Gregor Townsend that Scotland have found, its no wonder this player is going from strength to strength working under Townsend himself. Russell, at 22, has ousted both Jackson and Weir at both club and country level.
Hogg, Seymour and Maitland provide a running threat which will worry most teams. in Seymour they have a powerful line breaker who is very canny at popping up on his opposite wing to hit a line, something the argies will have to account for.

Argentina

So what of Argentina?
Currently ranked 10th in the world, 2 behind Scotland, Argentina are certainly 'on the up' in terms of team performances of the last few years. They are coming off the back of their first ever Rugby Championship win, an impressive 21 - 17 win over Australia in Mendoza. More so, however, coach Hourcade would have been buoyed by the performances in the other games. A points difference of -52 and 3 loosing bonus points, on top of their 4 points for the victory, resulted in their best performance to date in their 3 years in the the championship.

Argentina cannot be assessed by reflection on the games in the summer of 2014. They lost both games against Ireland by an average of 9 points, and lost by only 2 points against Scotland. However, that summer squad were shorn of most of their senior players who were rested for the championship. Only four of the team that lost narrowly to Scotland will appear on Saturday.

Forwards
The Argentina front row that faces up to a highly experienced Scottish one is well worn too. Herrera is the stand out newbie here with 8 caps, but both Creevy, captain and Ayerza (Leicester veteran) are old dogs.
Stade lock Juan Cruz Guillemai wins his first cap alongside Racing Metros Tomas Lavanini. The back row, without the herculean Lobbe, is a weak point with both Baez and Desio both Argentina based, while Senatore steps back to 8 from his usual flanker club position.

Backs
For years the Argentinian back line was seen as a weak point, but in this current squad it is most definitely its strong point. Nicolas Sanchez is an excellent out half, absolutely deadly off the tee, as shown in the fact he was the 2014 RC top scorer despite playing for the last placed team.
Wings Montero and Imhoff would grace most NH squads, montero being a 6' 4" ex basketball playing speedster with a eye for the line us irish found out over the summer. Jonny Sextons team mate Juan Imhoff is another over 6' deadly speedster with the step of a feral criollo stallion. Add to this Joaquin Tuculet who was excellent in both tests against ireland this summer, and thats a deadly back three.

Match ups
Russell V Sanchez
Two very attack minded out halves who are very comfortable attacking a line and putting it through the hands. They both have very competent wingers to aim at for cross field contestables and i see this as being a tactic employed early on in the game, to see where an advantage might be found. Both are excellent from the tee... so the only factor i see to differentiate between the two is how Russell will deal with his first home appearance in the Thisled shirt.

Gray x 2 v Lavanini + Guillemaín
This is an area i feel Scotland may have an advantage, depending on which Richie Gray turns up. His performances for scotland have been considered better than his club performances so i expect that to continue. Both grays also have a height advantage which will come in useful to disrupt the argentina line out, on which a lot of their attacking back play is based.
Close this down and scotland will seriously weakening the potency of the argie backs.

Bennett v Boshe
Boshe is anything but his onomatopoetic name, hes a silky operator who whos alway strong in defense. Between him and Hogg i expect to see some outlandish 50m + efforts on goal as well. Bennett is of a similar mould in that hes not a crash bang wallop out side centre, both him and marcello would be considered on the smaller side. It will be very interesting to see both these players unlock the opposition with their skills.

Prediction
Since 2010 (3 meets) there hasnt been more than 4 points between these teams, i dont expect that to change too rapidly. While this might not look like any kind of a glamour tie in comparison to the myriad of other games happening this weekend, it will be one of the more fascinating ones.
One team tangibly on the up and the other desperate to to begin like that.
Its this absolutely desperation to succeed that i think will cause Scotland to fall over the line, while Argentina might just be still warming in the afterglow of their win over Australia

scotland by 2

thomond2006 · 07-11-2014 1:57pm

If that weakened Argentina pack can provide a platform then 9-15 could do some serious damage. I'm surprised Landajo hasn't got a contract in Europe yet, although maybe he has a good job at home?

Mark Bennett is a player to follow. Clermont picked him as a teenager but he never made it there due to two serious knee injuries.

sydneybound · 07-11-2014 2:18pm

Thats a real weakened backrow and secondrow isn't it for Argentina? I suppose it'll be good experience for the younger lads. He seems to be putting his faith in the younger lads based in Argentina a lot more.

wp_rathead · 07-11-2014 3:10pm

Absolute pain way all these games clashing

Swiwi. · 07-11-2014 3:11pm

That's a beautiful preview syd. Once again, though, this match clashes with another. I don't understand it! The games should just start at 1pm and roll on one after the other, with the objective being to empty the crate of beer by the time the actions finishes in say France about 9pm.

sydthebeat · 07-11-2014 3:22pm

its one ill definitely be sky+ ing, and could take precedence over france at 9.
For most teams we're at RWC building time and i dont think we're going to see very much in France v Fiji that will be crossed over to the RWC, its very much a standalone game IMHO.

this game however i think will be very important for both in their preparations, lots of players are being handed opportunities here which could determine if they appear in a WC or not....

Swiwi. · 07-11-2014 3:24pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

its one ill definitely be sky+ ing, and could take precedence over france at 9.
For most teams we're at RWC building time and i dont think we're going to see very much in France v Fiji that will be crossed over to the RWC, its very much a standalone game IMHO.

this game however i think will be very important for both in their preparations, lots of players are being handed opportunities here which could determine if they appear in a WC or not....

And Ireland could be meeting Argentina in a 1/4 final. This should be a close game.

matthew8 · 08-11-2014 6:58pm

Scotland up 34-10, doing much better than the big 3 did. They have a great record vs. the SH.

Fireball07 · 08-11-2014 7:33pm

matthew8 wrote: »

Scotland up 34-10, doing much better than the big 3 did. They have a great record vs. the SH.

We didn't do too badly either :cool:

Cosmo Kramer · 08-11-2014 7:58pm

Was half watching this on the laptop with our game on TV. From what I saw Scotland look like a half decent work in progress with a bit of potential to kick on.

Bridge93 · 08-11-2014 8:15pm

The new Scotland! 41 points is very impressive especially with their try record.

mfceiling · 08-11-2014 9:50pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Scotland
|
Argentina

01: Alasdair Dickinson|01: Marcos Ayerza
02: Ross Ford |02: Agustín Creevy (c)
03: Euan Murray|03: Ramiro Herrera
04: Richie Gray|04: Juan Cruz Guillemaín*
05: Jonny Gray|05: Tomás Lavanini
06: Robert Harley|06: Rodrigo Báez
07: Blair Cowan|07: Javier Ortega Desio
08: Adam Ashe |08: Leonardo Senatore
|
09: Greig Laidlaw (c)|09: Martín Landajo
10: Finn Russell|10: Nicolás Sánchez
11: Tommy Seymour|11: Manuel Montero
12: Alex Dunbar|12: Juan Martín Hernández
13: Mark Bennett*|13: Marcelo Bosch
14: Sean Maitland|14: Juan Imhoff
15: Stuart Hogg|15: Joaquín Tuculet
|
16: Scott Lawson|16: Matías Cortese
17: Gordon Reid|17: Lucas Noguera Paz
18: Geoff Cross|18: Nahuel Tetaz Chaparro
19: Jim Hamilton|19: Lucas Ponce
20: Alasdair Strokosch|20: Facundo Isa
21: Henry Pyrgos|21: Tomás Cubelli
22: Duncan Weir|22: Santiago González Iglesias
23: Sean Lamont|23: Horacio Agulla

*Denotes uncapped Player

Scotland

Scotland fans must hark for the halcyon days of the 80's and early 90's when, triple crowns, grand slams and RWC pool wins were expectations and not fantastical aspirations. They must consider the last 10 years to be some sort of earthly purgatory where they must writhe in pain at the consistency of poor performances pot marked with odd one off victories. Apart from a third place finish in 2013, due basically to an abysmal performance by Ireland in Murrayfield, Scotland have found themselves perennially floundering at bottom of the 6N vying with Italy for the wooden spoon.
Hammerings by wales and South Africa put an end to the Johnson era and when Vern Cotter was announced as future coach in 2014, Scottish fans must have hoping their 'hell on earth' era should be coming to an end...... but is it?

Cotter marks his first home competitive game with a team selection that, while missing some big reputations, is entirely merited in performances over the last 18 months. Its of no surprise that this team should be heavily laden with Glasgow Warriors, the form Pro 12 team of last year and arguably the form team of the ERC Cup this year. 11 of the starting 15 are Warriors, everyone from 10 to 15 is a Warrior, Greig Laidlaw being the exception.

Forwards
The popular talking point in the forwards is the first ever international locking down of the Brothers Gray. In the absence of captain Grant Gilchrist (broken arm) Jonny (20) and Richie (25) could possibly form a lock pairing for a generation, and in Jonny they have the raw materials for a legendary one. Richie "ruck inspector" Gray may have the higher profile but personally, i think will be under pressure from his brother to match his performance. Should this sibling pairing spark, the argies will do well to get any kind of quick ball.
Exiled big names, such as veterans Kelly Brown and John Barclay, are left out in favour of younger warriors in Adam Ashe and Rob Harley. The back row, finalised with London Irish' Blair Cowen, has a total 11 caps. Will this energetic, powerful, industrial row be a match for the more experienced but by no means aged Argentinian back row?
Backs
Mark Bennett makes his debut outside his club partner Alex Dunbar, in the only real talking point in the back line. The question here is "is the warrior back line, impressive in Pro 12 (behind an oft marauding pack) an international test back line?" Players like Jackson, Visser, etc have been put to the side and thankfully players have been picked on merit of performance, which may have missing during the Johnson era, and perhaps at the twilight of the Robinson era.
Scotland at last seem to have found an out half of some pedigree in Finn Russell. Perhaps the closest complete stand-off since Gregor Townsend that Scotland have found, its no wonder this player is going from strength to strength working under Townsend himself. Russell, at 22, has ousted both Jackson and Weir at both club and country level.
Hogg, Seymour and Maitland provide a running threat which will worry most teams. in Seymour they have a powerful line breaker who is very canny at popping up on his opposite wing to hit a line, something the argies will have to account for.

Argentina

So what of Argentina?
Currently ranked 10th in the world, 2 behind Scotland, Argentina are certainly 'on the up' in terms of team performances of the last few years. They are coming off the back of their first ever Rugby Championship win, an impressive 21 - 17 win over Australia in Mendoza. More so, however, coach Hourcade would have been buoyed by the performances in the other games. A points difference of -52 and 3 loosing bonus points, on top of their 4 points for the victory, resulted in their best performance to date in their 3 years in the the championship.

Argentina cannot be assessed by reflection on the games in the summer of 2014. They lost both games against Ireland by an average of 9 points, and lost by only 2 points against Scotland. However, that summer squad were shorn of most of their senior players who were rested for the championship. Only four of the team that lost narrowly to Scotland will appear on Saturday.

Forwards
The Argentina front row that faces up to a highly experienced Scottish one is well worn too. Herrera is the stand out newbie here with 8 caps, but both Creevy, captain and Ayerza (Leicester veteran) are old dogs.
Stade lock Juan Cruz Guillemai wins his first cap alongside Racing Metros Tomas Lavanini. The back row, without the herculean Lobbe, is a weak point with both Baez and Desio both Argentina based, while Senatore steps back to 8 from his usual flanker club position.

Backs
For years the Argentinian back line was seen as a weak point, but in this current squad it is most definitely its strong point. Nicolas Sanchez is an excellent out half, absolutely deadly off the tee, as shown in the fact he was the 2014 RC top scorer despite playing for the last placed team.
Wings Montero and Imhoff would grace most NH squads, montero being a 6' 4" ex basketball playing speedster with a eye for the line us irish found out over the summer. Jonny Sextons team mate Juan Imhoff is another over 6' deadly speedster with the step of a feral criollo stallion. Add to this Joaquin Tuculet who was excellent in both tests against ireland this summer, and thats a deadly back three.

Match ups
Russell V Sanchez
Two very attack minded out halves who are very comfortable attacking a line and putting it through the hands. They both have very competent wingers to aim at for cross field contestables and i see this as being a tactic employed early on in the game, to see where an advantage might be found. Both are excellent from the tee... so the only factor i see to differentiate between the two is how Russell will deal with his first home appearance in the Thisled shirt.

Gray x 2 v Lavanini + Guillemaín
This is an area i feel Scotland may have an advantage, depending on which Richie Gray turns up. His performances for scotland have been considered better than his club performances so i expect that to continue. Both grays also have a height advantage which will come in useful to disrupt the argentina line out, on which a lot of their attacking back play is based.
Close this down and scotland will seriously weakening the potency of the argie backs.

Bennett v Boshe
Boshe is anything but his onomatopoetic name, hes a silky operator who whos alway strong in defense. Between him and Hogg i expect to see some outlandish 50m + efforts on goal as well. Bennett is of a similar mould in that hes not a crash bang wallop out side centre, both him and marcello would be considered on the smaller side. It will be very interesting to see both these players unlock the opposition with their skills.

Prediction
Since 2010 (3 meets) there hasnt been more than 4 points between these teams, i dont expect that to change too rapidly. While this might not look like any kind of a glamour tie in comparison to the myriad of other games happening this weekend, it will be one of the more fascinating ones.
One team tangibly on the up and the other desperate to to begin like that.
Its this absolutely desperation to succeed that i think will cause Scotland to fall over the line, while Argentina might just be still warming in the afterglow of their win over Australia

scotland by 2

Is this possibly the greatest ever word typed on a rugby preview?

ONOMATOPOETIC!!

sydthebeat · 08-11-2014 9:54pm

Ssshhhhhh

I actually spelt it wrong but was hoping no one would notice

Scotland vs Argentina, Sat, 08/11/2014 - 17:30. Murrayfield. BBC 2

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