Horse owners busy felling sycamore trees

Hugh 2

I hear that horse owners are busy felling trees due to recent relevations about horses being poisoned by the seeds of the sycamore tree

Viewtodiefor

Hugh 2 wrote: »

I hear that horse owners are busy felling trees due to recent relevations about horses being poisoned by the seeds of the sycamore tree

Less blocked gutters so :-)

Feckthis

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Less blocked gutters so :-)

No more helicopters ha

Bullocks

Thats mad , how many horses are supposed to have died ? To be honest I would prefer to see a few less horses in the country rather than trees

severeoversteer

and I will plant them to get a rid of a few horses hopefully!:D

Birdnuts

A bit of an over reaction. I grew up in bloodstock country and never heard of this issue with sycamore trees. Plenty of them growing around stud farms in most parts of the country.Must have been an unusual set of circumstances along the line of said horses not having access to other forage and gorging on them to a freak extent

Dawggone

I always thought that acorns were the problem with bloodstock.

I've always had horses and never had a problem with sycamore.

convert

From reading the rather short and vague reports that covered it, it mostly seemed to be horses who were 'new' to fields with sycamore that were most severely impacted, while those who'd been in the field longer were mostly ok.

whisky_galore

Bullocks wrote: »

Thats mad , how many horses are supposed to have died ? To be honest I would prefer to see a few less horses in the country rather than trees

Yep, the 'love affair' the Irish have with the horse. :rolleyes:

Cran

over heard two guys from well known studs talking about this recently in the NCT centre of all places. One guy was going on about a fellas horse that died from it and said he'd never heard off it before until vet told him the story. He did say vet said only a risk where horses are run on bare ground at certain time of the year.

gozunda

Horse eating Sycamore seeds are developing a condition called equine atypical myopathy

Links here

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dozens-of-horses-die-after-eating-sycamore-seeds-1.1983773

http://www.troytowngreyabbey.com

sh1tstirrer

Won't they have to get a felling licence for that as it's illegal to fell any tree over 10 years old the law is in place since 1946. A better solution move them to a field with no sycamore trees.

Why such dislike of horses among farmers?

KatyMac

I have a mare who is at least 28 years old and she lives almost year round in a field completely surrounded by very large mature sycamore trees, if she dies any time soon do I blame the trees?

ihatewinter

Why such dislike of horses among farmers?

The reason is they absolutely destroy land, drain the land of nutrients and break out and into other people's land. Basically they're a pest.

I often have problems with horse owners near me, as their horses are left on a bare sod and then break into my fields and stray onto roads. Reasoning with them doesn't work, as many owners couldn't care less about fencing, so I end up fencing the feckers out.

mothoin

ihatewinter wrote: »

Why such dislike of horses among farmers?

.

ihatewinter wrote: »

Basically they're a pest.

Same could be said about farmers!

Mad4simmental

mothoin wrote: »

.

Same could be said about farmers!

Same could be said about townies that their clothes on their back, food on their table and drink in the bar wouldn't be possible without farmers.

Connemara Farmer

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Won't they have to get a felling licence for that as it's illegal to fell any tree over 10 years old the law is in place since 1946. A better solution move them to a field with no sycamore trees.

Why such dislike of horses among farmers?

Was wondering about the felling license myself. Though know some horsey owners who have had the law called on them when tantrums were thrown publicly, I won't go into details, so I doubt a silly licence thing would bother them.

I wouldn't be a fan of horses myself, I see them as a giant pet more than anything else. Fair enough if they are being worked, otherwise it's like having a giant cat that just eats and ****s more.

I don't like cats either

Sam Kade

Horses were once the backbone of farming shame on you lot :mad:
I suppose they are like the blacks they have been put out to pasture :eek:

gozunda

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

Won't they have to get a felling licence for that as it's illegal to fell any tree over 10 years old the law is in place since 1946. A better solution move them to a field with no sycamore trees.

Why such dislike of horses among farmers?

I'm wondering about that username tbh

The horse racing and breeding sector currently contributes c. €1bn annually to the Irish economy. http://www.air.ie/The%20Financing%20and%20Economic%20Contribution%20of%20Racecourses%20in%20Ireland%202013.pdf

This from Ask About Ireland

Despite its small size, Ireland holds a pre-eminent position in thoroughbred racing and breeding and in the equestrian world.

The Irish bloodstock breeding and racing industry is of major national importance in terms of employment (especially in rural areas) as well as in exports and tourism. The industry is worth hundreds of millions of euro of economic activity, sustaining jobs and a national network of racecourses, trainers, breeders and farms with an enviable skills base.

Irish horses are in demand worldwide, with exports to 40 countries. A long tradition of skilled horsemanship is a key reason, as is the fact that our limestone soils provide ideal grazing for healthy equine bone growth. Tax incentives for stallion farms introduced in 1969 helped encourage major investment in stud operations.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/enfo/sustainable-living/farming-in-ireland-overvi/equine/

Now I think 'some' posters are referring to a certain type of horse - most likely the Common Spotted Shaggy Pony variety that tend to appear in fields like mushrooms.

On the other hand there are farmers who continue to keep and successfully breed horses in Ireland and the income of which significantly contributes to some farming enterprises.

Like any stock horses need to managed and kept correctly. There does seem to a view that horses destroy land however that mainly happens where some horses (ie the shaggy pony variety) are being dumped. Just like cattle horses need to be properly fenced, fed and housed when grass isn't growing and properly managed. Cattle / sheep etc can cause similar problems if not properly managed / looked after imo.

Even Horse manure itself is a valuable commodity as a fertiliser in the horticultural sector and is one of the best manures for improving soil fertility.

The issue is not horses per se - it is the irresponsible ownership of horses that sometimes causes problems. That said new registration and owner responsibilities will hopefully take care of a lot of such issues.

Now back to the issue of sycamore trees - Sycamore is a non native tree species in Ireland and in some situations may be invasive - colonising woods and scrub areas to the detriment of other tree species.

The current health issue with sycamore seeds is a worrying one considering the volume of seeds that an individual tree can produce.

It is of interest that the condition that is causing death amongst horses was only identified in Europe a number of years ago.

The abundant crop of sycamore seeds this year has been identified as one of the issues - in that many fields with sycamore trees have large quantities of these seeds falling into grazing areas,

There doesn't appear to have been any links with cattle or sheep yet however all livestock owners might want to keep an eye on this one ...

DarByrne1980

im a bit late at this thread but felling the trees seems like a drastic move. What if your land backs onto fields which have other sycamore trees which you dont own or dont have a license for. How far can those little helicopter seeds travel anyway

greysides

Given the year that's in it, I'd have thought Acorn Poisoning would be a more pertinent topic of conversation.

Seems a pity to be cutting down mature trees for the sake of fencing them off for a while.

gozunda

greysides wrote: »

Given the year that's in it, I'd have thought Acorn Poisoning would be a more pertinent topic of conversation.

Seems a pity to be cutting down mature trees for the sake of fencing them off for a while.

What is interesting is that some prior studies have identified this condition in horses as being similar to Blackleg in cattle. It is also of note that this condition has only been recently identified.

I agree that horse owners should fence off any areas that are heavily covered in sycamore seeds / helicopters as a first line of defence.

Hugh 2

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/national/sycamore-seed-toxin-linked-to-200-horse-deaths/ar-BBmFJNk?ocid=spartandhp

Horse owners have been warned about an agonising autumn disease which killed more than 200 horses and ponies here last year.

Ave Sodalis

DarByrne1980 wrote: »

im a bit late at this thread but felling the trees seems like a drastic move. What if your land backs onto fields which have other sycamore trees which you dont own or dont have a license for. How far can those little helicopter seeds travel anyway

I know it's a year on but given it has cropped up again...

Atypical Myopathy (which is the muscular disease caused by ingestion of seeds) is a very cruel disease. Horses suffer a huge amount with it before dying a painful death. It has a very high mortality rate (75-90%). The poison is not only in Sycamore trees but in all Acer trees (Sycamore, Elder, Maple) however, sycamore seems to be the main offender in Europe, with Elder being the main offended in America. It is not present in all trees and not all seeds on a particular tree will have it. The seeds can blow a fair bit on a windy day with seeds being found up to a mile from the source. There's a lot of factors that caused it, such as bare land, weather conditions and a big enough dose of the poison to cause ATM.

Why were the trees cut down? Mostly due to panic. Here comes a fatal disease which is affecting horses in large numbers, with the vast majority suffering a painful death. They know relatively little about the disease, with most of it being misdiagnosed as severe colic as the vets don't know enough about it to tell the difference. The first thing they find out is the source of it and for a long time, this is the only thing they know about it. There is no treatment bar pumping a load of fluids into the horse (due to the fact they lose control over their bladder, and they sweat buckets) and hoping for the best. So there's a severe, untreatable disease and the only thing they know about it is that it mainly comes from a poison in Sycamores. So people work with what little they know. Moving a horse to a pasture without Sycamore may not be possible for many people and seeds can travel far. The only other option was to move all horses indoors and give them restricted pasture, but this disease could be about indefinitely and it would mean closing otherwise perfectly good fields early, and having poorer developed young stock. The cutting of trees is regrettable and as a tree lover, I loathed to see it but I've also seen the effects of ATM.

CloughCasey1

I've just read this thread for the first time. I like horses! I like going to races in ballinrobe and odd time in Galway. I like watching showjumping at local shows and gymkanas. Myself and missus the odd time while away head to places where you they have stables beside the beach. They at their prime are lovely animals.

On the flip side. The pricks that own the lower grade of horse and have no respect for them, neighbouring farmers, the land they are destroying etc etc are the problem not the poor animals. the dislike for horses from farmers comes from this. Back in the day horses were worked on the farms and looked after well but there wasn't many horses that were not in everyday use. In a country that earns so much through horses and has so much employment from the equine industry it is a shame to say thay 85% of horses are looked after like absolute ****e. Don't blame the animal blame the scum that owns them.

TheFin

Above report says:
"only one case reported in 2013" and "one fatal case of equine atypical myopathy recorded in Ireland earlier this year, "

Ave Sodalis

TheFin wrote: »

Above report says:
"only one case reported in 2013" and "one fatal case of equine atypical myopathy recorded in Ireland earlier this year, "

Yes? The problem only suddenly arose last year.

greysides

I live in a an area with a lot of horses. I've not heard of many trees being felled or many horses being affected. At least, not in numbers that would have the news reach my ears. I imagine the deaths in horses from Ragwort Poisoning if available would out-number these deaths though. This is a new disease and there may be more factors involved than over-eating sycamore seeds (factors that increase the levels of toxin in the seeds etc).
I think it's no harm at all to be aware of the problem and to take mitigation action. Acorns also poison horses but no one is cutting down them in big numbers. Knowledge and management would be the key things here so it's no harm at all to be reminded of the risk at this time of year.

Ave Sodalis

greysides wrote:

I live in a an area with a lot of horses. I've not heard of many trees being felled or many horses being affected. At least, not in numbers that would have the news reach my ears. I imagine the deaths in horses from Ragwort Poisoning if available would out-number these deaths though. This is a new disease and there may be more factors involved than over-eating sycamore seeds (factors that increase the levels of toxin in the seeds etc). I think it's no harm at all to be aware of the problem and to take mitigation action. Acorns also poison horses but no one is cutting down them in big numbers. Knowledge and management would be the key things here so it's no harm at all to be reminded of the risk at this time of year.

The thing is, the likes of acorns and Ragwort, they've always been known to be toxic. As a result, it's not often you see an Oak in with horses, or if you do, it's fenced off as acorns tend to fall near enough straight down. Ragwort is usually pulled and the live plant is ignored by horses. Sycamore was never known to be a danger until last year when all of a sudden, it was. However, the risk is not as big this year. The summer wasn't great so most horses have been taken off grass by now.