Mistake by District Court Clerk

osprey

A District Court Clerk was directed by a Judge to request reports from two relevant authorities. Two months later it transpired that the District Court Clerk had failed to act on the Judge's direction. As a result, the matter had to be adjourned. Could the plaintiff pursue the District Court Clerk?

Little CuChulainn

For what?

MarkAnthony

I *think* and I'm open to correction that you would need to initiate a judicial review in the High Court, the only likely outcome of which would be them told to get the documents. I'm very much open to correction on that and understand that it's not practically sensible, I present it only as an academic option.

osprey

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

For what?

Apologies for the vague post, to recap, the mistake made by the District Court Clerk resulted directly in the plaintiff not being reunited with their child.

Losty Dublin

osprey wrote: »

Apologies for the vague post, to recap, the mistake made by the District Court Clerk resulted directly in the plaintiff not being reunited with their child.

What will the Clerk be pursued for, though?

NoQuarter

MarkAnthony wrote: »

I *think* and I'm open to correction that you would need to initiate a judicial review in the High Court, the only likely outcome of which would be them told to get the documents. I'm very much open to correction on that and understand that it's not practically sensible, I present it only as an academic option.

Not so sure about this; JR being a review of the process of coming to a decision. This seems like a simple mistake.

Not sure what the remedy might be though but "not being reunited with a child" would seem to me to be an inconvenience moreso than strict damage so I wonder would there be a remedy at all other than to get the decision enforced at this stage or simply rectify the error.

osprey

osprey wrote: »

Apologies for the vague post, to recap, the mistake made by the District Court Clerk resulted directly in the plaintiff not being reunited with their child.

This is clearly quite emotive but the above needs a little clarification. At best it could only mean a delay in the possibility of the plaintiff being reunited with their child.

It is exceptionally unlikely that the actions of the Clerk could have directly lead to anything other than an adjournment, which is hardly uncommon.

MarkAnthony

NoQuarter wrote: »

Not so sure about this; JR being a review of the process of coming to a decision. This seems like a simple mistake.

Not sure what the remedy might be though but "not being reunited with a child" would seem to me to be an inconvenience moreso than strict damage so I wonder would there be a remedy at all other than to get the decision enforced at this stage or simply rectify the error.

I was more thinking of bringing a JR to force the decision - which I believe can be done but could be wrong. The child issue came subsequent to my post and can't see any action there but again very much open to correction.

nuac

A JR over an adjournment, because of loss of some time with a child?

Mad, Ted

MarkAnthony

nuac wrote: »

A JR over an adjournment, because of loss of some time with a child?

Mad, Ted

Careful now,

I did indicate it was not an advised course of action.

TheNog

osprey wrote: »

Could the plaintiff pursue the District Court Clerk?

Only if she is good looking

Pixie Chief

I think maybe the point the OP is making is that the failure to complete the direction of the judge resulted in delayed access to or return of child to a parent. I don't have any legal insight to offer but I do feel for them. I wouldn't call it an 'inconvenience' by any stretch to have child/parent access delayed by clerical errors, esp if it were my children taken! On a human level, OP, it's completely unacceptable and the stuff of nightmares - I'm sure a minor delay in such a case would be desperately traumatic for parent and child. Reading the above, doesn't seem actionable from a legal standpoint though. Any way to speed up the process for next hearing, anyone? Is there case management in District Court? If so, could they appeal for next earliest date on these grounds?

bisset

Suppose the District Court Clark was expected to write to Tusla and request a report and did not do so for whatever reason. This may have led to a delay in the court reaching a decision. However it is entirely possible that there might have been a delay at the Tulsa end anyway so it is by no means certain that the report would have been available for the date requested.

Mr. Incognito

Are you asking can a civil servant be disciplined in ireland for being lazy and incompetent?

No. Ask the unions why.

osprey

Pixie Chief wrote: »

I think maybe the point the OP is making is that the failure to complete the direction of the judge resulted in delayed access to or return of child to a parent. I don't have any legal insight to offer but I do feel for them. I wouldn't call it an 'inconvenience' by any stretch to have child/parent access delayed by clerical errors, esp if it were my children taken! On a human level, OP, it's completely unacceptable and the stuff of nightmares - I'm sure a minor delay in such a case would be desperately traumatic for parent and child. Reading the above, doesn't seem actionable from a legal standpoint though. Any way to speed up the process for next hearing, anyone? Is there case management in District Court? If so, could they appeal for next earliest date on these grounds?

You addressed my post rather well, you've rather better relayed the point I'm getting at.

Pixie Chief

osprey wrote: »

You addressed my post rather well, you've rather better relayed the point I'm getting at.

Whilst rather ironically being completely unhelpful :eek:There may not be anything to be done from a legal point of view but there is often something that can be done from a human point of view. If I were the parent, I think I'd approach the relevant court office and in a 'please, please help me' way rather than a finger pointing approach, see if there were anything that could be done to get this back in the court asap? Might be a stupid answer but it's the only one I have!

osprey

Pixie Chief wrote: »

Whilst rather ironically being completely unhelpful :eek:There may not be anything to be done from a legal point of view but there is often something that can be done from a human point of view. If I were the parent, I think I'd approach the relevant court office and in a 'please, please help me' way rather than a finger pointing approach, see if there were anything that could be done to get this back in the court asap? Might be a stupid answer but it's the only one I have!

It's two years on from the event at this point, stenographer notes confirm that the clerk failed under the Judge's direction to obtain reports between sittings (a two month window) I'm being told at this point that the clerk's in-action amounts to professional negligence.

osprey

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

For what?

Professional negligence.

MarkAnthony

osprey wrote: »

It's two years on from the event at this point, stenographer notes confirm that the clerk failed under the Judge's direction to obtain reports between sittings (a two month window) I'm being told at this point that the clerk's in-action amounts to professional negligence.

I'd hope that person is a solicitor and in that case you don't really need any further information from this thread. I wish you the best OP but this is very much going to turn on it's own facts and I suspect will be a uphill battle.

Mr. Incognito

osprey wrote: »

Professional negligence.

Thats not professional negligence.

445279.ie

osprey wrote: »

It's two years on from the event at this point, stenographer notes confirm that the clerk failed under the Judge's direction to obtain reports between sittings (a two month window) I'm being told at this point that the clerk's in-action amounts to professional negligence.

There are no stenographers in the District Court!

Peregrinus

Professional negligence?

Unlike your lawyer or your accountant, the District Court clerk doesn't work for you, and he doesn't owe his duties to you in the same way that your lawyer or your accountant do.

What you are suggesting is equivalent to suing an individual guard because due to his want of care the guards were later arriving at an incident than they ought to have been, and you suffered loss as a result. Or suing the postman because his late delivery of the mail meant you missed out on some valuable opportunity.

Depending on the circumstances, you may or may not have an action against the State when a State agency fails to perform as it should and you suffer loss as a result. Separately, the State may or may not be in a position to take disciplinary or other proceedings against a state employee who hasn't done his job properly - that's not your problem. But there's no direct relationship between you and the district court clerk which would allow you to seek a remedy from him. Plus, the State is the better mark for damages.

FreudianSlippers

TheNog wrote: »

Only if she is good looking

Spoiler alert, she isn't.

osprey

445279.ie wrote: »

There are no stenographers in the District Court!

I would not know. The stenographer notes were made available from the circuit court sitting in Mayo. The case went from family law into criminal law for an entirely separate reason.

osprey

Hello, I've looked on courts.ie for information on how one would go about making a complaint, in relation to the failures of a particular Court clerk. I can find no way of doing so, can anybody advise? Many thanks.

nuac

Isn't there a thread here already about this?

Pat Mustard

Mod:

Posts from new thread moved to this thread instead.

I think that we can keep this whole issue in one thread. Opening new threads on the same subject doesn't benefit legal discussion on the forum.

FreudianSlippers

osprey wrote: »

Hello, I've looked on courts.ie for information on how one would go about making a complaint, in relation to the failures of a particular Court clerk. I can find no way of doing so, can anybody advise? Many thanks.

How do you know the request was never made?

osprey

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

How do you know the request was never made?

The Judge said it. Two public bodies confirm it and two sets of solicitors notes contain it.

Pat Mustard

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