Strobe style bicycle lights

RandomAccess

So has anyone else noticed the arms race amongst cyclists for the most powerful led front light with the most intense strobe flash frequency?

I find them quite distracting in my rear view.
Anybody else find that?

ba_barabus

RandomAccess wrote: »

So has anyone else noticed the arms race amongst cyclists for the most powerful led front light with the most intense strobe flash frequency?

I find them quite distracting in my rear view.
Anybody else find that?

Well having been knocked off my bike again this evening I can fully understand it. Lights on, high viz vet, reflectors in place and positioning good I got hit by a taxi driver who decided to turn left with no indicators and without looking in his mirror. He got out and decided to complain about the big scratch I made in his rear passenger door before I told him to go............well you can figure out that part.

I'm investing in more strobe lights. I've already missed a week of work after being knocking down the last time.

If you were driving between Donnybrook and Harolds Cross between 7:30 and 8:15 it could have been me. I had the front light angled up after being hit again so I couldn't be missed.

As a driver I do take your point but seeing it from the other side now I can empatise with people who do it.

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly

I got knocked off last week on a cycle path. It's dangerous being a cyclist hence the flashing lights which, if they are distracting, are working...

ba_barabus

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

I got knocked off last week on a cycle path. It's dangerous being a cyclist hence the flashing lights which, if they are distracting, are working...

I'd actually appreciate being able to use the light for it's proper use but needs must. I was in Holland last week where cycling in a major city was actually a pleasure.

RandomAccess

ba_barabus wrote: »

Well having been knocked off my bike again this evening I can fully understand it. Lights on, high viz vet, reflectors in place and positioning good I got hit by a taxi driver who decided to turn left with no indicators and without looking in his mirror. He got out and decided to complain about the big scratch I made in his rear passenger door before I told him to go............well you can figure out that part.

I'm investing in more strobe lights. I've already missed a week of work after being knocking down the last time.

If you were driving between Donnybrook and Harolds Cross between 7:30 and 8:15 it could have been me. I had the front light angled up after being hit again so I couldn't be missed.

As a driver I do take your point but seeing it from the other side now I can empatise with people who do it.

Hope you're on the mend.


I found this thread in boards cycling where a few cyclists are noticing over bright lights too. It's the crazy strobes that are getting to me, I don't mind normal flashing.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055695211&page=2

But I did get very distracted the other day by a flashing high-intensity front light on a bike approaching me. I did think it was too much. I had to turn my gaze away a little so as not to be dazzled. The light wasn't facing the ground, but absolutely horizontal.

i got a fellow cyclist give out to me , that my front lights where too bright ?

Interslice

RandomAccess wrote: »

So has anyone else noticed the arms race amongst cyclists for the most powerful led front light with the most intense strobe flash frequency?

I find them quite distracting in my rear view.
Anybody else find that?

Know exactly what your on about. Seen some gob****e in cork the other day with one while I was driving across town. It was like laser beams coming out of the thing. Made worse by being a head torch too shining all over the shop including into my eyes. I was facing him a good 60metres away and 3 lanes over. Appeared more likely to cause an accident by blinding/distracting drivers. It wouldn't be near as bad of it were mounted on the handle bars and aligned like a cars lights.

I cycle across town myself btw. High vis, and normal little pound shop flashing LED's front and back. I cycle with the mindset that I'm dressed all in black with no lights and no one checks there mirrors!

cerastes

I just realised this recently, probably with the change to winter and the clocks going back, so maybe they werent so prevelant last year.

My issue was, cyclist on a cycle path coming towards traffic (cycle lane on the path) it should blatantly obvious to the moron cycling towards traffic that they are blinding oncoming drivers, it'd be worse if they doing it on a cycle lane tacked onto the side of the road, which I have seen cyclists use cycle lanes on roads where contra flow is not indicated.

RandomAccess

Roger Mellie Man on the Telly wrote: »

if they are distracting, are working...

But that assumes you are the cyclist doing the dazzling,

If we assume that someone has a strobe bright enough to distract, then it stands to reason that some other cyclist in front or alongside the motorist may be put in greater risk.

The argument of having the brightest flashing lights, is a bit like the argument to have the heaviest SUV in the US so you are safest in a collision, selfish really.

No good will come of this, in short.

ba_barabus

RandomAccess wrote: »

Hope you're on the mend.


I found this thread in boards cycling where a few cyclists are noticing over bright lights too. It's the crazy strobes that are getting to me, I don't mind normal flashing.

My knee and shoulders are still not right but it was only 3 weeks ago.

I've seen people with lights fitted to the forks with odd flashing patterns that stand out without being blinding. It's not really fair to blind or dazzle others but when drivers, professional ones at that, aren't bothered checking one of the 3 mirrors they have or looking over their shoulder you really have to go to lengths to make yourself visible. My helmet took the brunt of the last incident thank god but it brought it home to me just how vulnerable I am and how little people look out for others.

I'm not a militant cyclist either. I much prefer the car and my old Raleigh has seen better days but some drivers take the piss with the lack of attention they pay. I could go on but the past few weeks have been an eye opener for me.

Turbulent Bill

ba_barabus wrote: »

I've seen people with lights fitted to the forks with odd flashing patterns that stand out without being blinding. It's not really fair to blind or dazzle others but when drivers, professional ones at that, aren't bothered checking one of the 3 mirrors they have or looking over their shoulder you really have to go to lengths to make yourself visible. My helmet took the brunt of the last incident thank god but it brought it home to me just how vulnerable I am and how little people look out for others.

The thing is, if drivers aren't observant than no amount of lights will help. For the most part you just have to assume invisibility to others and cycle accordingly.

Road positioning and planning is also far more important for cyclists than motorists. I used to commute by bike, and being assertive (not aggressive) was the key to staying safe. I saw cyclists doing insane things that they would never do as motorists, mostly out of ignorance.

Hope you're feeling better.

cerastes

OSI wrote: »

Your most expensive bike lights will put out 1,500 lumens at most. The vast majority you'll see on the road will be half that or less. HID lights can put out 3,000+. If you're getting blinded by bike lights, you're being blinded by car lights to.

So what you're saying is, anyone that says this is wrong?
I must not have been blinded by that bike the other night? it was one cyclist following another on a bicycle path on a lit road? what need is there for a cyclist to not have common sense? to cycle towards oncoming traffic with a white strobe light on.

I dont cycle anymore not on roads, its too dangerous, Ive been knocked off myself, my biggest gripe about cyclists is doing stupid stuff that makes them less visible or that doesnt allow a driver time to react, not to say drivers dont do loads of stupid stuff.

I think its the strobe effect, that isnt the case with cars, when it goes off, you're left with nightblindness, Id also says its the height the lights are at on handlebars which is higher than the bonnet of a car where a cars lights are. That you arent likely to be driving directly towards traffic (right face on) ie as the beams of cars dont (shouldnt) point into the other side of the road or that cars, mostly going through the NCT annually dont have their lights pointed into peoples faces? some cars do have blinding lights, I wouldnt say most do anymore.

So no you wouldnt necessarily be blinded by cars lights.

edit, the difference between the two bikes was obvious, the guy following had the really bright light

Interslice

OSI wrote: »

Your most expensive bike lights will put out 1,500 lumens at most. The vast majority you'll see on the road will be half that or less. HID lights can put out 3,000+. If you're getting blinded by bike lights, you're being blinded by car lights to.

They're not quite as bright as a 6000k car bulb no but those are aligned, most of the time... The first sign of this cylist I seen was the canopy of trees directly to my right being lit up. They were about 150m in front of him. I was distracted for no reason. Thought it was an ambulance for a second. I'd imagine if he shone that light directly into my passenger mirror when I was looking into it I be fairly blinded and reluctant to look back into it again until he had ****ed off. Maybe it's just me, I can't ****ing stand them 9000ishk xenons cnuts have, projectors or not. If you get them straight into your eyes coming over to the brow of a hill or when a jeep is driving up your hole lighting up all your mirrors I get rightly pissed off.

Tragedy

OSI wrote: »

Your most expensive bike lights will put out 1,500 lumens at most. The vast majority you'll see on the road will be half that or less. HID lights can put out 3,000+. If you're getting blinded by bike lights, you're being blinded by car lights to.

There are so many things wrong in such a short a post that I'm struggling with where to begin.

Lumens is raw output (luminous flux). Candelas is the measurement of how bright the beam in a given direction is. LED lights on car headlights always have vastly lower luminous flux than xenons (d1s or d2s being 3200w +/- 450w or so) but the output is far more focused and directed, resulting in similar or indeed superior candelas.

A standard reflector headlamp is scattering lumens over a huge area. A single Cree LED bike light running off AAA's pushing 500 lumens is going to be far more dazzling than even a projector xenon fitted with D2S.

Add to that that car headlight alignment is tested in the NCT, and that any xenon/HID system requires automatic self levelling - while anyone can angle a high powered bike light in any direction they like.....

Cookie_Monster

I've a major dislike for strobing front lights on bikes. I find them very blinding when oncoming and I will never ever use the strobe mode on mine for that very reason.

It also completely defeats the other purpose of lights, to enable you to see the road in front of you. (less of an issue in lit towns of course)

RandomAccess

OSI wrote: »

Your most expensive bike lights will put out 1,500 lumens at most. The vast majority you'll see on the road will be half that or less. HID lights can put out 3,000+. If you're getting blinded by bike lights, you're being blinded by car lights to.

I do occasionally get blinded by cars on full beam, but dipped lights are fine. They are not aimed at my eyes or my mirrors.

leeroybrown

Lights on a bike fulfil two purposes (1) to be seen and (2) to see. In most urban areas (2) is irrelevant so (1) becomes the sole priority. I'd much rather dazzle (or be dazzled slightly when driving) than have someone turn across me because they only really look out for cars. It might annoy a few drivers but my sole lighting goal on a bicycle is to be as noticable as possible.

JBokeh

I wonder is it better to have one high intensity light on a bike,or else many little ones to help being seen from the front? I've a pair of them silicone ones on my handle bars,they are for being seen,and i've a pretty bright one on the helmet for riding dark MTB trails with the early evenings,most certainly for seeing with. Got to know what to use when,though flashing rear lights are a must,the more the merrier too

There is a chap in cork with one of the really bright "seeing" lights,met him on the Modelfarm road,wouldn't be bad if he didn't have it pointed in such a way to blind people in jeeps,and not much use to him as it was pointed up. I know for a fact they have at least 3 brightness levels,and his was on full on portable sun mode!

The biggest problem is the beam pattern,they aren't like a cars which is designed for not shining into the cars coming against you,they are pretty much a hotspot,with a circle of less intense light around it

CiboC

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

The thing is, if drivers aren't observant than no amount of lights will help. For the most part you just have to assume invisibility to others and cycle accordingly.

Road positioning and planning is also far more important for cyclists than motorists.

Absolutely.

As a regular cycle commuter I am amazed at utterly stupid behaviour of other cyclists. I have avoided many incidents by being able to anticipate what a driver may do and being able to guess that they haven't seen me. I think having been a driver for many years too helps enormously with this.

When I see what other cyclists do I often wonder is righteous indignation enough of a consolation when you are nursing broken limbs later on....?

Wossack

fwiw I find it a lot harder to judge the distance of an oncoming road user (car/motorbike/bicycle) if Im being blinded by its lights

leeroybrown

Wossack wrote: »

fwiw I find it a lot harder to judge the distance of an oncoming road user (car/motorbike/bicycle) if Im being blinded by its lights

Strobe lights are harder to fix distance on as they're not a constant moving source. They are far more noticeable however. You get two different schools of thought regarding which is the best safety wise.

Alanstrainor

I wonder if there comes a point where more light isn't necessarily better...target fixation being a real danger if a driver is focused on an insanely bright light strobing or otherwise. I have multiple lights on my bike, but none have a strobe function, and the front puts about 150 lumens tops.

whomitconcerns

better than no lights...9pm last night i am driving and went to turn left from an unlit road..cyclist speeding up my inside and he bangs on my boot as i turn..he was going straight..from no where in teh dark no lights....

ciotog

I'm debating whether the flashing setting on mine may be distracting - will probably check it from a few angles over the weekend and see. To a certain extent, I'm tired of the close passes and my path being cut across while there's the complaining here and on radio about cyclists not being visible. As ba_barabus said above - you can go with the full lights/hi-vis/reflective kit and still get hit.

On the off-chance I'm a dazzler , I cycle between Blackrock and Killester (generally sometime between 18:30 - 19:30) Strand Rd -> East Link bridge route. Will alter lighting arrangements if there's (constructive) feedback.

Del2005

leeroybrown wrote: »

Lights on a bike fulfil two purposes (1) to be seen and (2) to see. In most urban areas (2) is irrelevant so (1) becomes the sole priority. I'd much rather dazzle (or be dazzled slightly when driving) than have someone turn across me because they only really look out for cars. It might annoy a few drivers but my sole lighting goal on a bicycle is to be as noticable as possible.

Human eyes can't gauge distance with a single light source. To make yourself more visible you need to create a triangle of lights.

Dazzling people in control of over a tonne of metal isn't a very good idea. A dazzled driver can't see properly and could hit another road user, hopefully only a fender bender but if it's a cyclist or pedestrian. Seen a cyclist a few months ago with the brightest lights I've ever seen in my life. It was the middle of a sunny day and his light actually hurt my eyes even when he was a few hundred metres from me, luckily I was stopped at lights.

Properly aimed lights don't dazzle anyone and you can still be seen. Badly aimed lights don't improve safety.

07Lapierre

Del2005 wrote: »

Properly aimed lights don't dazzle anyone and you can still be seen. Badly aimed lights don't improve safety.

+1 Nothing worse than a cyclist coming towards you with a high powered flashing light on his head! Blinding.. :mad:

leeroybrown

Del2005 wrote: »

Human eyes can't gauge distance with a single light source. To make yourself more visible you need to create a triangle of lights.

Dazzling people in control of over a tonne of metal isn't a very good idea. A dazzled driver can't see properly and could hit another road user, hopefully only a fender bender but if it's a cyclist or pedestrian. Seen a cyclist a few months ago with the brightest lights I've ever seen in my life. It was the middle of a sunny day and his light actually hurt my eyes even when he was a few hundred metres from me, luckily I was stopped at lights.

Properly aimed lights don't dazzle anyone and you can still be seen. Badly aimed lights don't improve safety.

In an urban environment (where I cycle) with lots of reference points gauging the distance isn't a serious problem for most people. If someone is dazzled enough to have a problem with 40 lumens of flashing white light on the front of my bicycle then they really need to get off the road in general. That's a pretty restrained light compared to what some people use and it's suitably aimed.

Spook_ie

leeroybrown wrote: »

In an urban environment (where I cycle) with lots of reference points gauging the distance isn't a serious problem for most people. If someone is dazzled enough to have a problem with 40 lumens of flashing white light on the front of my bicycle then they really need to get off the road in general. That's a pretty restrained light compared to what some people use and it's suitably aimed.

As you are behind the light source, you are hardly in a position to judge if you are or aren't dazzling anyone.

Cedrus

I had a cyclist coming towards me last winter with only a single strobe on an open wide curving road, I found it nearly impossible to work out how far away he was and therefore even what side of the road he was on. I wasn't dazzled, but I had nothing to focus on. One fixed light would have made him much safer as would have any attempt at all at a rear light.

Head mounted lights should be reserved for off road use, there is no place for them where they can be so easily aimed at another road user, even unintentionally.

cerastes

Im convinced its that most cyclists who use high intensity strobe or LED lights think its a case of more is better,
but dont seem to realise that car lights dont point into other car drivers faces generally.
Bike lights mounted higher and under no regulation at what angle is completely determined by the cyclist, which leaves them open to potentially blinding an oncoming driver, either obscuring a lot outside the light source as the eye of the driver adapts to the high intensity or alternating on/off of the light.

I appreciate cyclists may need brighter lights at some stage, but mostly, cyclists are on well lit roads or cycle paths (what there are of them) in urban areas which are lit, so the high intensity lights, either strobe or not, are not essential and in my opinion create a hazard, both to the driver and to the cyclist and others around.

Again, how fast are cyclists going that they need to see how far ahead of them? they really should point the lights down more so they can see whats coming for their wheel, rather than whats a long way down the road, resulting in blinding drivers no matter where they are relative to the cyclist.

As I described earlier, I saw two cyclists close together, I could see both of them oncoming on a cycle lane, the first one had a lower level light flashing, the next guy had a blinding light flashing. There wasnt a need for either to have lights on to see where they were going, on the cycle lane as they were facing oncoming traffic, the cyclepath/road was lit, the path was off the road, but at least the first guy wasnt burning my retinas.

I dont drive my car around into oncoming traffic with my high beams on, or into the face of oncoming pedestrians even, just so I can see as much as possible, its inconsiderate.
It doesnt help me be seen anymore than I am with my dipped lights on.
If Im on the motorbike, I dont leave the beams on either, and Im doing my best to watch out for cars that may not see me, first, I go around in dayglow garb as daft as it looks, I prefer to be seen, lights on but not beams unless required.

Im open to opinion as I havent used a high intensity strobe light on a bike, but how good is that in the dark or even on a lit road at lighting up ahead of the cyclist?? I mean, its on and off, if anything, Id prefer to see cyclists with a white low intensity light that flashes at the front and possibly if they feel the need for a lit up space in front of them, either a normal beam or a higher intensity beam used at a lower level, but pointed down a lot. Surely the battery'd last longer then too? As a former cyclist I did need light on dark roads (I had eveready twin D? battery lights clamped on my bike back then and got on fine)

I hope there wont be some prevelance of high intensity rear lights, although I do think luminous reflectors and clothing at the rear are great fro drivers to spot cyclists well in advance, along with a fixed red light and a flashing red light, the flashing red is good for drivers to recognise both the light and the cyclist and their movement, I dont believe the front one as high intensity light serves that same purpose, in fact I think its a hazard).

Del2005

Just last night got blinded by a guy on a mountain bike with a head light. It was grand when he was cycling normally with a lovely bright light for him to see anything on the road, but once he had to turn his head to check for traffic he had a blinding light shinning directly into every person on the roads eyes.

For cycling in urban environments cyclists don't need high intensity lights. A few cheap flashing lights are easily spotted and don't affect others. Sticking more lights on doesn't make you safer, motorbikes have had dipped beams on for years and still get SMIDSY from inattentive motorists, and could be putting you in more danger as you assume you're visible but that only works if people actually look which a lot of motorists don't do.

wendell borton

Inappropriate use of lights is rampant on the roads, if its not strobes, its fog lights, retina searing HIDS, excessive flashing lights on trucks, one eyed monsters etc etc.