Change of tactics for longer distances?

RonanP77

If I manage to get injury free my 2015 plan is to do my 1st HM and then DCM. I'm wondering if that means I should change tactics now.

My current times are;

5k - 22 mins
10k - 52 mins

My targets for longer runs;

HM - 2:05
DCM - 4:30

I know people will look at those times and think it's poor PBs so far and poor targets but it's a start. Based on my progress before injury I know u could get just below 20 mins for the 5k next year if I focused on that. I much prefer longer runs at a slower pace though.

I intend carrying on with Parkrun every Saturday without trying to better or even match my PB but other than that is there any point in doing 5k events next year or even 5k training runs?

Should I just slow back beyond my 10k pace now and slowly build up distances? I'd hope I'm less likely to get injured at a slower pace too but I could be wrong on that.

Chivito550

RonanP77 wrote: »

If I manage to get injury free my 2015 plan is to do my 1st HM and then DCM. I'm wondering if that means I should change tactics now.

My current times are;

5k - 22 mins
10k - 52 mins

My targets for longer runs;

HM - 2:05
DCM - 4:30

I know people will look at those times and think it's poor PBs so far and poor targets but it's a start. Based on my progress before injury I know u could get just below 20 mins for the 5k next year if I focused on that. I much prefer longer runs at a slower pace though.

I intend carrying on with Parkrun every Saturday without trying to better or even match my PB but other than that is there any point in doing 5k events next year or even 5k training runs?

Should I just slow back beyond my 10k pace now and slowly build up distances? I'd hope I'm less likely to get injured at a slower pace too but I could be wrong on that.

Why have you got such slow targets for half marathon and full marathon if you can run 22 mins for 5k?

TFBubendorfer

Chivito550 wrote: »

Why have you got such slow targets for half marathon and full marathon if you can run 22 mins for 5k?

Agree, and your 10k time is shocking compared to your 5k time. A 22 min 5k runner should be able to run 10k in under 46 minutes.

How are you training at the moment? Blasting 5k at your best pace most of the time by any chance?

RonanP77

I'm not training much at the moment. I had been just running 5k at race pace for every training session earlier in the year, I ran one 10k then got injured and things have been very stoo-start since.

I had just come up with a training plan (thanks to lots of advice on my training log) to improve the way I was doing things but never got putting it into effect, that was about 3 months ago or so. I was going to mix it up a lot rather than all fast 5k sessions.

I'm setting low targets for the HM and DCM mainly out of guess work and figuring I'll need to do a pace of 6:20/km or slower to run that far.

TFBubendorfer

Have a look at the the macmillan calculator:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/

The equivalent times for a 22 min 5k are:

10k 45:41
HM 1:41:52
M 3:34:22

Even if you keep in mind that few manage to run their marathon equivalents, your targets should be a lot more ambitious than they are.

A training plan will have you run at different paces at different days. Blasting out 5ks at race pace is a sure-fire way to get injured. In fact, hammering most of your training runs, no matter what distance, is a sure-fire way to get injured. You need to slow down in training and save your hard running for the few days when the training plan calls for it. And since you asked, slowing down would mean running a lot slower than your 10k pace as well!

So yes, a change in tactics is definitely required. And running more but slower has a significantly lower injury risk.

clear thinking

Build up long runs gradually and only do them for 3 out of every 4 weeks at slow pace. if you are a regular at park runs do them at 85% effort, that'll be a 'tempo' run, race one every couple of months. do them in the different parks for a change. You will find the faster stuff easier breaking it up: one night / morning during the week do a 5k pace session - not 5k at race pace, but 1 minute x 10 with a minute slow in between, build up to 1min x 15, then 2 minutes x 4 times with 2 minutes slow in between, build up to 8 reps, and progress again with 3 minutes reps and rests, start with 4 reps, build up to 3 mins x 5 then 3 mins x 6. After that just shorten recovery times by 5 - 10 seconds every few months and mix up the sessions between 1,2 and 3 minute repetitions. That is very much a basic marathon plan that will help you get quicker and more efficient across the board.

Clearlier

RonanP77 wrote: »

If I manage to get injury free my 2015 plan is to do my 1st HM and then DCM. I'm wondering if that means I should change tactics now.

My current times are;

5k - 22 mins
10k - 52 mins

My targets for longer runs;

HM - 2:05
DCM - 4:30

I know people will look at those times and think it's poor PBs so far and poor targets but it's a start. Based on my progress before injury I know u could get just below 20 mins for the 5k next year if I focused on that. I much prefer longer runs at a slower pace though.

I intend carrying on with Parkrun every Saturday without trying to better or even match my PB but other than that is there any point in doing 5k events next year or even 5k training runs?

Should I just slow back beyond my 10k pace now and slowly build up distances? I'd hope I'm less likely to get injured at a slower pace too but I could be wrong on that.

You need to set training targets Ronan not time targets for races. After you've been doing the training for a while you can start to think about what times you want to do in races as you come up to them.

Think about your training in terms of time rather than distance. If you can do 30 mins 3 times a week then bring that up to 35 mins 3 times a week, 3 weeks later increase it by another 5 mins. Vary your runs a little so that you're not just running slowly. Every week you could do a fartlek/tempo/interval session. If you want some sample sessions tell me what you can do at the moment.

Gently but steadily and consistently increase your training load. You'll be amazed at the progress you can make in 6 months.

RonanP77

Before I got injured I had drawn up this plan, based on advice from a few different people.

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - 6-8k easy
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - 5.5k steady, 1k warmup & 1k cooldown.
Friday - Rest.
Saturday 10k easy (increasing with time)
Sunday 40k+ cycle.

I never got doing it at all. Wednesdays are swimming lessons starting from next week and I don't cycle at this time of year. Saturdays are for Parkrun from now on but the intention is to do a few k of a warmup before it and a few k of a cooldown after it.

I'm going for a short 3-4k run this evening to test out ankle and calf (in 2 separate places) injuries, if any of them are still at me I'm going to ring the physio tomorrow.

Clearlier

RonanP77 wrote: »

Before I got injured I had drawn up this plan, based on advice from a few different people.

Monday - Rest
Tuesday - 6-8k easy
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - 5.5k steady, 1k warmup & 1k cooldown.
Friday - Rest.
Saturday 10k easy (increasing with time)
Sunday 40k+ cycle.

I never got doing it at all. Wednesdays are swimming lessons starting from next week and I don't cycle at this time of year. Saturdays are for Parkrun from now on but the intention is to do a few k of a warmup before it and a few k of a cooldown after it.

I'm going for a short 3-4k run this evening to test out ankle and calf (in 2 separate places) injuries, if any of them are still at me I'm going to ring the physio tomorrow.

So you want to run three times a week to include a park run. You'll also be swimming on Wednesdays (which is great for helping avoid injuries). For your three runs a week and bearing in mind your goals I'd recommend the following,

1 long run, time on your feet don't worry about speed.
1 run with about 1/3 of it at tempo effort (you can say a few words but you'd rather not talk)
1 run with about half of it at marathon pace effort (you can hold a conversation but it's a decent effort)

I'm not clear on how far you can run at the moment but it's important that you start at a level a bit lower than what you could do. You'll quickly surpass your current level.

You could use the park run for your tempo. This means that initially you won't be running all of the park run at tempo pace and some of it will need to be run at an easy pace. Ideally this would be from the start rather than towards the end as even if you're not racing it's a lot more motivating to pass people at the end of a race than to be passed by loads.

If you have a history of injuries then increase your training load cautiously. A 10% increase every two weeks is plenty aggressive enough with a down week every 5th week.

RonanP77

That's great, cheers. I'll start doing up a new plan to fit that all in.

Tom Joad

Why not join a club? Where in Cavan are you based??

RonanP77

I'm in Bailieborough, there are a few clubs about but I figured I wasn't good enough for a club. I'm 37 shortly and not terribly fast.

Tom Joad

RonanP77 wrote: »

I'm in Bailieborough, there are a few clubs about but I figured I wasn't good enough for a club. I'm 37 shortly and not terribly fast.

Not meaning to be blunt but that's rubbish !! Not involved in Bailieborough AC but they are a very welcoming bunch - you would be in the V1 category and I can guarantee you that you won't be at the back of the field. Bailieborough would be delighted to have you - check out their facebook page for training times.

RonanP77

V1, now that makes me feel OLD!!

I had a look at the Bailieborough AC facebook page and I recognise a few faces from local runs. I must fund out where they do their training.

I had a very brief spell at a GAA club 25 years ago but other than that I was never a member of any club.

Hannibal Smith

Ronan, just reading your threads and your log...I swear its like reading my own mind. I know what you mean about joining a club. ..its nothing bad against the club but you just feel you'd like to be a bit more confident/competent before rocking up? And the level you're at iais exactly where I am except you're faster, younger and chucking all sorts into the mix

Someone told me a few months ago to slow down my running and so extending the distance so when you stop its because your legs are tired not your lungs. I did that over the summer and now I could confidently stand at the start of a 10k run and know I can do it...my time maybe appalling. .but I'll still run the whole thing. I started cycling to work too...and the strength in my legs from the longer distances and cycling is unreal!

I injured my foot at the weekend and saw ecoli from here about it yesterday and I picked up so many great tips. I started recently to speed up at intervals in all my runs and he said to just do it on one of them and have the others fairly easy otherwise you'll get so tirednd your body won't have a chance to recover.

Anyhow I don't have any advice or anything but I get where you're at and wait till you see we'll be running 10ks in 35 mins this time next year

RonanP77

That's exactly it, a little more confident and competent. I kind of have the fear that if I show up they'll say "let's see what you can do" I'll run around a bit and they'll say "is that it? what the hell are you doing here"

Obviously that won't happen but you know what I mean.

Chivito550

RonanP77 wrote: »

That's exactly it, a little more confident and competent. I kind of have the fear that if I show up they'll say "let's see what you can do" I'll run around a bit and they'll say "is that it? what the hell are you doing here"

Obviously that won't happen but you know what I mean.

Personally I think you need to harden up a bit, and also think logically. You approach a club of a minority sport in a GAA dominant county and they turn you away?? No chance. Clubs in such areas are crying out for more members.

Hannibal Smith

RonanP77 wrote: »

That's exactly it, a little more confident and competent. I kind of have the fear that if I show up they'll say "let's see what you can do" I'll run around a bit and they'll say "is that it? what the hell are you doing here"

Obviously that won't happen but you know what I mean.

Hahaa..no, I've no idea what you mean...get yourself to a club you wuss!

(Only messing I understand )

RayCun

If you turned up to a football club, they might have a trial and tell you "You're not good enough to be on the team, and not good enough to be on the bench, so **** off" I don't know if a football club would ever actually do that
But its not the same in an athletics club. There's people of all standards, running because they enjoy it and want to get better, that's the only requirement.

Tom Joad

I can understand where you are coming from Ronan - I have the same doubts myself before joining a club 18 months ago but it was the best decision I have ever made in running terms. I do know a lot of the lads in Bailieborough and they are a very decent bunch and would be delighted to have you on board - there is no elitism or anything of the sort. I had a quick scan of recent results in the county and Bailieborough struggle to put out a full team at V1 level so get yourself down to training (Monday and Wednesday 7:30 at Castle Lake )- they are crying out for members.

RonanP77

That's decided then, I'm seeing the Physio next week and once she gives me the all clear I'm joining the athletics club.