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Adrenacaine

  • 04-11-2014 7:54pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭ karolmc100


    I purchased Adrenacine today,however it came with no leaflet and all it ays on the box is cattle 2-5ml.My query is in relation to what is the specfic dosage for different cattle is.Also is it suitable/strong enough for skulling cattle 9-12mth old



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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 Capercaille


    karolmc100 wrote: »
    I purchased Adrenacine today,however it came with no leaflet and all it ays on the box is cattle 2-5ml.My query is in relation to what is the specfic dosage for different cattle is.Also is it suitable/strong enough for skulling cattle 9-12mth old

    The local vet puts in 15ml into depression below horn. They might go mad if you just use 2-5ml.


  • Registered Users Posts: 276 ✭✭ karolmc100


    What do you mean when you say depression below the horn


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,641 ✭✭✭ kay 9


    karolmc100 wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say depression below the horn
    Between the eye and the horn is where the nerve is. We use 5ml each side and 99% of the time it works. The eyes should get lazy, check for sensitivity around base of horn before you go sawing though!! Give it time to work. Have a smoke and a chat with whomever is helping you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,282 Deepsouthwest


    kay 9 wrote: »
    Between the eye and the horn is where the nerve is. We use 5ml each side and 99% of the time it works. The eyes should get lazy, check for sensitivity around base of horn before you go sawing though!! Give it time to work. Have a smoke and a chat with whomever is helping you.

    No smoking in the workplace!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 14,244 ✭✭✭✭ Kovu


    Hi karolmc100, I really, really would recommend getting someone to do them for you. Not only is it a brutal and difficult job, there's risk of infection if it's not done correctly and cleanly. I take it you haven't done the job before and with the age of the animals,it may be best for the their safety (and yours!) to get a more experienced person in.
    As Adrenacaine is a POM, perhaps the vet who prescribed it could do the job.

    Below is the current Irish law;
    LEGAL AGE LIMITS FOR SURGICAL PROCEDURES WITHOUT ANALGESIA (IRELAND)
    B: Disbudding/Dehorning
    • Farmers (or Veterinary Practitioners/Nurses) may perform the disbudding / dehorning of:
    o cattle up to 15 days of age without use of anaesthesia or analgesia;
    o cattle between 15 and 28 days but only with use of appropriate local anaesthesia and analgesia (as per a veterinary prescription issued by the farmer’s Veterinary Practitioner in relation to the animals undergoing the procedure);
    o sheep and goats up to 8 days of age without use of anaesthesia or analgesia;
    • Irrespective of the legal allowance to not use local anaesthesia, for animal welfare reasons the use of local anaesthesia and appropriate analgesia should be encouraged by Veterinary Practitioners;
    For cattle over 28 days of age, and sheep and goats over 8 days of age, only a Veterinary Practitioner may disbud / dehorn, and in this case the Veterinary Practitioner must by law, use appropriate anaesthesia and analgesia.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Genghis Cant


    karolmc100 wrote: »
    What do you mean when you say depression below the horn

    Get the vet to show ya on a calf where to inject. Then you can do your own calves with confidence up to a month old. It's a very pronounced groove you're looking for. If you're shown correctly you'll fly it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,269 ✭✭✭ J.O. Farmer


    Get the vet to show ya on a calf where to inject. Then you can do your own calves with confidence up to a month old. It's a very pronounced groove you're looking for. If you're shown correctly you'll fly it.

    It's the occipital groove. It's a soft spot halfway from the base of the horn to the eye. Direct the injection towards the base of the horn.
    Back in the day when it was legal to dehorn weanlings we used about 10 ml each side. We used give it plenty of time to work. Maybe even have a drink of tae. The ears would be drooping and they'd be well deadened.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    Is this gone off the market of what’s the story?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,183 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Can you source an alternative, e.g Alfacaine 100 ml. There is another one, Lidocaine (I think that is the name) comes in larger size bottles (250 ml).

    I pull out the skin over the groove to inject (to avoid the vein). Had the Vet in this year to dishorn stronger ones and pleased to notice that he was doing the same.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,214 ✭✭✭ tanko


    I was just going to say that if you were looking for an artic load or two of Lidocaine to get in touch with the dentist from Love/Hate but then i remembered that he’s not a practicing dentist any more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭✭ Base price


    The Vets can't get Lidocaine anymore. We used to buy a few bottles of it every year to debud FR/FRx bull calves. Afaik Adrenacaine is also off the market in the south but it could be got up north over the counter up until Spring 2020. I got a bottle of LidoBel for to debud a few this year but was told to double the rate that I would normally use for Lidocaine and it worked fine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Yes that's the name LidoBell, we had better start enquiring - .



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,077 ✭✭✭✭ Base price




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    So by law you have to use something.


    but also by law you can’t get anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,122 ✭✭✭ Mooooo


    Got the vet in this year to do a few late ones, he knocked em out and had em all done very quickly, giving local as well. Will do em all this way this year id say



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    I'm using Alfacaine, available under the prescribing cascade.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    How many Ml each side for calf being being debudded with Alfacaine 2%. I didn't get a leaflet and the label is in a foreign language



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    Depending on size of calf and how accurate you are... 2-5ml per side. Wait 5 minutes (or inject a few others) and check by pricking with a needle around the bud. The local needs to be only just under the skin.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,655 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    Lifting the skin is a good idea. Must try that. I've hit the vein more than once.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Point the needle upwards, then hold the area - lightly massage it in . I still hate the job - fearful of doing damage. I use an 18 gauge needle - the younger the calf the softer the skin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 771 ✭✭✭ minerleague


    I get needles designed for dogs and cats ( very light gauge ) and they hardly notice it



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    The only 'real damage' you could do is introduce infection.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    I dip the needle in surgical spirit before injecting.

    But on another issue -would dipping a needle in surgical spirit before injecting a vaccine interfere with a vaccine (de-nature).



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭ 893bet




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    I don't specifically know. I think you'd be best to ask the vaccine manufacturers. I would imagine that if left to dry the effect would be negligible but...

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    When there is no licenced product available in a particular species to do a specific job, there is a step by step relaxation of the requirements to allow off-label use of a product licenced for that species, or, if none available, a product for that purpose but not licenced for that species to be used. You can't skip a step in the cascade to suit yourself.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭ 893bet


    Does that mean legally they have to sell you something? How should this be phrased when asking?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Have Norbrook, Newry, stopped manufacturing Adrenacaine. Or is supply a Brexit thing.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭ greysides


    I think I was told they've stopped making it. They've pulled a few products recently that you'd have thought were good sellers.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert



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