Adrenacaine

karolmc100

I purchased Adrenacine today,however it came with no leaflet and all it ays on the box is cattle 2-5ml.My query is in relation to what is the specfic dosage for different cattle is.Also is it suitable/strong enough for skulling cattle 9-12mth old

Capercaille

karolmc100 wrote: »

I purchased Adrenacine today,however it came with no leaflet and all it ays on the box is cattle 2-5ml.My query is in relation to what is the specfic dosage for different cattle is.Also is it suitable/strong enough for skulling cattle 9-12mth old

The local vet puts in 15ml into depression below horn. They might go mad if you just use 2-5ml.

karolmc100

What do you mean when you say depression below the horn

kay 9

karolmc100 wrote: »

What do you mean when you say depression below the horn

Between the eye and the horn is where the nerve is. We use 5ml each side and 99% of the time it works. The eyes should get lazy, check for sensitivity around base of horn before you go sawing though!! Give it time to work. Have a smoke and a chat with whomever is helping you.

Deepsouthwest

kay 9 wrote: »

Between the eye and the horn is where the nerve is. We use 5ml each side and 99% of the time it works. The eyes should get lazy, check for sensitivity around base of horn before you go sawing though!! Give it time to work. Have a smoke and a chat with whomever is helping you.

No smoking in the workplace!

Kovu

Hi karolmc100, I really, really would recommend getting someone to do them for you. Not only is it a brutal and difficult job, there's risk of infection if it's not done correctly and cleanly. I take it you haven't done the job before and with the age of the animals,it may be best for the their safety (and yours!) to get a more experienced person in.
As Adrenacaine is a POM, perhaps the vet who prescribed it could do the job.

Below is the current Irish law;

LEGAL AGE LIMITS FOR SURGICAL PROCEDURES WITHOUT ANALGESIA (IRELAND)
B: Disbudding/Dehorning
• Farmers (or Veterinary Practitioners/Nurses) may perform the disbudding / dehorning of:
o cattle up to 15 days of age without use of anaesthesia or analgesia;
o cattle between 15 and 28 days but only with use of appropriate local anaesthesia and analgesia (as per a veterinary prescription issued by the farmer’s Veterinary Practitioner in relation to the animals undergoing the procedure);
o sheep and goats up to 8 days of age without use of anaesthesia or analgesia;
• Irrespective of the legal allowance to not use local anaesthesia, for animal welfare reasons the use of local anaesthesia and appropriate analgesia should be encouraged by Veterinary Practitioners;
• For cattle over 28 days of age, and sheep and goats over 8 days of age, only a Veterinary Practitioner may disbud / dehorn, and in this case the Veterinary Practitioner must by law, use appropriate anaesthesia and analgesia.

Genghis Cant

karolmc100 wrote: »

What do you mean when you say depression below the horn

Get the vet to show ya on a calf where to inject. Then you can do your own calves with confidence up to a month old. It's a very pronounced groove you're looking for. If you're shown correctly you'll fly it.

J.O. Farmer

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Get the vet to show ya on a calf where to inject. Then you can do your own calves with confidence up to a month old. It's a very pronounced groove you're looking for. If you're shown correctly you'll fly it.

It's the occipital groove. It's a soft spot halfway from the base of the horn to the eye. Direct the injection towards the base of the horn.
Back in the day when it was legal to dehorn weanlings we used about 10 ml each side. We used give it plenty of time to work. Maybe even have a drink of tae. The ears would be drooping and they'd be well deadened.

893bet

Is this gone off the market of what’s the story?

Donald Trump

Do it old school.

https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5009138/4990463

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355145#Comment_118355145

Can you source an alternative, e.g Alfacaine 100 ml. There is another one, Lidocaine (I think that is the name) comes in larger size bottles (250 ml).

I pull out the skin over the groove to inject (to avoid the vein). Had the Vet in this year to dishorn stronger ones and pleased to notice that he was doing the same.

tanko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357681#Comment_118357681

I was just going to say that if you were looking for an artic load or two of Lidocaine to get in touch with the dentist from Love/Hate but then i remembered that he’s not a practicing dentist any more.

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357681#Comment_118357681

The Vets can't get Lidocaine anymore. We used to buy a few bottles of it every year to debud FR/FRx bull calves. Afaik Adrenacaine is also off the market in the south but it could be got up north over the counter up until Spring 2020. I got a bottle of LidoBel for to debud a few this year but was told to double the rate that I would normally use for Lidocaine and it worked fine.

Lime Tree Farm

Yes that's the name LidoBell, we had better start enquiring - .

Base price

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118357771#Comment_118357771

Apparently it's not licensed for bovines 🙄

893bet

So by law you have to use something.

but also by law you can’t get anything.

Mooooo

Got the vet in this year to do a few late ones, he knocked em out and had em all done very quickly, giving local as well. Will do em all this way this year id say

greysides

I'm using Alfacaine, available under the prescribing cascade.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358288#Comment_118358288

How many Ml each side for calf being being debudded with Alfacaine 2%. I didn't get a leaflet and the label is in a foreign language

greysides

Depending on size of calf and how accurate you are... 2-5ml per side. Wait 5 minutes (or inject a few others) and check by pricking with a needle around the bud. The local needs to be only just under the skin.

patsy_mccabe

Lifting the skin is a good idea. Must try that. I've hit the vein more than once.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361309#Comment_118361309

Point the needle upwards, then hold the area - lightly massage it in . I still hate the job - fearful of doing damage. I use an 18 gauge needle - the younger the calf the softer the skin.

minerleague

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361337#Comment_118361337

I get needles designed for dogs and cats ( very light gauge ) and they hardly notice it

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118361337#Comment_118361337

The only 'real damage' you could do is introduce infection.

Lime Tree Farm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362500#Comment_118362500

I dip the needle in surgical spirit before injecting.

But on another issue -would dipping a needle in surgical spirit before injecting a vaccine interfere with a vaccine (de-nature).

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118358288#Comment_118358288

What do you mean by prescribing cascade?

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118362545#Comment_118362545

I don't specifically know. I think you'd be best to ask the vaccine manufacturers. I would imagine that if left to dry the effect would be negligible but...

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363325#Comment_118363325

When there is no licenced product available in a particular species to do a specific job, there is a step by step relaxation of the requirements to allow off-label use of a product licenced for that species, or, if none available, a product for that purpose but not licenced for that species to be used. You can't skip a step in the cascade to suit yourself.

893bet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118363729#Comment_118363729

Does that mean legally they have to sell you something? How should this be phrased when asking?

Lime Tree Farm

Have Norbrook, Newry, stopped manufacturing Adrenacaine. Or is supply a Brexit thing.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365273#Comment_118365273

I think I was told they've stopped making it. They've pulled a few products recently that you'd have thought were good sellers.

greysides

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118365237#Comment_118365237

I presume "they" refers to the local vets?

I can't see them refusing to supply you. From a welfare point of view it's a necessity.

893bet

Local vet refused yesterday. But the one behind the counter is fully useless from any dealings I have had.

Went to the same vets, but different town and got a bottle today after getting talking to an actual Vet who said “I shouldn’t be prescribing this but the whole situation is a farce at this point”.