Running 3 times a week for a marathon?

I have a question about marathon training. I'm intending on completing my first marathon next year. I have been looking at various training programmes and became interested in one that includes some strength training - mostly because before I started running, strength training was my thing and I would like to get back into it.

I've just enquired about the programme and it includes 2 days in the gym, and 2-3 days of running. Now my first reaction to this is "that's not enough running". I was running 5 days a week in prep for my first half marathon and if I'm to follow Hal Higdon or the likes, it'll be the same. I gather from what info I have, that it'll be a LSR as normal, and more focus on speed training during the other runs.

So my question is, do you think it's possible to train for a marathon while only running 3 times per week when strength training is added in to your schedule?

viperlogic

Of course it's possible but all depends on your goal and how much improvement you want to make. The FIRST Run Less Run Faster plan is based around 3 sessions a week with XT for the other days.

RayCun

Of course its possible.

The question is, is this a good plan to follow to run the best marathon you are capable of? The answer to that is "no".

Oryx

It is possible, I come from the dark side triathlon forum, and most folks there have to limit runs to approx 3 by necessity, to fit in other training. But with a high level of cardio fitness, many can run stonking marathon times. (albeit with higher run focus coming up to it) The other cardio/tri training helps the running. I don't think pure strength training will.

So you need to decide do you want to be a good runner, or good at strength work, or just okay at both. They are opposing disciplines, imo.

That's the thing, the plan claims to be more effective in producing results than more traditional programmes. I'm getting more sceptical the more I read about it.

Sorry Oryx, you were posting as I was! This would be cardio + strength, metabolic condition programmes rather than focusing on lifting etc. I have every intention on doing a triathalon next year also - in fact it's a goal of mine to have one complete by end of September next year.

I'm never going to be fast, OK at a marathon is fine by me as long as it's not a complete disaster. I only took up running in spring this year so I'm not expecting anything miraculous tbh but at the same time, I want it to be the best that *I* can be.

menoscemo

If you are used to running 5 days a week, then going to 3 days a week is clearly a step backwards.
If you want to maintain 5 Running days a week and add strength training then that might be an improvement.

In running, strength training can be a useful adddition to your running but should not replace it IMO.

Oryx

Okay, one thing I didnt get around to saying was that if the strength work is specific to what the body needs for running, then that will make a difference. For instance, I do a lot of stuff where the form for the exercises echoes the form for running, and things like squats which build leg strength I can bring to cycling.

BobMc

I'll be doing my first marathon in 2015, I'll planning on training with only 3 maybe 4 runs per week, not really researched too many plans online, but whichever I choose I'm sure some bit of tweaking is required, I'm pretty confident of a decent result with that level of training with a considerable run base that I already have

opus

Deleted User wrote: »

That's the thing, the plan claims to be more effective in producing results than more traditional programmes. I'm getting more sceptical the more I read about it.

I wouldn't say it's more effective than traditional programs but you can certainly get results from it, see my previous post here on my own & a friend's experience with it.

Kurt Godel

That Hal-I-am.
That Hal-I-am!
I do not like
That Hal-I-am.

You may like them,
You will see.
You may well like,
P&D.

I would not, could not,
P&D.
I would not like,
more days than three.

A Canova book,
found in your house?
Between "Lifting for Dummies",
and "Sums by Gauss"?

No Canova book,
is in my house.
His heavy schedule,
upsets my nous.

Can you run a marathon training three days?
Being the best *you* can be, you says?
Can you run a marathon with a fox?
Can you run a marathon (to tick a box)?

Yes, (to tick a box).
Yes, with a fox.
Yes, you can run a marathon training three days.
Not, being the best *you* can be, I says.

Just to clarify, it's not the FIRST programme. It's the crossfit endurance programme I've been looking at, not because I want to run less, in fact I was a little (a lot) shocked when I found out how much (or little) running was involved - hence the thread! I've read a lot about it and I'm finding it difficult to find negative reviews of the programme but that isn't necessarily reflection of reality. I do know someone who knocked 15 minutes of their DCM time this year with it to come in bang on target but again, that's just one real life person.

I think I'll probably stick with Hal Higdon, but will increase the second of the two 20 mile runs to 22. I can add some running specific strength training in myself if I feel they would be of benefit.

I also need to lose some feckin weight and get quite a few niggles sorted but that's a thread for another day!

RayCun

Deleted User wrote: »

I do know someone who knocked 15 minutes of their DCM time this year with it to come in bang on target but again, that's just one real life person.

As donothoponpop will tell you, you are pretty much bound to improve in your second year of training, following any sort of plan.

menoscemo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

:
It's the crossfit endurance programme I've been looking at, not because I want to run less, in fact I was a little (a lot) shocked when I found out how much (or little) running was.......

To be honest, if I was looking for a crossfit programme I wouldn't ask Hal Higdon or P&D to give me one. Similarly if I was looking at a marathon Programne the crossfit is the last place I would look.

Mulberry

On the subject of only having the time to train for a marathon on 3 sessions a week, check out Sarah's race report here:
(from the Dunboyne AC Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/DunboyneAC)

Dunboyne AC
October 30 · Edited
***Three is the magic number***

*Dublin City Marathon race report by SARAH MEEGAN*

The number 3 is a significant one in my life, especially of late. I have 3 kids (aged 5, 3 and 1), I work 3 days a week, I run 3 days a weeks and I aimed to complete my first marathon in a time that had number 3 at the start - I really wanted to do a sub four hour time. So it was based on a 3 day/week training plan that I completed my first marathon, DCM 2014.

To be honest, up until August, I wasn’t convinced that I could complete a marathon based on a 3 sessions a week. I thought you needed to run 5-6 days but I now know that this amount of training is not needed. It is important to say here that this was my experience of marathon training. I’m not advocating for people to complete a marathon based on a 3 day running week but I believe if you have a solid running foundation achieved prior to embarking on marathon training, then for some people, it is certainly achievable. Running more than 3 days wasn’t an option for me with family and work life, and even at that, the 3 days were sometimes difficult to achieve. My training consisted of Tuesday and Thursday nights at the club and a long run at the weekend.

I’m not sure if I can do justice in describing my experience of completing my first marathon. I can only say it was one of the most rewarding experiences I’ve had and I would do it all again in a heartbeat. I loved every second of it (all 14,216!). During the marathon I literally couldn’t stop smiling. The support from the crowd was unbelievable especially from members of Dunboyne AC, you are amazing supporters!

The actual race itself was not easy especially miles 22-26.2, they hurt…a lot! At the RDS I felt like stopping and sitting on the road but the crowd kept me going (plus it was hard to stop with everybody shouting “Come on Dunboyne” at me!). The feeling when I crossed the finish line was one of exhilaration, relief that it was over, disbelief that it was over and exhaustion…it was incredible. The last of the 3’s was achieved though – I was over the line in 3.56.

One of the first thoughts that came to me was how did everybody else get on and who had finished. That’s the funny thing that happens when you train with a group of people, you are just as focused on how they got on as your own race. Even though the marathon is just over, I feel like I have ‘marathon blues’. I miss having the focus of it in my life but I especially miss knowing I won’t be going on a long run with my friends at the weekend. Marathon training became my social life for the last few weeks! I know we will continue running together but it’s like a group of us have been on this journey together since the summer. We have spent hours and hours and miles and miles running together every week for this one run and now that it’s over...I miss it.

I will end this piece with some advice based on my experience of running the marathon. First, you don’t have to run 5+ days a week to do it. So for all you runners who would like to take on the challenge of running a marathon, you can do it! Choose your running mates wisely, you will spend a lot of time with them especially during the long runs. From this, you get the opportunity to meet people who become great friends. Accept that you and your family will have to make sacrifices. Marathon training, be it 3 or 6 days a week, is time consuming and you spend significant amounts of time out running, especially when the miles for the long run clock up. My final and most important piece of advice is do not take on the challenge of training for a marathon without your husband’s or partners support. Their support is absolutely crucial so you can prepare physically and mentally for the wonderful challenge that is running a marathon, and on that note…thank you Darren X.

kal7

I have run three marathons and one in an ironman, all done off 3x per week running. If you want to go very low time might be different.

Cross training ie having run muscles and other areas developed from other training or sport can be a good plus and you are not as beat up from the impact. It is all however to allow your body to adapt to running long and for some faster so you must run and consistantly.

Always have a rest day, six days training max, particularly after a tough run day.

RayCun

'very low time' is relative
what constitutes a rest day is relative

TFBubendorfer

Mulberry wrote: »

On the subject of only having the time to train for a marathon on 3 sessions a week, check out Sarah's race report here:
(from the Dunboyne AC Facebook page:

It's a good race report, but if 3:56 is the sum of your ambitions then running 3 times a week will indeed suffice for most people.

menoscemo

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's a good race report, but if 3:56 is the sum of your ambitions then running 3 times a week will indeed suffice for most people.

+1, there is also this caveat in the report:

but I believe if you have a solid running foundation achieved prior to embarking on marathon training, then for some people, it is certainly achievable.

I am not sure it is suitable for a beginner runner as the 3 days a week in such programmes are normally 3 'hard' days (intervals, Tempo, Long Run) and would leave a newish runner more prone to injury than say 5 days of 'easy' running.

TFBubendorfer

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's a good race report, but if 3:56 is the sum of your ambitions then running 3 times a week will indeed suffice for most people.

In all honesty, a time of 3:56 would be absolutely fantastic for me and I do a fair amount of running.

Mulberry

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

It's a good race report, but if 3:56 is the sum of your ambitions then running 3 times a week will indeed suffice for most people.

Thomas, 3.56 is very far from the sum of Sarah's ambitions, and I believe she will go sub 3.30 and possibly 3.20 in the future. For the moment however, it was a realistic, and a challenging goal for her, given the amount of time she can spend training each week. Those of us who are in a position to be able to train more often should give thanks!

menoscemo wrote: »

+1, there is also this caveat in the report:

but I believe if you have a solid running foundation achieved prior to embarking on marathon training, then for some people, it is certainly achievable.

I am not sure it is suitable for a beginner runner as the 3 days a week in such programmes are normally 3 'hard' days (intervals, Tempo, Long Run) and would leave a newish runner more prone to injury than say 5 days of 'easy' running.

+1. In this case, Sarah already has 3-4 years of running under her belt. Albeit running just 2-3 times a week!

Think I should shut down and stop speaking for Sarah now! If she had time I'm sure she'd love to browse boards, but I think she spends the time she has available - running!

TFBubendorfer

Deleted User wrote: »

In all honesty, a time of 3:56 would be absolutely fantastic for me and I do a fair amount of running.

Believe it or not, there was a time when that was the case for me as well!

However, I am very glad that I set my ambitions towards a higher standard and running 3 times a week would not have gotten me there.

I 100% agree with meno, a crossfit programme, even a crossfit endurance programme, would be the very last place I'd go to. That's all down to personal preference, of course.

pistol_75

Mulberry wrote: »

Thomas, 3.56 is very far from the sum of Sarah's ambitions, and I believe she will go sub 3.30 and possibly 3.20 in the future. For the moment however, it was a realistic, and a challenging goal for her, given the amount of time she can spend training each week. Those of us who are in a position to be able to train more often should give thanks!



+1. In this case, Sarah already has 3-4 years of running under her belt. Albeit running just 2-3 times a week!

Think I should shut down and stop speaking for Sarah now! If she had time I'm sure she'd love to browse boards, but I think she spends the time she has available - running!

What are her PB's at shorter distances? That might make it easier to quantify whether 3:56 was a decent time relative to her other PB's or whether she is not running to the best of her current ability with 3 days running.

kchsligo

I completed a marathon in 2011 on the back of 3 days running a week and it was tough to finish but I got through it...jump forward to 2014 and a training plan that involved running 5 days a week and my time was much much improved. I'm a complete convert to more is better...

Mulberry

pistol_75 wrote: »

What are her PB's at shorter distances? That might make it easier to quantify whether 3:56 was a decent time relative to her other PB's or whether she is not running to the best of her current ability with 3 days running.

Hmm, I think 22.40 for a 5K and 1.45 odd for a Half. The original goal was 3.50 but it didn't happen on the day. Humidity etc probably.

ThePiedPiper

I think I could have tried marathons from practically every conceivable number of days per week, from 0-1 up to 12 sessions per week for one of them. The 3 sessions per week worked once for me, to a certain extent, but only because I already had a decent base. I'd estimate I under performed only about 8 minutes in that race. I went into that one, though, using it as a training run.

I tried 3 days per week for a race a few years back when I thought I might get away with it, and I positive splitted to the tune of 12 minutes. Yes, I got through the race, but the last 7 miles were torture. That cycle had included a month if intensive cross-training with building, climbing, etc. so while not a crossfit programme, possibly similar...

If you want to do well in a long running race, the best training is long running. Tried and tested