Insuring au-pair + doubly penalized after crash?

mar12345

Hi,

I need a bit of advice on 2 issues:

- Firstly, we have had au-pairs for the past 2 years, and added them as a named driver on a small 1999 fiesta so they could occasionally drive our DD to school. Our broker recommended that the insurance be in my name, and that I use my 5 year no-claims bonus to lower the cost. It meant that I paid full price on my work car.

Au-pair number 1 was 19, so the insurance was 1000+. Expensive, but OK.

Au-pair number 2 was 22, so the insurance was a little bit lower. Great. She had a small crash in April, so I knew I would be penalized a bit when renewing the insurance.

Our new au-pair is 21, but now, the broker says that the au-pair cannot be a named driver anymore as I own a second car. According to them, people are not allowed to own 2 cars and be insured on both, and have a young driver insured on one of them.

Therefore, au-pair number 3 becomes the main driver, and I must pay... 2650eur third party on a car worth 250eur, for a driver with more than 5 years driving experience.

I know that young drivers pay more, obviously. But this quote is almost 300% of what this au-pair was paying in France for a similar cover. No other insurance will insure us as she has an EU license... Does anyone know if there is a way around this extortion?



- secondly, as I said, Au Pair number 2 had a small crash in April. I knew this would affect the cost of the insurance on the fiesta.

What I didn't anticipate was that it also affected the insurance on my work car, which went up as a result of having has a claim on another car.

So basically, the insurance went up on the fiesta as a result of having been in a crash (even tho I am not the main driver anymore), and my work car insurance went up as a result of me being the main driver on a car involved in a crash.

My question is - what is affected when a crash occurs - the car's insurance? or the driver's insurance? (if that makes sense!) How is it fair that both should be affected?

Sorry if it's unclear, it's a bit complicated!
Thanks a mill for your input

CiniO

As you can see yourself, everything is affected.
Insurers will use every possible trick to rip off their customers.

And we in Ireland are getting all ripped off greatly compared to other EU countries, where insurance market is more regulated. In Ireland insurers can generally do whatever they wish unfortunately.

Stheno

mar12345 wrote: »

Hi,

I need a bit of advice on 2 issues:

- Firstly, we have had au-pairs for the past 2 years, and added them as a named driver on a small 1999 fiesta so they could occasionally drive our DD to school. Our broker recommended that the insurance be in my name, and that I use my 5 year no-claims bonus to lower the cost. It meant that I paid full price on my work car.

Au-pair number 1 was 19, so the insurance was 1000+. Expensive, but OK.

Au-pair number 2 was 22, so the insurance was a little bit lower. Great. She had a small crash in April, so I knew I would be penalized a bit when renewing the insurance.

Our new au-pair is 21, but now, the broker says that the au-pair cannot be a named driver anymore as I own a second car. According to them, people are not allowed to own 2 cars and be insured on both, and have a young driver insured on one of them.

Therefore, au-pair number 3 becomes the main driver, and I must pay... 2650eur third party on a car worth 250eur, for a driver with more than 5 years driving experience.

I know that young drivers pay more, obviously. But this quote is almost 300% of what this au-pair was paying in France for a similar cover. No other insurance will insure us as she has an EU license... Does anyone know if there is a way around this extortion?



- secondly, as I said, Au Pair number 2 had a small crash in April. I knew this would affect the cost of the insurance on the fiesta.

What I didn't anticipate was that it also affected the insurance on my work car, which went up as a result of having has a claim on another car.

So basically, the insurance went up on the fiesta as a result of having been in a crash (even tho I am not the main driver anymore), and my work car insurance went up as a result of me being the main driver on a car involved in a crash.

My question is - what is affected when a crash occurs - the car's insurance? or the driver's insurance? (if that makes sense!) How is it fair that both should be affected?

Sorry if it's unclear, it's a bit complicated!
Thanks a mill for your input

My understanding is its the driver so as the Main driver on both policies (when there was a claim) you get penalised on both due to the one claim, and given that the au-pair is now the main driver on the second policy now, it's loaded to reflect the additional risk and no no-claims

Could be wrong though

CiniO

Stheno wrote: »

My understanding is its the driver so as the Mai driver on both policies you get penalised on both due to the one claim

Could be wrong though

Few years back my wife (who is names driver on my policy) had an accident in my car. She has her own car as well with her own policy.
My insurance was affected as it was my policy that paid for damage.
Her insurance was affected as well, as she caused an accident.

Del2005

The first 2 you where fronting and that's illegal, as your current broker has told you. The cost of insurance has little to do with the value of the car, it's the 3rd party claims that cost. The current au pair may be able to get cheaper insurance if she gets proof of no claims from France, but you'll have to transfer the car to her as you can't be insured in something you don't have an interest in.

As for your other policy going up. You've made a claim and are therefore a higher insurance risk, but you should still have whatever NCD you built up on it.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Is a DD a bigger version of a cc?

Stheno

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

Is a DD a bigger version of a cc?

It's parent speak for dear daughter

Dr Turk Turkelton

Stheno wrote: »

It's parent speak for dear daughter

Sort of thought that, was a strange place to see it in the motoring forum-thought it had become rollercoaster!

mar12345

Hi everyone, thanks for that, kind of knew it was hopeless and we are at the mercy of these companies who pretty much charge whatever they feel like :-(

Might just flag it to the consumer association as I really feel that such discrepancies between Ireland and the rest of Europe (300%!!!!) is just sickening.

corktina

Makes no difference how many cars you have, if you have a claim you are a higher risk

coylemj

mar12345 wrote: »

Might just flag it to the consumer association as I really feel that such discrepancies between Ireland and the rest of Europe (300%!!!!) is just sickening.

What do you expect the consumer association to do about it? They are a voluntary organisation and their main objective is to sell lots of subscriptions to their magazine to keep their staff in jobs. They can do nothing for you.

If you highlight the relative cost of insurance in Ireland vs. the rest of Europe to anyone, the answer usually is that it's because of whiplash claims which are far more prevalent here and in the UK than in the rest of Europe. There are dozens of threads on this and the Legal forum where people were involved in minor bumps, intended to pay for the damage to the other car to keep their NCD only for the other guy to develop neck pains and their insurance paid him off with a couple of thousand which they then recoup from the policyholder in higher premiums which they can do because of a conspiracy gentleman's agreement among the insurance companies which says that none of them will quote someone for insurance if he's had a claim recently.

Del2005

coylemj wrote: »

What do you expect the consumer association to do about it? They are a voluntary organisation and their main objective is to sell lots of subscriptions to their magazine to keep their staff in jobs. They can do nothing for you.

If you highlight the relative cost of insurance in Ireland vs. the rest of Europe to anyone, the answer usually is that it's because of whiplash claims which are far more prevalent here and in the UK than in the rest of Europe. There are dozens of threads on this and the Legal forum where people were involved in minor bumps, intended to pay for the damage to the other car to keep their NCD only for the other guy to develop neck pains and their insurance paid him off with a couple of thousand which they then recoup from the policyholder in higher premiums which they can do because of a conspiracy gentleman's agreement among the insurance companies which says that none of them will quote someone for insurance if he's had a claim recently.

We just sue more than most of Europe and the "It's always some one else's fault" mentality. Was just over in the French Alps a few months ago and in one village they had the whole main street dug up with wires and pipes in the middle of the street, over here they'd have had to have built a fort around it to stop people lying down and claiming they fell.

CiniO

Del2005 wrote: »

We just sue more than most of Europe and the "It's always some one else's fault" mentality.

Well in relation to car accident, "It's always some one else's fault" mentality most likely just come from the fact that it's horrendously expensive to be at fault in the accident here.
Small fender-bender and if you are at fault, your premium will go up by 1000 for next year, 800 for year after, 600 for next year, 400, 200 and then back to normal.
Effectively a small mistake will cost you 3 grand in next few years, and that's rather optimistic option.
No surprise everyone tries to deny they are at fault here. I probably would as well...

In Poland where I used to live before, causing a small accident, might mean that you will pay extra 50 quid on your insurance over next few years. That's reasonable values, and people who cause accident in most cases have no problem admitting it. It can happens to best of us, and that's what insurance is for. However I'm sure if people there had to pay those crazy insurance premiums like in Ireland, they wouldn't be such honest with admitting fault, same as Irish people aren't.

vectra

corktina wrote: »

Makes no difference how many cars you have, if you have a claim you are a higher risk

Doesnt seem right though.

Should it not be the driver that had the accident be the higher risk?
After all the policy holder was not the driver so should not be any higher rick than pre accident.

endacl

Stheno wrote: »

It's parent speak for dear daughter

Parent speak. :mad:

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Stheno wrote: »

It's parent speak for dear daughter

So it (and other similar silly acronymns that you wouldn't say in reality) have no place in civilized discussion.

Bio Mech

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

So it (and other similar silly acronymns that you wouldn't say in reality) have no place in civilized discussion.

Now now, your DM or DF wouldn't like to hear you say that. Actually lets just say your DMF, I don't think that one is in use for anything motor related?

Breffnigolfer

mar12345 wrote: »

Hi,

I need a bit of advice on 2 issues:

- Firstly, we have had au-pairs for the past 2 years, and added them as a named driver on a small 1999 fiesta so they could occasionally drive our DD to school. Our broker recommended that the insurance be in my name, and that I use my 5 year no-claims bonus to lower the cost. It meant that I paid full price on my work car.

Au-pair number 1 was 19, so the insurance was 1000+. Expensive, but OK.

Au-pair number 2 was 22, so the insurance was a little bit lower. Great. She had a small crash in April, so I knew I would be penalized a bit when renewing the insurance.

Our new au-pair is 21, but now, the broker says that the au-pair cannot be a named driver anymore as I own a second car. According to them, people are not allowed to own 2 cars and be insured on both, and have a young driver insured on one of them.

Therefore, au-pair number 3 becomes the main driver, and I must pay... 2650eur third party on a car worth 250eur, for a driver with more than 5 years driving experience.

I know that young drivers pay more, obviously. But this quote is almost 300% of what this au-pair was paying in France for a similar cover. No other insurance will insure us as she has an EU license... Does anyone know if there is a way around this extortion?



- secondly, as I said, Au Pair number 2 had a small crash in April. I knew this would affect the cost of the insurance on the fiesta.

What I didn't anticipate was that it also affected the insurance on my work car, which went up as a result of having has a claim on another car.

So basically, the insurance went up on the fiesta as a result of having been in a crash (even tho I am not the main driver anymore), and my work car insurance went up as a result of me being the main driver on a car involved in a crash.

My question is - what is affected when a crash occurs - the car's insurance? or the driver's insurance? (if that makes sense!) How is it fair that both should be affected?

Sorry if it's unclear, it's a bit complicated!
Thanks a mill for your input

With all due respect, you tried to pull a fast one and have been caught.

You lied when you declared the Au-Pair as a named driver when, in fact, she was the main driver of the car.
It is well known that when a person has a claim against him/her you are deemed a higher risk and all policies you have will be affected.

It's tough but take it as a lesson learned.

Breffnigolfer

CiniO wrote: »

.........
Small fender-bender and if you are at fault, your premium will go up by 1000 for next year, 800 for year after, 600 for next year, 400, 200 and then back to normal.
Effectively a small mistake will cost you 3 grand in next few years, and that's rather optimistic option.
...

.........

Where did you get those figures from? Finger in the air, or actuarial study?

BreadnBuddha

Where did you get that attitude from? Professional interests or haven't had your coffee yet?

Have a claim, you're paying more the next year. Depending on the value of the claim, other insurers will decline to provide cover and your existing insurer will all but lock you in to renewing with them to make sure they get to claw back some of the payout over subsequent years.

If you've a full protected NCB you won't be ridden up the hole quite so vigorously, but they'll still stick it up you even if they're whispering sweet nothings in your ear.

Breffnigolfer

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Where did you get that attitude from? Professional interests or haven't had your coffee yet?

Have a claim, you're paying more the next year. Depending on the value of the claim, other insurers will decline to provide cover and your existing insurer will all but lock you in to renewing with them to make sure they get to claw back some of the payout over subsequent years.

If you've a full protected NCB you won't be ridden up the hole quite so vigorously, but they'll still stick it up you even if they're whispering sweet nothings in your ear.

Two answers.
One, I have no "attitude ", whatever you are referring to.

Two, your vulgarity is unnecessary and uncalled for.

CiniO

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

Where did you get those figures from? Finger in the air, or actuarial study?

Finger in the air.
You think this is way of what the real average increase would be?

run_Forrest_run

Stheno wrote: »

It's parent speak for dear daughter

It's actually Rollercoaster parent speak...lets keep it off boards!!

blastman

corktina wrote: »

Makes no difference how many cars you have, if you have a claim you are a higher risk

Which boils my blood, as if you want to insure a second car, chances are you have to start from scratch building up a second no-claims discount. Have an accident, though, and both your discounts are wiped out. :mad:

bajer101

mar12345 wrote: »

No other insurance will insure us as she has an EU license...

Get an Irish license for the au pair and that will reduce the insurance quote. If her EU license is the equivalent of a full Irish license, it should be a simple case of just filling out a form and paying the fee for the full Irish license.

0lddog

OP, you dont by any chance live near a Gocar parking location ?

( http://www.gocar.ie/terms-conditions/ )

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

Finger in the air.
You think this is way of what the real average increase would be?

Yeah tbh, my OH had a fairly serious fender bender which cost about 4k to fix, his insurance doubled from 500 to 1000 the first year after, but then went down steadily over the further 3 years.

Liam McPoyle

CiniO wrote: »

As you can see yourself, everything is affected.
Insurers will use every possible trick to rip off their customers.

And we in Ireland are getting all ripped off greatly compared to other EU countries, where insurance market is more regulated. In Ireland insurers can generally do whatever they wish unfortunately.

With all due respect, thats nonsense.

Personal insurance in Ireland is toxic business with loss ratios up to and over 100%.

Claims have to be paid.

Why do you think Setanta went tits up?

They charged low premiums for higher risk business (in some cases) but due to the losses suffered they went into liquidation.

1 bad accident can cost literally millions of euro.

One claim report I saw a couple of years ago had over €3 million paid out and was still going as there were a couple of fatalities. Now this is obviously at the higher end of the scale but if an insurance company has a couple of those per annum, how do you think they are going to cover the costs.

Not to mention claims on home insurance and commercial business insurance, they all have to be paid out of the same pool too.

The lack of knowledge about how insurance works is staggering it really is.