Calling a Penalty - Matchplay

Wombatman

Played a good spirited match play game at home recently. There were occasions that penalties could have been called by both sides but weren't.

Things like:
- Finishing off a tap in out of turn.
- Taking wrong turn off the tee box.
- Knocking a few leaves unintentionally with practice backing.
- Rolling the ball back to a player after conceding a putt.

Should we be calling these penalties or even self penalizing in these situations?

BigChap1759

Wombatman wrote: »

Played a good spirited match play game at home recently. There were occasions that penalties could have been called by both sides but weren't.

Things like:
- Finishing off a tap in out of turn.
- Taking wrong turn off the tee box.
- Knocking a few leaves unintentionally with practice backing.
- Rolling the ball back to a player after conceding a putt.

Should we be calling these penalties or even self penalizing in these situations?

Don't see a problem in Match Play - seems like a lot of infractions though for one game?

Osgoodisgood

Wombatman wrote: »

Played a good spirited match play game at home recently. There were occasions that penalties could have been called by both sides but weren't.

Things like:
- Finishing off a tap in out of turn.
- Taking wrong turn off the tee box.
- Knocking a few leaves unintentionally with practice backing.
- Rolling the ball back to a player after conceding a putt.

Should we be calling these penalties or even self penalizing in these situations?

1. I wouldn't be at all happy about that and I'd definitely tell you not to do it again
2. Annoying
3. You know you don't get to decide when to apply rules don't you?
4. If you gained an advantage out of that I'd be seriously irritated. If not I wouldn't care

John Divney

You should be calling them on yourself really

Playing out of turn is not a penalty, you can make them replay the shot in the correct order from the same spot, for tap ins this seems needless, but you should say 'mark that' before hand early doors to avoid the scenario of holing out short putts not conceded.

Sounds like a messy game tbh,

John Divney

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

1. I wouldn't be at all happy about that and I'd definitely tell you not to do it again
2. Annoying
3. You know you don't get to decide when to apply rules don't you?
4. If you gained an advantage out of that I'd be seriously irritated. If not I wouldn't care

Re number 3, you kind of do, as long as you don't waive the rules themselves, just the infraction.

cairny

Osgoodisgood wrote: »

1. I wouldn't be at all happy about that and I'd definitely tell you not to do it again
2. Annoying
3. You know you don't get to decide when to apply rules don't you?
4. If you gained an advantage out of that I'd be seriously irritated. If not I wouldn't care

3. Matchplay is the only time that you do have a little discretion about applying the rules, you are not obliged to call a rule breach but you must not agree to waive a rule, so you can't say that's a breach but I won't call a penalty, if you bring it up you must enforce the penalty or if your opponent for instance asks if its a penalty.

You can bring it up on the next hole afaik.

keane2097

Can someone explain #4 please? Not sure what exactly the action being described is...?

callaway92

keane2097 wrote: »

Can someone explain #4 please? Not sure what exactly the action being described is...?

Your opponent hits a putt from distance and misses. His next putt is so close that it's a gimme and since you are closer to the ball you roll it back to him leading to you getting an even better judgement of break/green speed.

cairny

keane2097 wrote: »

Can someone explain #4 please? Not sure what exactly the action being described is...?

Testing the speed of the green by rolling your opponents ball back to him before you take your own putt.

As far as I know it's only a penalty if you do it with the intention of testing the green and only the player himself can know if that was the intention.

alxmorgan

Wombatman wrote: »

Played a good spirited match play game at home recently. There were occasions that penalties could have been called by both sides but weren't.

Things like:
- Finishing off a tap in out of turn.
- Taking wrong turn off the tee box.
- Knocking a few leaves unintentionally with practice backing.
- Rolling the ball back to a player after conceding a putt.

Should we be calling these penalties or even self penalizing in these situations?

Number 3 here is not black and white though right ? I mean its only a penalty if you have improved the area of intended swing. If you knock a few off a tree with dozens there is no issue.

Wombatman

alxmorgan wrote: »

Number 3 here is not black and white though right ? I mean its only a penalty if you have improved the area of intended swing. If you knock a few off a tree with dozens there is no issue.

Correct. It was borderline as to the improvement but very clearly unintentional.

cairny

alxmorgan wrote: »

Number 3 here is not black and white though right ? I mean its only a penalty if you have improved the area of intended swing. If you knock a few off a tree with dozens there is no issue.

One leaf would be a penalty I think, unless you are well away from the ball and your intended swing path.

Only time its not a penalty is if you knock them off in the course of the actual stroke.

alxmorgan

cairny wrote: »

One leaf would be a penalty I think, unless you are well away from the ball and your intended swing path.

Only time its not a penalty is if you knock them off in the course of the actual stroke.

See decision 13-2/0.5

examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage
are if a player:
.....
accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of
intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves
or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been
materially affected;

blackwhite

cairny wrote: »

One leaf would be a penalty I think, unless you are well away from the ball and your intended swing path.

Only time its not a penalty is if you knock them off in the course of the actual stroke.

[EDIT]Damn you axl! - beat me to it [/edit]

Nope.

Decision 13-2/0.5

RANDA wrote:

In the context of Rule 13-2, "improve" means to change for the better so that the player gains a potential advantage with respect to the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the hole, or the area in which he is to drop or place a ball. Therefore, merely changing an area protected by Rule 13-2 will not be a breach of Rule 13-2 unless it creates such a potential advantage for the player in his play.
Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:
repairs a small pitch-mark on his line of play five yards in front of his ball prior to making a 150-yard approach shot from through the green;
accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected; or
whose ball lies in thick rough 180 yards from the green, walks forward and pulls strands of grass on his line of play and tosses them in the air to determine the direction of the wind.
Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:
repairs a pitch-mark through the green five yards in front of his ball and on his line of play prior to making a stroke from off the putting green that might be affected by the pitch-mark (e.g. a putt or a low-running shot);
accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected; or
pulls strands of grass from rough a few inches behind his ball to test the wind, but thereby reduces a potential distraction for the player, or resistance to his club, in the area of his intended swing.
The determination as to whether a player has gained a potential advantage from his actions is made by reference to the situation immediately prior to his stroke. If there is a reasonable possibility that the player's action has created a potential advantage, the player is in breach of Rule 13-2. 

http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=13&subRuleNum=2&decisionId=440BC525-92A9-46AA-A44C-F56E4D9CACC5

cairny

blackwhite wrote: »

[EDIT]Damn you axl! - beat me to it [/edit]

Nope.

Decision 13-2/0.5


http://www.randa.org/en/Rules-and-Amateur-Status/Rules-of-Golf.aspx#/rules/?ruleNum=13&subRuleNum=2&decisionId=440BC525-92A9-46AA-A44C-F56E4D9CACC5

Thanks for that, I would have thought all of those were breaches, interesting. Sensible ruling though.

blackwhite

cairny wrote: »

Thanks for that, I would have thought all of those were breaches, interesting. Sensible ruling though.

Reading through a lot of the decisions there do seem to be a lot of "common sense" clarifications brought in for rules such as this one - although many of them don't seem to be commonly known!

GreeBo

None of them are penalties unless under specific reasons.
two already covered.
Tapping in a putt abd playing out of turn : The 2penalty" is to make them replay their shot.

I'd only exercise my right if they played out if turn and it impacted me.