My Belgian water bill.

Greenman

Excuse me if I'm posting in the wrong forum, but I thought you'd like to see my Belgian water bill and compare.


We are a couple with 2 children 10 and 7.


The long and the short of it is we used 51 cubes and we paid €167 for the year, this included water in water out plus the allowance.


We have a 10,000 litre rain water tank which we use for the washing machine,downstairs toilet and garden. This tank was installed with pump about 2 years ago and we have seen our usage drop by say 40% +/-


If you have questions I will try to answer.

Sala

Is that a yearly statement or do you just get 1 bill at the end if the year?

18MonthsaSlave

Observations:
You get a free water allowance based on number of occupants.
Your charge per cubic metre appears to be around 60 to 70 percent of the charge in Ireland despite Belguim being highly populated with little water available without being processed heavily(assumption on my part)
Your VAT rate is 6% while there is no VAT in Ireland but I assume in a year or two I'm sure Government will say "Those nasty people in the E.U. have forced us to levy VAT on Water" and then an additional 13.5% rate of VAT will apply.


Heidelberg Water charges are here. They're high for Germany but still cheaper than Ireland. The waste water charge in Ireland is ridiculous.
https://www.swhd.de/de/Energie-und-Wasser/Wasser/Wasser-und-Abwasser-Gebuehren/Wasser-und-Abwasser-Gebuehren.html

Greenman

Sala wrote: »

Is that a yearly statement or do you just get 1 bill at the end if the year?

Its a yearly bill. You pay an estimated amount every 3 months at the end of the year you send your meter reading in via net or post and in about a week you get your bill, this year I had to pay €23 extra, next year the 3 monthly payments will be adjusted slightly up.


My water meter is in my cellar.


About a year ago the meter was inspected by the water board they said they had to renew the meter at they're cost. They also said I needed a one way valve renewed and gave me 1 month to do so. This was carried out by my plumber. A month later they came back to check I had done it.


Not sure what happens if you do not pay, I'll find out and get back to you.

makeorbrake

Greenman wrote: »

We have a 10,000 litre rain water tank which we use for the washing machine,downstairs toilet and garden. This tank was installed with pump about 2 years ago and we have seen our usage drop by say 40% +/-

What was the capital cost of this? Any idea what the ongoing cost is? Was it subsidised or grant aided in any way?

Ive done the sums on domestic rainwater harvesting systems here and they simply don't stack up (financially).

murphaph

Man, water is cheap as chips in Belgium. Here in Berlin we pay:
€4.50/m³ with NO free allowance whatsoever. We also pay €0.31 towards sewage treatment for every m³ of drinking water we use and we pay a flat €13.33 a year to the meter reading company.

Rainwater harvesting systems here are definitely economical and in fact because our water in Berlin is so hard, rainwater (as soft as it gets) is particularly beneficial for use in washing machines and toilets.

18MonthsaSlave

My landlord has a waterbutt for his garden her in Baden-Wurttemberg.
Seems fair to me as heavy users should be paying more than those who use sparingly.
In Ireland they've gone for a high tariff for everyone.

All these protests over Water Charges per se but the details like being a dumping ground for lazy co. co. staff or gravy pot quango for the connected or cross subsidy for Bord Gais or profitable contract for private businesses providing services to Irish water or that Income tax hasn't actually gone down even though it isn't paying for water anymore.

Greenman

makeorbrake wrote: »

What was the capital cost of this? Any idea what the ongoing cost is? Was it subsidised or grant aided in any way?

Ive done the sums on domestic rainwater harvesting systems here and they simply don't stack up (financially).

They do not really stack up but over here if you do a new build or renovate you are obliged to fit a rain water tank and pump.


Pump with some bits cost around €500 - a €250 grant.
The renovation/extension cost €45,000 - a €10,000 grant.


I think a concrete 10,000 liter tank with the bits is about €1,000 delivered. But I think you can go as low as a 3,000 liter tank.


Finally I have a 1,000 liter tank costing €50 connected to my workshop roof gutters in the garden with a €25 pump connected to a hose. This does all the outside stuff.


In my case when you pay for water you really think about it.

Greenman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Any idea what the ongoing cost is?

Oh ye on that.


Next year I might have to drain the tank or hope for a drought and get into the tank and wash it clean. Otherwise I do not see any ongoing costs. The pump uses 700 watts per hour. If you flush for a number 2 it runs for a minute to refill.


Added advantage re rain water use is its soft water for a washing machine as mentioned above plus you cannot be charged for water out as they do not know how much you have returned to the sewer.


One more thing here. They are starting to seperate the toilet out and the washing water out into seperate pipes. Wonder when that will hit Ireland?

Marcin_diy

Poland
- no free allowances,
1000 L of water ~ 0.90 euro

1000L of waste water = 1.2 euro

This is average price for my home city, however prices are different in every single city.

makeorbrake

Greenman wrote: »

They do not really stack up but over here if you do a new build or renovate you are obliged to fit a rain water tank and pump.

Wow - they've included it in their building regs - that's tough love!

Greenman wrote:

Next year I might have to drain the tank or hope for a drought and get into the tank and wash it clean. Otherwise I do not see any ongoing costs. The pump uses 700 watts per hour. If you flush for a number 2 it runs for a minute to refill.

Does it work out more expensive (with pumping costs) than actually paying for 'fresh' water?

Greenman wrote:

One more thing here. They are starting to seperate the toilet out and the washing water out into seperate pipes. Wonder when that will hit Ireland?

That's so much more advanced. God only knows how long it will take us to get there.


I'm not a big fan of taxes (who is) but I actually agree with this one. of course, in Ireland - as with all pooled funds - the issue is with the delivery of value for money! It will take a couple of generations before we get our act together on that front.

However, I can see from what you describe in BE and what the others have described re. DE - that the europeans are geared up for efficiency - and that's the smart approach.

I'm surprised that this particular charge has got everyones back up. I think that peoples general displeasure is being channeled against the wrong tax. It should be channeled against the pension levy and/or the universal social charge (which was meant to be temporary).

Greenman

makeorbrake wrote: »

Does it work out more expensive (with pumping costs) than actually paying for 'fresh' water?

Not sure how you calculate that, but its installed and you don't pay for the water out :-)


Re Irish Water, I think it was a rushed job and badly handled and money wasted.


Many of the will not pay maybe are people who think everything is free? on the otherhand its unfair to be expected to pay full whack when the water is brown and or undrinkable.


Its like if you brought ID cards to Ireland, can you imagine the protests, ah but they are bringing them through the back door via the social welfare card as per. It look like a near copy of my Belgian ID card.





Maybe it was better the bring in the meters in slowly slowly no shocks.


Ah well thats Ireland.

murphaph

It seems both Poland and Belgium charge more for waste water treatment than drinking water supply. Intuitively I find this makes sense...it must be much more labour intensive (and therefore more expensive) to run the waste water system than the drinking water supply system. In Germany the contribution towards waste water is a small fraction of the cost of the drinking water. That doesn't add up to me.

Thanks for posting OP. It's interesting to compare the different billing systems.

I am not in favour of free allowances being administered by the water board (needless admin overhead that essentially duplicates admin in already existing and indispensable government departments like Revenue and Welfare. I think these allowances should simply be handled by way of extra tax credits or social welfare payments or whatever. I also think people are less likely to try to pull fast ones with Revenue and Welfare than with IW, who have shown themselves to be an administrative shambles (all happened far too quick, though i fully agree with the principle of water metering and paying according to use).

In most water regions here it's possible to get a garden meter fitted after your main meter. This works out how much you use to water the plants and then this amount is deducted from the waste water amount as it is not flowing back into the treatment system. Though this extra meter is the maintenance responsibility of the occupant and that includes replacing it when it is out of calibration etc.

Some German councils also attach the rainwater harvesting as a condition of planning on new builds, but it's not universal. When building a new house (as we will be doing next year) I cannot see any good reason not to at least get a 5000L plastic tank buried in the garden. The digger etc. will be on site anyway and the tanks are relatively inexpensive. Where we're building we have high groundwater and so we'll sink a well for the garden water, but we'll use rainwater for the toilets and washing machine (very high iron and manganese content in the well water where we're building so not ideal at all for the washing machine). If your groundwater is high then a shallow (don't need a monster pump) well can be a very cost effective solution for water for the hose pipe!

makeorbrake

murphaph wrote: »

It seems both Poland and Belgium charge more for waste water treatment than drinking water supply. Intuitively I find this makes sense...it must be much more labour intensive (and therefore more expensive) to run the waste water system than the drinking water supply system. In Germany the contribution towards waste water is a small fraction of the cost of the drinking water. That doesn't add up to me.

Is it a case that the Germans are thinking in terms of resource efficiency - and want to concentrate peoples thinking as regards do I need to use this water in the first instance - rather than deal with wastewater separately?

murphaph wrote: »

I am not in favour of free allowances being administered by the water board (needless admin overhead that essentially duplicates admin in already existing and indispensable government departments like Revenue and Welfare. I think these allowances should simply be handled by way of extra tax credits or social welfare payments or whatever.

I agree completely. Furthermore, as well as a more simplified system, its one which encourages the greatest resource efficiency.

murphaph wrote: »

Some German councils also attach the rainwater harvesting as a condition of planning on new builds, but it's not universal. When building a new house (as we will be doing next year) I cannot see any good reason not to at least get a 5000L plastic tank buried in the garden. The digger etc. will be on site anyway and the tanks are relatively inexpensive.

Are plastic tanks cheap? I know the prices I was getting a few months back were scary! I'd be interested to see what price you get in DE?

murphaph

I just had a quick google. There's one 5500L tank here for €950. If I can displace 40% (which is what is expected as the toilets and washing machine alone consume about this much) of my usage I'd save about 200 a year in water bills (last bill was 550) we'd be looking at a 7 or 8 year amortisation (allowing for the pump and extra pipework inside the house) after which time you'd be simply saving 200 a year and as I said before, our water in Berlin is cack. It's wicked hard and using rainwater would benefit the washing machine (extend its life) and eliminate the need for fabric softener etc.

tayto lover

From my observations IW is far too expensive.
If we put in proper water-saving devices they will just increase the price of the water.
Those big wages and bonuses will have to be paid somehow.

galah

Just throwing a cat among the pigeons....in Germany, at least in my hometown, when you own a house, you also pay a rainwater tax - based on the square meterage of sealed land. So you pay for whatever amount of rain hits your paved or tarmacced drive etc and runs off into the public sewerage system to be treated.

Hope the irish government doesn't look too closely at that or a lot of people will be in for a shock....

I made my mum go through a few years worth of water bills just for the craic, and it seems that the average for our family of four (two adults and two then teenagers) was around 80m3 per year. Based on that i really dont know what the fuss here is about.

I can understand why people protest against the shambles that is irish water though. i am ok with having to pay for water, but not the way things are organised here at the moment, bloody joke.

Greenman

murphaph wrote: »

I just had a quick google. There's one 5500L tank here for €950. If I can displace 40% (which is what is expected as the toilets and washing machine alone consume about this much) of my usage I'd save about 200 a year in water bills (last bill was 550) we'd be looking at a 7 or 8 year amortisation (allowing for the pump and extra pipework inside the house) after which time you'd be simply saving 200 a year and as I said before, our water in Berlin is cack. It's wicked hard and using rainwater would benefit the washing machine (extend its life) and eliminate the need for fabric softener etc.

How many cubes did you use last year?

murphaph

Greenman wrote: »

How many cubes did you use last year?

I can't say for certain as our water meter was only installed mid year. The rest of the bill is the old way (based on area of our apartment). We expect however to have increased usage in the new house as well, it's a hose, not an apartment so we'll have a garden to water and cars to wash.

joeysoap

Lagoa Camera in Portugal, (Central Algarve)

standing charge if you don't use any water in a month €7.67 details:
water in charge €1.56 - water out charge €3.00 - bin charges €3.02 (the bin charge is included in the local authority charge) +9c vat.

the monthly tariff is an escalating one - first 5,000 litres per month ( in addition to standing charge above)
water in 0.44c per 1,000 litlres - water out 0.44c per 1,000 litres - bin charges 0.41c (per 1,000 litres used ) and there is another 12 c for something else.


I am looking at a bill for earlier this year 3,000 litres used in that month;
water in €1.56 + €1.32 - water out €3.00 + €1.32 - bin €3.02 + €1.23 + the 12c and vat 18c total €11.75.

the rates for the next 10,000 litres per month are steeper but I do not have them to hand, as I have not exceeded the 5,000 in a month for some time. perhaps as high as €1 per 1,000 litres in and out. suspect the bin charges remain the same. You are billed monthy by direct debit.

by my calculations if I were in Portugal for 12 months I would perhaps pay slightly less than in Ireland BUT with my household waste bill included. (currently around €300 pa in Ireland)

** I omitted that we buy our drinking water, approx 2 x 5L containers per week @ 60c per 5 litres. We use tap water for tea and coffee etc. Adds another €60 per year to costs, but I suspect that most Irish people also do this in Ireland.

helimachoptor

a friend of mine lives in Crete, he pays €5.50 per month for his water supply (2 adults, and soon 2 be 2 kids)

In fairness Crete is pretty mountainous and the mountain areas do see a bit of rain, but the flat areas in the summer are basically dessert like. Tap water is fine to drink but bottled water is cheap and plentiful.

My friend was in in IReland during 2007 when it basically rained non stop for months.. he cant believe how much its going to cost

tayto lover

helimachoptor wrote: »

a friend of mine lives in Crete, he pays €5.50 per month for his water supply (2 adults, and soon 2 be 2 kids)

In fairness Crete is pretty mountainous and the mountain areas do see a bit of rain, but the flat areas in the summer are basically dessert like. Tap water is fine to drink but bottled water is cheap and plentiful.

My friend was in in IReland during 2007 when it basically rained non stop for months.. he cant believe how much its going to cost

It's a rip-off and we can all see this.
The cronies must make money or Enda won't get a nice handy job when he goes. Hogan already sorted.

Michael D Not Higgins

I pay water charges in Scotland as an unmetered rate tied to council tax. I'm in a one bed flat at the second lowest council tax level and pay ~£320 (~€400) a year for water/waste. The equivalent unmetered amount is €278 in Ireland (€424 without allowance applied).

Metered rates are higher than Ireland and as far as I can tell, there is no allowance for water in metered homes. There is however a lower rate when you pass 25 cubic metres for the year (approx a third of the higher rate for supplied water, and a half of the higher rate for waste water). Average household bill is supposedly £339 a year.

Bob24

Interesting comparisons ... I was curious and checked France (went for Paris as it is managed by local authorities and prices are no the same everywhere).

http://www.paris.fr/pratique/Portal.lut?page_id=1310

- 3.22 euros per 1000 litres for both in and out service
- "meter rental and maintenance" standing fee of 21.75 euros per year
- no free allowance

Interestingly they give the details of where the money is going:
- 35.1% for the drinking water service
- 40.9% for the wast water service
- 24% for a "regional and national solidarity tax for natural water protection" (welcome to France :-)) - basically it seems like this is used to fund local and national agencies in charge helping local operators to modernise their water distribution networks

Greenman

Any idea what Irish Water will be charging for a cube?


What is they're water in water out policy?


How much will the people without meters pay?


Anyway happy you saw my Belgian Water Bill.

Bob24

Greenman wrote: »

Any idea what Irish Water will be charging for a cube?
2.

What is they're water in water out policy?


How much will the people without meters pay?


Anyway happy you saw my Belgian Water Bill.

See details here: http://www.water.ie/customer-applications/charges/

But basically:
- Water supplied: €2.44 per m3
- Wastewater removed: €2.44 per m3 - As far as I understand this is not metered (I guess wastewater is more challenging to meter :-D). For people who have water in metered it will be assumed that the quantity going out is the same as the one going in, and for others the price will be based on the assessed charge
- So in total and for both services: €4.88 per m3 (excluding any free allowance)
- For unmetered prices see table on the link I provided as it depends on how many people live in the property and whether there are kids. But for exemple a household of 2 people (no kids) will be €278.16 per year including the free allowance they are getting

Greenman

It seems I am paying €3,35 a cube, water in water out.


Irish water is charging €4,88 a cube, since it is new for some people in Ireland to pay water charges was it not better so start at a much lower fee?


It was interesting on Primetime to see the costs in the UK and Europe, Ireland was second from the top, now that will annoy more people.

ABajaninCork

My last water bill in London was £391. This was for a 2 bed house in London and was on a rate, and therefore unmetered. My mate in the next borough over pays £44 pm. But she's on a meter.

AlanS181824

Such an interesting thread.

Thanks for sharing.

Bob24

Greenman wrote: »

It was interesting on Primetime to see the costs in the UK and Europe, Ireland was second from the top, now that will annoy more people.

Was it a recent one which still is on RTE Player?

I think the cost was basically calculated based on how much money is currently needed to run the water service divided by how much they expect people to be using once it won't be free anymore. This sounds like a reasonable calculation to me, but unfortunately as with many other things on our small island running the water service is probably more expensive than elsewhere in Europe which results in higher prices for us once there is no more government subsidy :-/

Having said that did Primetime take into account the free allowances (which are likely temporary but still ... as you said it is a way to start lower) and the fact that there is no standing charge? (which I think was a conscious decision but is not standard practise elsewhere).

Greenman

ABajaninCork wrote: »

My last water bill in London was £391. This was for a 2 bed house in London and was on a rate, and therefore unmetered. My mate in the next borough over pays £44 pm. But she's on a meter.

That sounds alot.


Then you have council tax on top of that.


Imagine if they brought that in in Ireland ???

ABajaninCork

Greenman wrote: »

That sounds alot.


Then you have council tax on top of that.


Imagine if they brought that in in Ireland ???

Yup. My last council tax bill was £1100. And that was with the 25% discount given for living alone! But at least they came for the bins weekly.

That's why I view the proposed water charges and the property tax here with some amusement. If I got a council tax bill for E280 and water bill for E278, the cheque would be in the post pronto before the council or Thames Water changed their mind!!

tayto lover

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Yup. My last council tax bill was £1100. And that was with the 25% discount given for living alone! But at least they came for the bins weekly.

That's why I view the proposed water charges and the property tax here with some amusement. If I got a council tax bill for E280 and water bill for E278, the cheque would be in the post pronto before the council or Thames Water changed their mind!!

Did you have to pay to see your doctor?

ABajaninCork

tayto lover wrote: »

Did you have to pay to see your doctor?

No. I paid for my prescriptions though. And I pay for the dentist.

tayto lover

ABajaninCork wrote: »

No. I paid for my prescriptions though. And I pay for the dentist.

What else did you get for your money?

ABajaninCork

What are you talking about??

ABajaninCork

You do realise that the council tax is a local tax in the UK? It doesn't go to central government. The water is paid to whatever water company covers your area. In my case, it was Thames Water. Charges for medical expenses are covered by the NI stamp. Think it's about 9% at the moment.

Bob24

ABajaninCork wrote: »

That's why I view the proposed water charges and the property tax here with some amusement. If I got a council tax bill for E280 and water bill for E278, the cheque would be in the post pronto before the council or Thames Water changed their mind!!

I guess it is not only an Irish thing - people tend to look abroad for things which are more advantageous but prefer to conveniently ignore them when it is the other way around :-D

Out of curiosity, is there an equivalent of the local property tax in the UK and if yes what kind of amounts are we talking about?

And while I definitly support social welfare and good and afordable public services, I personally find it a huge mistake to give things like this completely free of charge rather than having a heavily subsidised tariff; it disconnects people from reality and makes them forget the service doesn't actually come free of charge for the governement, i.e. for taxpayers. It seems we are having a hard time striking the right balance: on one hand a lot of people think water should be completely free, but on the other hand everyone accepts to shell out crazy money to see their GP or even more so for their dentist, with much higher prices than EU average and no subsidy whatsoever from the governement.

AlanS181824

Just realised you're in the Dutch speaking area of Belgium so eh...

Kwak, ik ben een pinda

Michael D Not Higgins

Bob24 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, is there an equivalent of the local property tax in the UK and if yes what kind of amounts are we talking about?

There's council tax in the UK, which varies on the council area but I pay just over £900 a year on the second lowest council tax rate for Edinburgh.

There are benefits to that though. Bin and recycling collection are provided as a council service.

Bob24

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

There's council tax in the UK, which varies on the council area but I pay just over £900 a year on the second lowest council tax rate for Edinburgh.

There are benefits to that though. Bin and recycling collection are provided as a council service.

Thanks, but I am getting it wrong in saying that council tax is different from the Irish LPT as it is charged to the occupier of the property (ie to the tenant if the property is rented) whereas the Irish LPT is always charged to the owner?

I was wondering whether there is a tax on owning property? I know a number of countries on the continent have both: one tax for the occupier which is used to fund local government services and one tax for the owner which is more like a regular national tax (meaning an owner-occupier is paying two taxes).

jester77

Wow, water is very cheap in Belgium. My annual bill is more than twice that.

Michael D Not Higgins

Bob24 wrote: »

Thanks, but I am getting it wrong in saying that council tax is different from the Irish LPT as it is charged to the occupier of the property (ie to the tenant if the property is rented) whereas the Irish LPT is always charged to the owner?

I was wondering whether there is a tax on owning property? I know a number of countries on the continent have both: one tax for the occupier which is used to fund local government services and one tax for the owner which is more like a regular national tax (meaning an owner-occupier is paying two taxes).

It's effectively the same, a tax on property based on its value. Ireland just enforces it through the owner who will invariably include the costs in their rent.

I don't think there's any other tax on owning property in the UK (beyond the obvious CGT, tax on rental income, stamp duty).

dave ireland

Reading over the post here just convinces me more that water charges are for generating revenue and nothing else, not only in Ireland but everyware.

I have three 1000lt IBC tanks painted black with a filter system from a fish pond (No UV connected at the minute) there up of the ground so no pump needed for toilet & wash machine down stirs. I also have a small water butt on the shed just for the hell of it. Was in the process of pluming them in when I got a belt of hammer on the head, the hammer been the realization that I am wasting my time, both Irish water & Irish Government have made it very clear at the time that they have a €€€€€€€€ target to meet and if a short fall the price goes up & up & up.

There maybe changes to this but Im sure these are only to get their foot in your door.

All Irish governments (no matter who) have and will rip us off all day long, also Irish company's giving half a chance will rip us off. (this is not Germany, Belgian, Britain or anyware else , this is rip off Ireland)

There is only one road to go down and that is to protest for a water charge that suits people & water supply and not big money. even to just get it stoped till election year so we (people) should get a better safe arrangement that people like myself who are prepared to put time and effort into water harvesting wont be penalized.

Yes there will be another water charge but I will never pay this one based on two things

(1) I do not thrust this Government
(2) I do not thrust Irish water

We need copper fastened safeguards, thrust is gone out the window, don't mind "We wont sell off Irish water unless there is a referendum" ~? they will lease it, not sell it.

We cannot allow something that has no competition of any sort to be freelance, partially when you research the structure and personal background of the set up of Irish water.

Weather you have signed up or not makes no differences (paying through fear of not paying is not acceptance) but we must try to change this now "all of us", we must show the present government & future governments that this water charge will burn them if they try rip us off.

Have you ever seen a protest like this, this is big and there is not much point in only some of us taking to streets , the official response to this is "send in the judges,bailiffs or let them drink the rain.

We must try stop this ontill 2016 with no payments at all till then

L1011

tayto lover wrote: »

Did you have to pay to see your doctor?

Most NHS GPs now take up to a week for a routine appointment. I went private instead.

Also, council tax doesn't fund the NHS anyway, the painfully high NI contributions on wages do

mel.b

My parents are in Victoria Australia and their charges as best i can understand are:

- annual service availability charge. Depends on connection size. A 20-25mm connection is $169.02, a 32mm connection is $433.23 and a 40mm connection is $676.20. It goes right up to a 150mm connection which is $9150.60. I don't kniw what size connection they have, but imagine it would be one of the lower two.

- water usage charge - treated water $1.9546 per 1000l, untreated $1.0989 per 1000l

- wasterwater serive charge $775.29 per yr.

Water charges are not set throughout the state. A different water board charges the following
- water service charge - $108.76 per year
- water usage charge - $2.5044 per 1000l for the first 440 litres used per day, $3.0414 for 441-880 litres used per day, $3.6287 per 1000l for usage above 880l per day.
- sewerage serivce charge $379.04 per yr
- sewerage disposal charge $ 1.8271 per 1000l
That region also has a parks charge of $70.62 per yr to pay and a waterways and drainage charge cost of $93.00 per yr on top of their bills.

Ouch!

dave ireland

I know I have seen what some other places are paying for something that's not even going through your own pipes.

pixbyjohn

Greenman wrote: »

One more thing here. They are starting to seperate the toilet out and the washing water out into seperate pipes. Wonder when that will hit Ireland?

Ireland is already working on that.
From http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,2451,en.pdf
3.2 Separate Systems Some public sewers carry foul water and surface water (combined systems) in the same pipe.
All new drainage systems should be designed and constructed on the basis of a separate
system, even where draining into a combined system.

random_guy

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Ireland is already working on that.
From http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad,2451,en.pdf
3.2 Separate Systems Some public sewers carry foul water and surface water (combined systems) in the same pipe.
All new drainage systems should be designed and constructed on the basis of a separate
system, even where draining into a combined system.

I think it goes a bit further in this case where water from the toilet and washhand basin/shower will be seperated again. Or at least that's my understanding of it?

Michael D Not Higgins

MYOB wrote: »

Most NHS GPs now take up to a week for a routine appointment. I went private instead.

Also, council tax doesn't fund the NHS anyway, the painfully high NI contributions on wages do

Any more painfully high than PRSI and USC?