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Breeders Cup is insignificant

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  • 01-11-2014 4:17pm
    #1
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭


    Can we please stop this charade of how significant the Breeders Cup is ? My God the thing hasn't mattered in 15 years especially for the Europeans. There was a time when horses like Dancing Brave,Arazi, Jo'Burg, Rock of Gibralter,Kalanisi,Daylami,Workforce,Sakhee and Giants Causeway would go and contest but those days are long gone. Reduced now to second string horses. This point can't be Highland more than the Breeders CupJuvinile Turf. In a year where Aidan has horses like ,JFK,Highland Reel,Gleneagles,Ol'Man River, and Canaletto he sent over the absolute Worst horse at Ballydoyle War Envoy. The Breeders Cup builds it's self as the Championship of Thoroughbred racing which is obviously a Joke because outside of Britain and Ireland no other countries participate.


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    #2
    Harry Angstrom
    Registered Users Posts: 19,351 ✭✭✭✭Harry Angstrom


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    Can we please stop this charade of how significant the Breeders Cup is ? My God the thing hasn't mattered in 15 years especially for the Europeans. There was a time when horses like Dancing Brave,Arazi, Jo'Burg, Rock of Gibralter,Kalanisi,Daylami,Workforce,Sakhee and Giants Causeway would go and contest but those days are long gone. Reduced now to second string horses. This point can't be Highland more than the Breeders CupJuvinile Turf. In a year where Aidan has horses like ,JFK,Highland Reel,Gleneagles,Ol'Man River, and Canaletto he sent over the absolute Worst horse at Ballydoyle War Envoy. The Breeders Cup builds it's self as the Championship of Thoroughbred racing which is obviously a Joke because outside of Britain and Ireland no other countries participate.

    Aidan didn't even run half of those decent two year olds (Gleneagles excepted) in the top European Group Ones so he's hardly going to run them in America. He sent a maiden to contest the RP Trophy last week which amazingly started second favourite and was deservedly well stuffed. His representatives in the Dewhurst and Middle Park were hardly his first string 2yo's either.


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    #3
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    Harry Angstrom wrote: »
    Aidan didn't even run half of those decent two year olds (Gleneagles excepted) in the top European Group Ones so he's hardly going to run them in America. He sent a maiden to contest the RP Trophy last week which amazingly started second favourite and was deservedly well stuffed. His representatives in the Dewhurst and Middle Park were hardly his first string 2yo's either.

    I used him as an example. It's not his job to carry the Flag of European racing around the world. surely there must be some up and coming trainers in either England or Ireland that can use a G1 victory. Botti,Verian,Lyons ? If this event were s big as the Racing post and ATR would have us believe there would be a much broader representation. AOB had only 4 runners this year. the most of any non American trainer. Sad fall for the Breeders cup


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    #4
    paddyisreal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    Can we please stop this charade of how significant the Breeders Cup is ? My God the thing hasn't mattered in 15 years especially for the Europeans. There was a time when horses like Dancing Brave,Arazi, Jo'Burg, Rock of Gibralter,Kalanisi,Daylami,Workforce,Sakhee and Giants Causeway would go and contest but those days are long gone. Reduced now to second string horses. This point can't be Highland more than the Breeders CupJuvinile Turf. In a year where Aidan has horses like ,JFK,Highland Reel,Gleneagles,Ol'Man River, and Canaletto he sent over the absolute Worst horse at Ballydoyle War Envoy. The Breeders Cup builds it's self as the Championship of Thoroughbred racing which is obviously a Joke because outside of Britain and Ireland no other countries participate.

    I would say its more relevant than any of the european classics which have lost an awful amount of there prestige. irish classics are a joke and a classic in name only. As Donn Mclean said the flat season is completely different than what it was twenty years ago. There are numerous end of season top class races now -- all over the world. Aob did not have any horses good enough to win any of them this year including the arc, champion stakes in Ireland and England so maybe just maybe he does not have any good enoug to win in the states this year. Saying that , I would love to see Chiquita win this evening. I suppose Goldikova/ ravens pass / high chappararral / quija board are all second rate.... all winners in the last 10 years


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    #5
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    paddyisreal wrote: »
    I would say its more relevant than any of the european classics which have lost an awful amount of there prestige. irish classics are a joke and a classic in name only. As Donn Mclean said the flat season is completely different than what it was twenty years ago. There are numerous end of season top class races now -- all over the world. Aob did not have any horses good enough to win any of them this year including the arc, champion stakes in Ireland and England so maybe just maybe he does not have any good enoug to win in the states this year. Saying that , I would love to see Chiquita win this evening. I suppose Goldikova/ ravens pass / high chappararral / quija board are all second rate.... all winners in the last 10 years

    Where were you when Adelaide won the G1 secretariat ? So much for not having one good enough to win in the sates this year right ? So you're comparing two days of racing, 10 or so races that make up the Breeders cup to classic races in the spring ? look, we know you harbor a great disdain and hatred for European racing. but please think before you post. You're proving my Point. if you have to dig back to find top quality horses from Europe that supported the Breeders cup Then it's not as relevant as you say it is. you would think top class horses FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD would be supporting "The Thoroughbred World championship" EVERY YEAR. THEY DON'T. High Chaparral was 11 years ago, Ouija Board was 8 years ago, Ravens past was 6 years ago, and Goldikova was 4 years ago. NOT VERY CONSISTANT


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    #6
    ziggy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ziggy


    This post has been deleted.


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    #7
    Howjoe1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭Howjoe1


    the prize money certainly isn't insignificant


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    #8
    mr.jingle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭mr.jingle


    Think the Americans try to make it out as the World Championships. The reason a lot of trainers don't send horses is quite simply the cost I'd imagine, entry fees are astronomical I seem to remember.

    Look at Gordon Lord Byron, should be running but no invite and they wouldn't stump up the cash instead there off to Hong Kong.

    Not a huge fan of American racing and the pure speed factors of it, it feels like its let's run the fastest we can and see who lasts home. Horrible to watch imo.

    Still its the intrigue of stuffing the Americans on there own patch that makes it watchable.


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    #9
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    mr.jingle wrote: »
    Think the Americans try to make it out as the World Championships. The reason a lot of trainers don't send horses is quite simply the cost I'd imagine, entry fees are astronomical I seem to remember.

    Look at Gordon Lord Byron, should be running but no invite and they wouldn't stump up the cash instead there off to Hong Kong.

    Not a huge fan of American racing and the pure speed factors of it, it feels like its let's run the fastest we can and see who lasts home. Horrible to watch imo.

    Still its the intrigue of stuffing the Americans on there own patch that makes it watchable.

    The Breeders Cup covers the transportation and Entry fees.


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    #10
    mr.jingle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,404 ✭✭✭mr.jingle


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    The Breeders Cup covers the transportation and Entry fees.

    I know they pay a certain amount of travel expenses up to $40000 but very highly doubt the entry fees are paid


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    #11
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    mr.jingle wrote: »
    I know they pay a certain amount of travel expenses up to $40000 but very highly doubt the entry fees are paid

    If you win one of those "win and you're in races". they pay the fee


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    #12
    Peintre Celebre
    Registered Users Posts: 2,484 ✭✭✭Peintre Celebre


    FIVE2_THREE wrote: »
    If you win one of those "win and you're in races". they pay the fee

    Yeah but the fees otherwise are absolutely astronomical. On my phone can't find it now, in some cases (If mot by nominated stallions) it can be up on 200k if not more


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    #13
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    Peintre Celebre wrote: »
    Yeah but the fees otherwise are absolutely astronomical. On my phone can't find it now, in some cases (If mot by nominated stallions) it can be up on 200k if not more

    But that's a one time fee for stallion eligibility.


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    #14
    Itsabrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭Itsabrack


    Imagine the Americans coming over to our tracks in the same way Europeans travel over there. It would suggest to me that European racing is the strongest in the world. Some great performances, Peace and War was stunning, Why dont they give it a go over here instead of running around the same way in a circle the whole time with pace, pace and more pace.


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    #15
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    Itsabrack wrote: »
    Imagine the Americans coming over to our tracks in the same way Europeans travel over there. It would suggest to me that European racing is the strongest in the world. Some great performances, Peace and War was stunning, Why dont they give it a go over here instead of running around the same way in a circle the whole time with pace, pace and more pace.

    Everything we see in American racing is fake. every track is flat and left turning. there are no challenges like the uphill Finnish at Epsom, The Curragh, or the dip at Newmarket. on race day horses are allowed every race day drug under the sun and unlike the rest of the world whose horses are timed as soon as the gates open. American horses are timed after an 80 yard run up.Animal Kingdom was suppose to be a "Great" horse but we saw what Declaration Of War did to him in the Queen Anne. if you takeaway the Dirt and the Drugs American horses suck.


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    #16
    finbarrk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,427 ✭✭✭finbarrk


    Not insignifficant for the thousands of Europeans that attend annually. I have had some of the best craic at Breeders Cup meetings. Great banter with the yanks. No need to be so negative about a successful annual event.


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    #17
    FIVE2_THREE
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭FIVE2_THREE


    finbarrk wrote: »
    Not insignifficant for the thousands of Europeans that attend annually. I have had some of the best craic at Breeders Cup meetings. Great banter with the yanks. No need to be so negative about a successful annual event.

    Negative ? not me. I'm calling it how I see it. I speak for myself. if you happen to enjoy it then that's great. but me personally. if I wanted to see athletes parade around on drugs and people cheering about how great they are I would watch pro wrestling.


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    #18
    Itsabrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭Itsabrack


    I think there is a case to be made for standardising all horse racing rules under a global authority, however that seems to be some sort of nirvana. I don't know much about lasix but agree that it should be a level playing field around the world and also it has to be weakening the breed in USA as some top commentators on the game have said. Having said all that, I love the Breeders Cup weekend, just to see if the Europeans can compete just as well in the Americans backyard. I know one thing for sure though, if you turn the tables around it would be a different kettle of fish for the Americans. Imagine California Chrome trying to deal with Epsom or even the straight mile at Ascot?


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    #19
    cack_handed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭cack_handed


    Itsabrack wrote: »
    I think there is a case to be made for standardising all horse racing rules under a global authority, however that seems to be some sort of nirvana. I don't know much about lasix but agree that it should be a level playing field around the world and also it has to be weakening the breed in USA as some top commentators on the game have said. Having said all that, I love the Breeders Cup weekend, just to see if the Europeans can compete just as well in the Americans backyard. I know one thing for sure though, if you turn the tables around it would be a different kettle of fish for the Americans. Imagine California Chrome trying to deal with Epsom or even the straight mile at Ascot?

    You would be the brightest and smartest racing administrator in the history of the galaxy if you managed to standardise the racing rules across the US alone. And you don't need to know much about lasix to abhor the prevailing attitude of US racing towards the use of drugs in racing. Of course, they wouldn't really care a toss about what we think of them over here and would scoff at our pathetic attempts at moralising. Doesnt make it any less objectionable in my view.

    I believe the use of lasix is one reason for the palpable decline in quality at the BC, at least from an overseas perspective. Aidan O'B is far too diplomatic to say so publicly, but I am convinced the lasix issue is one that causes Ballydoyle an awful lot of annual head scratching. A couple of years ago there was talk of lasix being phased out of the BC, seem to have rowed back on that completely. I wonder why!


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