Quick Question on VRT

homingbird · 31-10-2014 3:59pm #1

I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

Del2005 · 31-10-2014 5:06pm

homingbird wrote: »

I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

AFAIK it doesn't matter what condition the vehicle comes in the VRT is calculated on it being perfect.

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 5:07pm

You can't VRT a non-runner AFAIK

Breffnigolfer · 31-10-2014 5:12pm

homingbird wrote: »

I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

What you are proposing is illegal. As pointed out above, the NCTS people will not allow you VRT a non-running car. In any event, unless you could provide certification (from an approved body) of the emissions of the car, you would be lumped into the highest rate band.

CiniO · 31-10-2014 5:39pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

You can't VRT a non-runner AFAIK

So how does it work with requirement of VRTing within 30 days of imporing?

If you import non-runner, you have only 30 days to repair the vehicle?
What about people who import classic cars, which they are planning on restoring for few years, before it's ready?

CiniO · 31-10-2014 5:40pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

What you are proposing is illegal.

Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 5:52pm

CiniO wrote: »

Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?

That's not quite what the OP suggested Cinio.......;)

corktina · 31-10-2014 5:57pm

They will not VRT it until it is a viable car. You can't escape this way

CiniO · 31-10-2014 5:59pm

corktina wrote: »

They will not VRT it until it is a viable car. You can't escape this way

Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?

CiniO · 31-10-2014 6:00pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

That's not quite what the OP suggested Cinio.......;)

That's exactly what he suggested.

I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt.

Fact that he wants to import engine as well, is quite irrelevant.

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 6:10pm

He didn't suggest it Cinio
He asked how they charge VRT on a Shell. And he was answered
He then went on to suggest that he could possibly add the engine to an already VRT'd car. And again he was answered.

As for your other question, it has been said both here and on other forums that the 'official' explanation is that you can bring in a non-runner, restore it to a roadworthy condition and then bring it for inspection.
Although this is not specifically mentioned on either the Revenue or NCT sites it is the answer they will give you if you enquire.
Feel free to search for any references to this....I found loads.

corktina · 31-10-2014 6:36pm

CiniO wrote: »

Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?

quite correct, but you will have to pay VRT when you have got it ready for road (if at all)

Marcusm · 31-10-2014 6:39pm

CiniO wrote: »

Does that mean that if you import a car without engine, it's not due VRT, as it's not viable car?

The obligation to register arises within 30 days of importation for a mechanically propelled vehicle which is defined in section 130 Finance Act 1992 (as amended in 2007) as

“mechanically propelled vehicle” means a vehicle that –

(a) has been designed and constructed for road use,
(b) is, at the time of declaration for registration, in compliance with any measures taken to give effect in the State to any act of the European Communities relating to the approximation of the laws of Member States in respect of type-approval for the type of vehicle concerned,
(c) isintendedoradaptedforpropulsionbyamechanicalmeans,orbyanelectrical means or by a partly mechanical and a partly electrical means, and
(d) [is capable of achieving vehicle propulsion at the time of registration, to the satisfaction of the Commissioners,

The collection of parts which is being discussed here is not a mechanically propelled vehcile at the point of importation. The clock does not start runnign at importation. Obviously, once it's rebuilt, it would need to be registered (meaning VRT paid) prior to taking it out on the road.

Breffnigolfer · 31-10-2014 7:00pm

CiniO wrote: »

Importing a car without engine is illegal? How come?

It isn't and I never said it was.

It's amazing how some people love to extract something that was never said in order to have a go at someone!

corktina · 31-10-2014 7:08pm

I think what he was saying is that it would be illegal to avoid VRT in this way, I thought it was quite clear what he meant.

CiniO · 31-10-2014 7:24pm

Breffnigolfer wrote: »

It isn't and I never said it was.

It's amazing how some people love to extract something that was never said in order to have a go at someone!

Well, you said that what OP proposed was illegal.
And I looked at OP's post and seen he proposed to import a car without engine, and import engine separately.
I don't know how else could I understood that.

CiniO · 31-10-2014 7:29pm

Well I just remember from the old days in Poland (before Poland joined EU) importing vehicles in parts was quite common.

As there was horrendous customs duty on cars imported from EU, many importers, were bringing cars in bits - body work separately, engine separate, suspension separately.
This allowed them to avoid paying customs duty on cars, as technically they weren't importing cars but just car parts.
Then at home they would assemble car back together, and register it as "own assembled vehicle". So in registartion document, it wouldn't be f.e. honda civic, but "homemade vehicle".

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 7:35pm

CiniO wrote: »

That's exactly what he suggested.

Fact that he wants to import engine as well, is quite irrelevant.

CiniO wrote: »

Well I just remember from the old days in Poland (before Poland joined EU) importing vehicles in parts was quite common.

As there was horrendous customs duty on cars imported from EU, many importers, were bringing cars in bits - body work separately, engine separate, suspension separately.
This allowed them to avoid paying customs duty on cars, as technically they weren't importing cars but just car parts.
Then at home they would assemble car back together, and register it as "own assembled vehicle". So in registartion document, it wouldn't be f.e. honda civic, but "homemade vehicle".

....and this is relevant ????

CiniO · 31-10-2014 7:36pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

....and this is relevant ????

No, not at all.
Just wrote is as a little side story somehow related to the subject.
Completely irrelevant.

corktina · 31-10-2014 7:49pm

CiniO wrote: »

Well, you said that what OP proposed was illegal.
And I looked at OP's post and seen he proposed to import a car without engine, and import engine separately.
I don't know how else could I understood that.

"and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion

galwaytt · 31-10-2014 7:54pm

homingbird wrote: »

I was thinking if you import a car with no engine how do they charge you vrt. I was looking at the thread on importing a mustang from the usa. If the buyer had the engine removed & sent separate you turn up to the nct with your car on a trailer no engine would you get a lower rate you would have all the paperwork to show you imported the car with no engine.

No, you get charged full rate as if it's a complete car - they closed this loophole years ago to stop people bringing in damaged repairables on the cheap vrt rate, and fixing them and flogging them on and making a killing. They now assess based in it's repaired or finished condition.

galwaytt · 31-10-2014 7:58pm

corktina wrote: »

I think what he was saying is that it would be illegal to avoid VRT in this way, I thought it was quite clear what he meant.

...except he couldn't avoid it, so that's a bit of a non - sequitur. .

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 8:11pm

galwaytt wrote: »

No, you get charged full rate as if it's a complete car - they closed this loophole years ago to stop people bringing in damaged repairables on the cheap vrt rate, and fixing them and flogging them on and making a killing. They now assess based in it's repaired or finished condition.

So what you're saying Galway is if I arrive on with a rolling shell they will VRT it. I was led to believe ( and neither the Revenue nor the NCT sites say otherwise) that you can only VRT a 'mechanically-propelled' vehicle....even the NCT say that the vehicle must be roadworthy.

Marcusm · 31-10-2014 8:13pm

corktina wrote: »

"and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion

That would not be tax evasion but at worst an aggressive deferral and it certainly does not smack of illegality; when the engine is installed and the car is capable of propulsion, the liability to tax would arise and not before.

CiniO · 31-10-2014 8:15pm

corktina wrote: »

"and re-install the engine to evade some or all of the VRT" the OP may as well have added. That's where it is illegal. Tax evasion

Well, but it's clear now this can't be the case, as you can't VRT incomplete car.
So nothing illegal in either bringing incomplete car, or engine separately.

mgbgt1978 · 31-10-2014 8:20pm

deleted....more or less what Cinio posted.

corktina · 31-10-2014 9:22pm

CiniO wrote: »

Well, but it's clear now this can't be the case, as you can't VRT incomplete car.
So nothing illegal in either bringing incomplete car, or engine separately.

Neither the other guy nor me said that it was! But we'll just say you are right and keep you happy eh!

homingbird · 31-10-2014 10:58pm

To Clear it up you cant be charged tax ( vrt ) if you turn up at the nct with a non runner after import so it buys you time to put it on the road. How would this work if you bought a car near vintage & waited until it turned vintage . Its only 200 euro to vrt a vintage car or 1k up before hand.

corktina · 01-11-2014 8:24am

you didn't get the hang of "clear it up" yet , did you!

arthur daly · 01-11-2014 10:13am

Op I would be inclined to ring revenue and see what they say.

arthur daly · 01-11-2014 10:14am

Op I would be inclined to ring revenue and see what they say.

homingbird · 01-11-2014 2:19pm

Every year a car devalues so the longer it can be put off to vrt a car the better.

homingbird · 01-11-2014 2:26pm

To say it is illegal to avoid vrt could'nt be more wrong the EU are fining the irish government for having a illegal tax ( vrt ) because it stops the free flow of european goods. But the gov make more out of the tax so keep paying the fine.

Breffnigolfer · 05-11-2014 9:00am

homingbird wrote: »

To say it is illegal to avoid vrt could'nt be more wrong the EU are fining the irish government for having a illegal tax ( vrt ) because it stops the free flow of european goods. But the gov make more out of the tax so keep paying the fine.

How can you keep a straight face and post this? You couldn't be more wrong.

Can you tell us all how much the fine for 2013 was?

Quick Question on VRT

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