Getting it right...for once...

I've a long history of buying cars that end up costing me a fortune in repairs. I want to get it right this time but am pretty clueless about motors. For once I plan to do the research and am starting with Boards! Any advice would be appreciated. Budget=circa €10,000. Im looking for a Used Diesel Manual with greater than 1 litre engine. I'm going to be doing long distance commutes and need something very reliable. As a starting point what make of car should I be looking at?

bazz26

Something like a Hyundai i30 or Kia Ceed. Both are pretty much the same car underneath and generally they are very reliable.

Hyundai i30:


http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/Hyundai/i30/1.6-DIESEL/63214065625877980/

Kia Ceed:

http://www.driving.ie/used-cars/KIA/Ceed/CEED-1.6/94414144357788760/

Sgt Pepper 64

VW have a good rep for their diesel engines, particularly the Golf

just google best diesel cars

Cheensbo

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

VW have a good rep for their diesel engines, particularly the Golf

just google best diesel cars

The 2.0tdi, which is used across the board in VAG (Audi, skoda, vw, seat) has an awful rep (injector issues dmf's, ecu troubles) not sure if it has improved in recent years, but the vintage and budget the OP would be after would probably fall into that engine bracket.

I'd be looking into something similar to what Bazz has listed, personally.

Toyotafanboi

Cheensbo wrote: »

The 2.0tdi, which is used across the board in VAG (Audi, skoda, vw, seat) has an awful rep (injector issues dmf's, ecu troubles) not sure if it has improved in recent years, but the vintage and budget the OP would be after would probably fall into that engine bracket.

I'd be looking into something similar to what Bazz has listed, personally.

x2

Every day there's at least 1 new thread about a problem with a VAG diesel on here.

I cant remember the last person on with a problem with their i30.

Sure VW's offer a perception of build quality and reliability but the reality seems a little far removed.

MuppetCheck

Not all the 2 litres are bad, it depends on the car. There is more than just one 2 litre VAG engine. The Koreans aren't as reliable as they are made out to be. Two in the family have been far from reliable. The Kia diesel has been back to the dealers about 10 times at this stage (most recently it goes into limp mode randomly), the VAG diesel with the same mileage hasn't missed a beat.

With the 1.9 it's easy to get the dodgy engine codes, don't know why someone would want one at this stage though.

If you're buying a VAG get a 2 litre common rail one and they are a solid engine.

Toyotafanboi

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If you're buying a VAG get a 2 litre common rail one and they are a solid engine.

the manufacturers precedent of diesels is patchy enough to this point to warrant staying away perhaps?

i have to say, i disagree on the Koreans, although their interior plastics and door closing noises aren't quiet on European par, their reliability is out in front.

seemingly also if their is an issue, they stand over it. with double the warranty that the likes of VAG offer. buy a new Kia this year and in 2021 they will still hear you out. VW will have lost interest by 2016.

I'm just looking at it from the point of view of if i were buying a TV, one is a cheaper alternative to the market standard, but it's of similar spec, more reliable, has double the warranty of the other but the buttons on the remote feel slightly less good to press. it'd still be a no brainer to buy it.

not having a pop at you specifically MC for the most part. although i assume your Leon has the 2.0CR engine so you are unlikely to agree with me :pac: we're all friends here !

Bpmull

looking at vag Diesel engines overall

2.0tdi cr: reliable engine no real common issues
1.6tdi cr: reliable engine no real common issues
2.0tdi pd: some models were effected by oil pump issues gave injector trouble but were recalled.
1.9tdi pd: all engine codes reliable expect bxe* engines.

* bxe engine conrods can break effectively ruining the engine bxe engine was used from late 2006 to late 2008 in most 1.9tdi vag cars. There is no proper stats on failure rates some are failing very low but then I know of several examples with that engine code with 250-300k km on them with original engines.

If you were really playing it safe buying a newer vag car with either a 1.6 or 2.0 tdi cr engine your probability of having issues will be fairly low. The i30 and ceed are very popular and seem to be very reliable I'd personally rather take the bus than drive one after years of my parents having Hyundai stuff I just hate them but that's just me.

MuppetCheck

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

the manufacturers precedent of diesels is patchy enough to this point to warrant staying away perhaps?

i have to say, i disagree on the Koreans, although their interior plastics and door closing noises aren't quiet on European par, their reliability is out in front.

seemingly also if their is an issue, they stand over it. with double the warranty that the likes of VAG offer. buy a new Kia this year and in 2021 they will still hear you out. VW will have lost interest by 2016.

I'm just looking at it from the point of view of if i were buying a TV, one is a cheaper alternative to the market standard, but it's of similar spec, more reliable, has double the warranty of the other but the buttons on the remote feel slightly less good to press. it'd still be a no brainer to buy it.

not having a pop at you specifically MC for the most part. although i assume your Leon has the 2.0CR engine so you are unlikely to agree with me :pac: we're all friends here !

There was a bad patch, no qualms there from me. The OPs budget can get him one of the decent ones though.

I dunno about the Koreans, perceived quality isn't everything. My father has called his 131 ceed with a very high spec - leather, nav, xenons, basically every possible extra - the biggest heap of shyte he's ever bought. Constant problems, bits breaking, car being stranded, losing power when overtaking, not starting. It's looking like a very grim future and the warranty is of little use when you're older and have arthritis. My sisters 07 petrol and herself sisters 07 petrol aren't exactly issue free either. Both have needed to be towed, my sisters twice and this is a car with under 70k km and it's impeccably well looked after in terms of servicing. And they wash their hands on issues like all the rest - they have told my dad nothing is wrong with his car. Video and photographic evidence is going to be submitted. But no doubt the computer not having a fault code will mean that that's all bull crap. Again. The warranty isn't all its cracked up to be.

I've had a very bad CR170 too, so bad that I had to sell it but it had been tampered with too. The bad ones are known, there was a bad period but what is being churned out at the moment is a lot better than what people give them credit for.

I considered a Korean option not so long ago and concluded the marketing fools a lot of people. They really are not what they are cracked up to be. My own father has lost faith in his car. He bought it as a retirement car but is afraid to take it outside of town now. I'm not taking it for a run any longer as it's downright dangerous. If they won't help he'll have to dig deep and replace it. Some retirement car.

This is first hand experience here, not personal preference arguing a point. I understand everyone has an opinion! Peace:D;)

Pity as the newer ceed isn't half bad bar the shyte steering otherwise.

JohnBoy26

Bpmull wrote: »

looking at vag Diesel engines overall

2.0tdi cr: reliable engine no real common issues
1.6tdi cr: reliable engine no real common issues
2.0tdi pd: some models were effected by oil pump issues gave injector trouble but were recalled.
1.9tdi pd: all engine codes reliable expect bxe* engines.

* bxe engine conrods can break effectively ruining the engine bxe engine was used from late 2006 to late 2008 in most 1.9tdi vag cars. There is no proper stats on failure rates some are failing very low but then I know of several examples with that engine code with 250-300k km on them with original engines.

If you were really playing it safe buying a newer vag car with either a 1.6 or 2.0 tdi cr engine your probability of having issues will be fairly low. The i30 and ceed are very popular and seem to be very reliable I'd personally rather take the bus than drive one after years of my parents having Hyundai stuff I just hate them but that's just me.

The VW's that you highly regard are no angels when it comes to reliability. Even the 1.9's aren't infalable . Conrod problems can be prevented by changing the bottom end bearings every so often but they also can give a multitude of other issues like hg failure and camshaft wear.

I'd defiantly have kia /Hyundai ahead of a vag product for reliability but in saying that a vag car usually is better finished, for example the interior is usually nicer and of higher quality.

NIMAN

I always wonder about this VAG reliability issue and if its as bad as some make out?

If they were so unreliable, would the Golf be one of the top sellers in Ireland, the UK and Europe for several decades?

Toyotafanboi

NIMAN wrote: »

I always wonder about this VAG reliability issue and if its as bad as some make out?

If they were so unreliable, would the Golf be one of the top sellers in Ireland, the UK and Europe for several decades?

older golfs, say mk3 and older being simpler probably made them a more reliable vehicle, there were also fewer sales alternatives in the 80's, the japs were only arriving on scene and the Koreans hadn't even been born yet.

i was going to say, if they were as "bulletproof" as the marketers have made us believe, then why haven't VW upped their warranty in line with what is becoming the industry norm: 5 years, but then i realised, they don't entertain claims anyway, goodwill is virtually impossible to get and re-calls for well documented faults? never!

Bpmull wrote: »

I'd personally rather take the bus than drive one after years of my parents having Hyundai stuff I just hate them but that's just me.

have you sat in a modern hyundai? they aren't a bad place to be.

Bpmull

NIMAN wrote: »

I always wonder about this VAG reliability issue and if its as bad as some make out?

If they were so unreliable, would the Golf be one of the top sellers in Ireland, the UK and Europe for several decades?

But there not unreliable at all. Overall the golf for example is a very reliable car people wouldnt buy them one after another if they weren't. Tbh in my opinion most newer vag stuff Are very reliable sure they have there flaws but so does everything else. My parents octavia is 3 years old next month and fast approaching 100k km it's yet to be in the garage for anything other than oil and filter changes that's it. Sorry 2 DRL bulbs blew too how can you call that anything but reliable. The older octavia they was sold to a relative theres 250k km on that now and it's never had an issues. I have neighbours who have a 06 passat from new with over 200k km on it now and the only thing it needed outside of general services was a set of heater plugs that's even on an original clutch. The thing is though you never hear the good stories only ever the bad.

Tbh the hyundai they had spent plenty of time in the dealers and they were all new. The reason you here so many bad stories on here about golfs for example compared to i30s / ceeds are the quantities of golfs on the road far far out weigh the number of i30s that are on the road everything is relative.

Bpmull

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

have you sat in a modern hyundai? they aren't a bad place to be.

My parents had a brand new ix-35 in 2010 which they traded in a santa fe they had from new for. The ix-35 a modern Hyundai was a sh!t box in every sense of the word. It was 2.0 diesel which done 33 mpg :eek: extremely loud and just unrefined even at 2k revs it sounds like it was being reved to the limiter just loud. Seats weren't great either and this was the top spec one. They traded that it at 11 months old with 29k km on it. Infairness the Santa Fe they had before it was reasonably ok it was the delux model but I could never see the 50 k euro price justified in it myself. The whole steering rack failed on that twice but was under warranty. My dad also had another Santa Fe for work which caused a lot of trouble engine wise. I don't have much experience with i30s or ceeds and I'm not writing them off by an means but the interior would put me of them both.

JohnBoy26

Bpmull wrote: »

But there not unreliable at all. Overall the golf for example is a very reliable car people wouldnt buy them one after another if they weren't. Tbh in my opinion most newer vag stuff Are very reliable sure they have there flaws but so does everything else. My parents octavia is 3 years old next month and fast approaching 100k km it's yet to be in the garage for anything other than oil and filter changes that's it. Sorry 2 DRL bulbs blew too how can you call that anything but reliable. The older octavia they was sold to a relative theres 250k km on that now and it's never had an issues. I have neighbours who have a 06 passat from new with over 200k km on it now and the only thing it needed outside of general services was a set of heater plugs that's even on an original clutch. The thing is though you never hear the good stories only ever the bad.

Tbh the hyundai they had spent plenty of time in the dealers and they were all new. The reason you here so many bad stories on here about golfs for example compared to i30s / ceeds are the quantities of golfs on the road far far out weigh the number of i30s that are on the road everything is relative.

"Not unreliable at all" a bit of an overstatement don't you think?

(As said in previous post)The 1.9 TDI(newer generation with injectors inside rocker cover) Camshafts wear and it's not uncommon. Bottom end bearings can collapse causing the conrod to go through the block if not caught on time(most aren't), hg gasket failure also isn't unknown.

2.0 TDI PD injectors, oil pumps give trouble, the latter leading to catastrophic engine failure if not caught on time( a well known problem)

1.6 TDI. Egr issues, water pump failures(sometimes well before interval) and flywheels can give up the ghost at a relatively low mileage although I'll excuse it of that as it's a common issue on many modern cars. Dpf's also can give problems but again a common problem across the board so I'll excuse.

2.0 TDI CR as above flywheels and dpf problems but other than that so far they seem reliable, early example were suppose to suffer from oil pump trouble similar to 2.0 PD, although there is no substantial evidence to back this up, only anecdotal accounts and I haven't experienced it or seen it myself.

As for the petrols, I don't think I have to say much about them, the 1.4 was a massive oil burner and a soft engine(as we all know) the 1.6 16 valve was the same and the 8 valve version was no great shakes either.

140 and 170 bhp versions of the tsi engine are known to be troublesome

Timing chains are a weak point on some petrol vw's.

Not saying all Vag products are "unreliable" they make some nice cars but some can give their problems and they are massively overrated from a "indestructible German engineering" perspective, which is how they are viewed in some quarters, for example the UK where they are like gods gift.

Toyotafanboi

BP, i'm sorry to always clash with your posts. i'm not bickering with you in particular, so please don't see it as anything like that. you just always raise good points of discussion .

But there not unreliable at all. Overall the golf for example is a very reliable car people wouldn't buy them one after another if they weren't.

yes, they would. it's all in the marketing (imo).

Tbh in my opinion most newer vag stuff Are very reliable sure they have there flaws but so does everything else. My parents octavia is 3 years old next month and fast approaching 100k km it's yet to be in the garage for anything other than oil and filter changes that's it. Sorry 2 DRL bulbs blew too how can you call that anything but reliable. The older octavia they was sold to a relative theres 250k km on that now and it's never had an issues. I have neighbours who have a 06 passat from new with over 200k km on it now and the only thing it needed outside of general services was a set of heater plugs that's even on an original clutch. The thing is though you never hear the good stories only ever the bad.

Tbh the hyundai they had spent plenty of time in the dealers and they were all new. The reason you here so many bad stories on here about golfs for example compared to i30s / ceeds are the quantities of golfs on the road far far out weigh the number of i30s that are on the road everything is relative.

look at the driver power 2014 survey. not hearsay, by one man or another about him or his neighbours car, real world figures.

the best cars to own 2014 in terms of overall owner satisfaction

#5 = mk3 kia rio
#9 = mk2 kia cee'd
#17 = mk7 golf
#27 = mk2 octavia
#41 = mk1 i40
#57 = mk1 i30
#86 = mk6 golf
#87 - mk1 ix35
#114 = mk2 santa fe
#142 = mk5 golf

that puts the mk6 golf 29 places below the mk i30 for example. or the mk2 cee'd 8 places ahead of the mk7 golf.

manufacturer rankings in terms of overall ownership experience per brand.

#1 = skoda
#7 = kia
#18 = hyundai
#19 = VW

best dealers, established through customer satisfaction

#4 = skoda
#10 = kia
#13 = hyundai
#29 = VW

the new car sales percentages from SIMI, vw vs. hyundai

2014 VW 12% HY 8% (4% gap)
2013 VW 12% HY 8% (5% gap)
2012 VW 12% HY 5% (7% gap)
2011 VW 10% HY 4% (6% gap)
2010 VW 10% HY 3% (7% gap)

now i'm not saying the Koreans are doing well, but for such a newcomer to the market, they are doing very well for themselves. looking at those sales figures, if i was VW, i would be concerned. over the last 5 years VW have virtually stood still, Hyundai have nearly tripled their market share.

currently speaking 18.9k for a new deluxe i30, 23.7k for a new comfortline golf... just shy of 5k more for the golf,is it 5k better than the i30?

people are copping on.

Bpmull

@tfb you bickering doesn't bother me infairness I'm not going to argue with the facts in terms of that survey as that's clearly what the public think and I have no issue with that. Infairness a lot of the Hyundai garages try better to meet there customers needs there are some truly atrocious vw and skoda dealers out there. I don't even buy parts for my golf in our local dealer ill either get them in carlow or cork that's how bad they are. We all have our own preferences I dislike Kia Hyundai stuff but like a lot of Renault stuff which alot of people hate. I'm far from a vw fanboi myself anyway.

@johnboy good detailed post and I've literally heard of all them failure items so I'm not going to say they don't fail on vag stuff. But the probability of some them you've mentioned failing are quite low and dpf, dmf are common failure items on all diesels so I wouldn't count them although I think you did mention that.

@op not to completely ruin your thread if I was in your shoes with 10k not knowing what you want and wanting something reliable in diesel id go around and test drive the following;
Vw Golf tdi mk5
Skoda octavia tdi
Hyundai i30
Kia ceed
Opel astra cdti (ideally 1.7 as it's abit quicker than a 1.3)
Ford focus 1.8tdci (more reliable than the 1.6 Psa engine)
Audi a3 tdi
Honda civic (although the 2.2 cdti engine maybe to big)

Once you've driven looked at all them pick the top 3 and post here and then everyone can tell you the pros and cons reliability wise of the cars you've picks. Well that's what I'd do anyway.