Is this the way forward ???

roosky

Well lads,

Currently in Australia and looking into their lamb production systems here and seeing is there anything I could bring home !

They run composite breeds here the cooperworth and the highlander mainly which are bred to produce lamb quick off grass.

The figure for a labour unit in ireland is 1 man to 400 ewes

But a good man set up could run 800 on his own in my opinion but then again manys the man is flat out with 200 because of bad management or set up..............the average man to ewe ratio here is .....wait for it ....4, 500 ewes to one man.

So yes they do get help in to shear and to tail/vaccinate the lambs but thats only 5 men for 2 days !

They lamb all out doors and they lamb them selves , they help lamb less than .05% of ewes and they scan 1.7 and wean 1.3 so its not a bad system!


I was thinking would it be possible to (in ireland) lamb in early/mis april so the ewes have lots of grass and dont need meal pre lambing and lamb them out.......3 big benifits

1. No housing costs, less mortality from diseases
2. No meal feeding costs
3. less labour....can lamb more ewes

Let the the opinion begin !

rangler1

roosky wrote: »

Well lads,

Currently in Australia and looking into their lamb production systems here and seeing is there anything I could bring home !

They run composite breeds here the cooperworth and the highlander mainly which are bred to produce lamb quick off grass.

The figure for a labour unit in ireland is 1 man to 400 ewes

But a good man set up could run 800 on his own in my opinion but then again manys the man is flat out with 200 because of bad management or set up..............the average man to ewe ratio here is .....wait for it ....4, 500 ewes to one man.

So yes they do get help in to shear and to tail/vaccinate the lambs but thats only 5 men for 2 days !

They lamb all out doors and they lamb them selves , they help lamb less than .05% of ewes and they scan 1.7 and wean 1.3 so its not a bad system!


I was thinking would it be possible to (in ireland) lamb in early/mis april so the ewes have lots of grass and dont need meal pre lambing and lamb them out.......3 big benifits

1. No housing costs, less mortality from diseases
2. No meal feeding costs
3. less labour....can lamb more ewes

Let the the opinion begin !

What's the stocking rate, think that would explain the 3 benefits, probably climate too, tried to do it here at 10ewes/ha, but the winters destroyed the ryegrasses in the sward, scutch and meadow grass in the swards badly affected, use those paddocks for dry ewes and mid pregnancy.....definitely wouldn't be flat out with 500 ewes, so 800 could be possible....but do you want to.
Is it there or NZ that farmers carry a gun but don't have foxes....don't think they have the rules and regulations we have here either

roosky

rangler1 wrote: »

What's the stocking rate, think that would explain the 3 benefits, probably climate too, tried to do it here at 10ewes/ha, but the winters destroyed the ryegrasses in the sward, scutch and meadow grass in the swards badly affected, use those paddocks for dry ewes and mid pregnancy.....definitely wouldn't be flat out with 500 ewes, so 800 could be possible....but do you want to.
Is it there or NZ that farmers carry a gun but don't have foxes....don't think they have the rules and regulations we have here either

True not half the red tape but would thats exactly what I want to know is it possibel in ireland?

Running at 7 ewes to ha but thats more so because they have very dry summers and little grass.

You make a good point with "but do you want to" if you had land for 800 ewes you would make a lot more money carrying 120 dairy cows at your ease!

ganmo

roosky wrote: »

Well lads,

Currently in Australia and looking into their lamb production systems here and seeing is there anything I could bring home !

They run composite breeds here the cooperworth and the highlander mainly which are bred to produce lamb quick off grass.

The figure for a labour unit in ireland is 1 man to 400 ewes

But a good man set up could run 800 on his own in my opinion but then again manys the man is flat out with 200 because of bad management or set up..............the average man to ewe ratio here is .....wait for it ....4, 500 ewes to one man.

So yes they do get help in to shear and to tail/vaccinate the lambs but thats only 5 men for 2 days !

They lamb all out doors and they lamb them selves , they help lamb less than .05% of ewes and they scan 1.7 and wean 1.3 so its not a bad system!


I was thinking would it be possible to (in ireland) lamb in early/mis april so the ewes have lots of grass and dont need meal pre lambing and lamb them out.......3 big benifits

1. No housing costs, less mortality from diseases
2. No meal feeding costs
3. less labour....can lamb more ewes

Let the the opinion begin !

they have come a huge way in flock management, they used to let the ewes lamb and just count the dead lambs and mark the ewes that had twins and selling light carcasses.
they had a treated diseases through the flock population not on the individual sheep...welfare and irish farmers themselves couldn't let a sick animal go untreated.

those points are what resulted in them having such a strong flock today.

The point about the losses from Scanning to weaning could be improved imo, but might need more labour.

I'm told ICBF is ahead of the NZ breeding companies in terms of genomics

rangler1

roosky wrote: »

True not half the red tape but would thats exactly what I want to know is it possibel in ireland?

Running at 7 ewes to ha but thats more so because they have very dry summers and little grass.

You make a good point with "but do you want to" if you had land for 800 ewes you would make a lot more money carrying 120 dairy cows at your ease!

How many days to slaughter would you say and what's the slaughter weight

AntrimGlens

Gave a while working on a few stations in Oz and few big factors compared to here.
1) Climate
2) Acreage
3) Stocking rates
4) Genetics
5) Subsidies

While I was in oz this time last yr i looked at the price of a leg of lamb in coles, around 1.2 kg selling for $25 au. They were killing their lambs in and around 16-17kgs, straight off the ewe and getting upwards of $6 au/kg. The consumer traditionally prefered a bit of fat on their lamb in oz compared to here, thus why they work with the dorpers and dorsets & highlanders, although with new genetics they are moving from that now.

They feed their sheep hay in the summer time, having built up a good wedge of grass for them lambing in the spring outdoors, with the acreage they can afford to spread the ewes out more and build up numbers esp when you're killing lambs at 12-16 weeks. Run the ewes dry then for the remainder of the year on stubbles and bare pasture.
The aussies are still missing a trick though, they process minimal amounts of their own produce for shipping. Everything is shipped live and the chinese then take their cut at processing stage for reselling and add the value there. With the recent live shipping issues at Freemantle and the opposition building to these, the govt needs to look at setting up more processing inside its own country and adding value there.
A lot of sheep men over there would be using rams the myomax gene and breeding for carcase, they certainly wouldn't be buying sheep on the colour of their faces, or saying it has the wrong colour noses or wrong shaped horns.

Dairy men over there appreciate sheep - they buy store lambs in their tens of thousands, whereas dairy men here consider them vermin and don't see the benefits, thus lambs are put away at an earlier age than here. There's also plenty of winter grazing on dairy farms, at low cost in certain parts, thus no requirement for expensive winter housing.

No subs - produce what the market wants or get left behind. Simples.

All said, they have plenty of issues too.

Connemara Farmer

AntrimGlens wrote: »

While I was in oz this time last yr i looked at the price of a leg of lamb in coles, around 1.2 kg selling for $25 au. They were killing their lambs in and around 16-17kgs, straight off the ewe and getting upwards of $6 au/kg. The consumer traditionally prefered a bit of fat on their lamb in oz compared to here, thus why they work with the dorpers and dorsets & highlanders, although with new genetics they are moving from that now.

Sounds a lot like hill lamb to me.

roosky

rangler1 wrote: »

How many days to slaughter would you say and what's the slaughter weight

obvious answer is it all depends......same as irish farms

But the lads I have been talking to have first lambs gone at 16 weeks 42 kg ish and then the sell the remaining lambs(stores) in the 9th month about 10% left and at an average LW of 40 kg.



Work out the dates comapared to irish lamb not too far appart !

Green farmer

I'd imagine another difference between here and oz is lack of land in this country. We're all on small holdings here 50-100 acres, ( if we're lucky ) and trying to maximise every blade of grass. What would the average farm size be there? Would they be looking at 10k an acre as we are here ?

Connemara Farmer

Green farmer wrote: »

I'd imagine another difference between here and oz is lack of land in this country. We're all on small holdings here 50-100 acres, ( if we're lucky ) and trying to maximise every blade of grass. What would the average farm size be there? Would they be looking at 10k an acre as we are here ?

I think 34HA or 39HA is the average size farm here, don't know about Oz.

Green farmer

I tried googling it. Turns out the average tillage farm in oz is 800ha. Sheep farms can often run to thousands of ha's of poor quality grazing .

Birdnuts

Its hard to compare systems with totally different climates, soil types, and range carrying capacities. Aren't the Aussies still heavy into wool production on much of their sheep stations?? The South Island in New Zealand would probably make for a better comparison under these headings but would again have a scale drastically different in terms of averge farm size, mechanisation etc. compared to this island.

westman1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EzAJsTxbq4&list=PLA9AF2CB2F12FD793&index=23

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151KZNfFmOI&list=PLA9AF2CB2F12FD793&index=24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrchP5Psxmc&list=PLA9AF2CB2F12FD793&index=26

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKJXdLpPigQ&list=PLA9AF2CB2F12FD793&index=31

just to peek at the other side

Green farmer

Just watched the first episode, the main farm they looked at there had 680ha. Rolling but good quality land. I noticed that their under pressure from the "white and blacks" when sourcing land and the price of land is a big concern. ? Some issues are the same where ever you go :-), good programme to watch though, you'd pick up bits of info that could be put into practice here

Dickie10

breed of sheep is a big thing imo, lots of men go for the colour of sheep faces and bit of mountain in them, the same lads then lamb inside, surely if ure leaving mountain in them u should lamb outside? anyway i decided to aim for the window of oppportunity this year in early mid may and try to get rid of a lot of lambs when price is up at 6/kg, im breeding lynn x ewes with suffolk and HD ram hopefully grow fast on grass held up from mid october/nov on ewes with loads of milk thus cutting back on feed only to lambs as creep, dunno if it will work this is only early stages first year trying but sure u have to be at something! gone off texels seem to take a lot longer to fatten up/grow, i questioned the point of having lovely, clean looking lambs who were still there when arse fell out of the price in july or heavy dirty ass suffolks on a hook in early june for perhaps a euro more per kg

Green farmer

When are your lambs due to be born dickie ? And how do you find the llyen x ewes ? I'm after buying a llyen ram last week to get some replacements from . Will cross back to charlaois and texel .

Dickie10

last week in january the first will arrive... i hope. lleyn x ewes are only ewe lambs this year so this system wont tell me much until another year r two, well the milk effect of the ewes wont be in the system til next year. i just felt the way to make money was to get the most from the grass i had, lleyn supposed to be very good milkers exactly what u need in early spring, they are also easy fed i hear in winter so hopefully i can keeep more sheep on same area, i have an old suffolk ram hopefully he lives long enough to go with the lleyn x ewes next year i might get to keep his eewe lambs which would leave me with half suffolk,quater lleyn ewes, which i think would be good sheep to. it will depend on how much the first x takes away the milk effect if its worth doing another x might lose it too much. i think its been proven in studies that milk effect leaves heavier lambs and quicker weight gain thats what im after

AnFeirmeoir

Dickie10 wrote: »

last week in january the first will arrive... i hope. lleyn x ewes are only ewe lambs this year so this system wont tell me much until another year r two, well the milk effect of the ewes wont be in the system til next year. i just felt the way to make money was to get the most from the grass i had, lleyn supposed to be very good milkers exactly what u need in early spring, they are also easy fed i hear in winter so hopefully i can keeep more sheep on same area, i have an old suffolk ram hopefully he lives long enough to go with the lleyn x ewes next year i might get to keep his eewe lambs which would leave me with half suffolk,quater lleyn ewes, which i think would be good sheep to. it will depend on how much the first x takes away the milk effect if its worth doing another x might lose it too much. i think its been proven in studies that milk effect leaves heavier lambs and quicker weight gain thats what im after

I'm a few years ahead of you here with Belclares instead of Lleyn.
I have ewes now that are on average 75% Belclare and have really missed the suffolk influence this year - so much so that i bought a last minute suffolk ram for half the flock this year.
The lambs simply do not have the weight in them. They are taking an age to get to weight and i still have a lot of them left which i wouldn't normally have. + a lot of my replacements lambs weren't heavy enough this year to go with a ram, which i like doing.
So the milk effect you mention has a Gotcha in it and you don't know you've gone too far until you've gone too far !

rangler1

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

I'm a few years ahead of you here with Belclares instead of Lleyn.
I have ewes now that are on average 75% Belclare and have really missed the suffolk influence this year - so much so that i bought a last minute suffolk ram for half the flock this year.
The lambs simply do not have the weight in them. They are taking an age to get to weight and i still have a lot of them left which i wouldn't normally have. + a lot of my replacements lambs weren't heavy enough this year to go with a ram, which i like doing.
So the milk effect you mention has a Gotcha in it and you don't know you've gone too far until you've gone too far !

1st cross Lleyn is enough as well

Dickie10

ok good advice thanks, i personally prefer a maternal trait sheep to be no more than 50% and id hope that a 50% suffolk, 25% Lleynn, 25% Texel would still give me plenty of milk, good mothering and lively lambs, i heard that one quater maternal ewes still bring out their maternal qualities. A suffolk is a good maternal sheep to a point anyway though right? i just sometimes dont like the dopey 75% suffolk lamb, ok if inside lambing though, but i think id like 50% lleyn ewes outdoor lambing.

Farrell

Dickie10 wrote: »

ok good advice thanks, i personally prefer a maternal trait sheep to be no more than 50% and id hope that a 50% suffolk, 25% Lleynn, 25% Texel would still give me plenty of milk, good mothering and lively lambs, i heard that one quater maternal ewes still bring out their maternal qualities. A suffolk is a good maternal sheep to a point anyway though right? i just sometimes dont like the dopey 75% suffolk lamb, ok if inside lambing though, but i think id like 50% lleyn ewes outdoor lambing.

Got a new Suffolk ram this year, he's a hanging ear type while the last lad was sharper, ewes are Rex & Suffolk cross which we lamb outside, should I be worried about soft lambs?

foxylock

Anyone put a lleyn ram on scotch ewes?

would you have good replacements?

Cran

foxylock wrote: »

Anyone put a lleyn ram on scotch ewes?

would you have good replacements?

Not quiet the same, but I put Lleyn on Mules. Really good replacements from them, not the best looking sheep but perform really well and great mothers. Even the weathers have surprised me finishing tbh, dont have the cover of Charollais X but great growth rates lot better than expected and kill better than they look.

Green farmer

Never had a blackface ewe here, can you carry many more of them to an acre vs lowland ewes ?

foxylock

Green farmer wrote: »

Never had a blackface ewe here, can you carry many more of them to an acre vs lowland ewes ?

my figures wouldn't be an accurate guide as they come in and out off the hill at various times of the year. So not on the land all year. Put a lleyn ram into the mix this year as going to start a flock of crossbreeds. Wonder how they will cope with hill or might keep them down altogether, will see.

Dickie10

no bother with lleyns on hill, it suits them

foxylock

Dickie10 wrote: »

no bother with lleyns on hill, it suits them

all year ?

Dickie10

had a very good experience with the lleyn x texel ewe lambs they were put to hampshire ram , all lambed unassissted, very lively lambs , good growth rates, they lambed from march 20 to april 20 bit dragged out but thats ewe lambs, should be all gone by october late

Dickie10

just an update on lleyn x HD lambs. Nerly all gone here, have just 2 left and there 45kg and 48kg , im leaving them for a fortnight to get another few kilos on because i want the kill out price thier giving in factory.

have to say great lambs, some wont like their apperance with wool on the head etc but for economical very hard to beat. easy lambed and very livly and hardy. never assissted one ewe lamb, the llynn x mother helped a lot, very docile for ewe lambs too. HD X lambs very easy fattened from grass alone great lambs for the shoulders of the year, either finishing for may or november when lots of lush grass might not be in abundance.

if i were to pick a breed for minimal intervention and outdoor lambing in say april it would be the Hampshire Down on lynn cross ewes.