Race Grants

morana

http://www.cyclingireland.ie/cycling-news-item/race-grant-funding-2015/416

I wonder what impact this will have for the Ras (maybe its a prioirty)?

Chips Lovell

It says the Rás is getting €40,000? Same as last year.

nak

I know the track GP is a UCI event, but seems crazy to me that it gets double the funding of Ras na mBan. There weren't that many entrants to the track GP this year, partly due to the timing being so close to the Commonwealth Games.

RobFowl

Bit shocked how little Ras na mBan gets, as the only women stage race really should be pitched between the Ras and junior tour. Womens racing is a real growth area and should be encouraged and nutured.

QueensGael

Anyone have additional details about the new National Road Series? There's already a Women's National League, not sure if that was considered when planning this series…

"The Board would also like to advise members of the intention to run a National Road Series in 2015. This series will consist of 12 x 1-day events with 3 in each province whereby a rider’s best 5 results (that must include events from 3 provinces), will count towards the overall position. The intention is to have the events spread out over the course of the year, with no restriction preventing races on the same day as a National Series event, for other categories.

As the 2015 calendar is currently being finalised the proposed events for the series will be “selected” shortly. Full detail of the series will be announced at the end of November."

wav1

Delighted that our Ras na N'og remains on list.TBH couldn't happen without it.
AFAIK there are events that were funded in previous yrs that are not on the list now..It will be interesting to see how they fare out going forward.

wav1

QueensGael wrote: »

Anyone have additional details about the new National Road Series? There's already a Women's National League, not sure if that was considered when planning this series…

"The Board would also like to advise members of the intention to run a National Road Series in 2015. This series will consist of 12 x 1-day events with 3 in each province whereby a rider’s best 5 results (that must include events from 3 provinces), will count towards the overall position. The intention is to have the events spread out over the course of the year, with no restriction preventing races on the same day as a National Series event, for other categories.

As the 2015 calendar is currently being finalised the proposed events for the series will be “selected” shortly. Full detail of the series will be announced at the end of November."

AFAIK the plan is for a return to a National road league type of series next yr.It would be 1 a month per province from March/August giving an approx 24 event Nat series.In my opinion it wont work as the top riders come together in a natural way at the bigger events anyway.You may get a dozen or so riders who will commit to it but no more.Previously if there was a nat league race on in a particular province no other race for the top riders could be staged anywhere else,but this wont be the case now.So basically if theres a Nat league race on in Belfast,can you see a rider from Munster travelling to it,when there probably will be a race in their own province anyway.
So now,when you're a board member next week,tell them that.

rash

12 events is too much, better to have 5or 6 good quality events until it gets rider buy-in

Sr. Assumpta

wav1 wrote: »

AFAIK the plan is for a return to a National road league type of series next yr.It would be 1 a month per province from March/August giving an approx 24 event Nat series.In my opinion it wont work as the top riders come together in a natural way at the bigger events anyway.You may get a dozen or so riders who will commit to it but no more.Previously if there was a nat league race on in a particular province no other race for the top riders could be staged anywhere else,but this wont be the case now.So basically if theres a Nat league race on in Belfast,can you see a rider from Munster travelling to it,when there probably will be a race in their own province anyway.
So now,when you're a board member next week,tell them that.

I don't know wav1, but I suspect - though it is open to interpretation, given the (typical) lack of specifics - that you may be reading that wrongly... I read it as saying that there will be 12 events in total, that each of the 4 provinces will hold 3 events. I read it that there will only be 1 single National Series Race (well, I assume there'll be one for men, and one for women) event on in the entire country on a given day (it could be in any of the 4 provinces), but that this will not stop other race organisers from organising races "for other categories (only)" on the same day elsewhere.

That's how I've read it anyhow. I guess a Board member / the AGM will bring clarity.

Beasty

RobFowl wrote: »

Bit shocked how little Ras na mBan gets, as the only women stage race really should be pitched between the Ras and junior tour. Womens racing is a real growth area and should be encouraged and nutured.

While I agree with this, it does to me beg a question as to process here. I don't recall seeing these figures published previously and have no idea if all the organisations have known what everyone else gets. I presume each event needs to apply for such grants and it's possible that the Ras na mBan were perhaps unaware as to how much other events have been getting. Having said that they put on a fantastic event regardless and I'm sure any more support they can garner from sponsorship will be particularly welcome as the race grows. In addition, if these figures have not been published before I think it's a very positive move to now do so.

CramCycle

The Board would also like to advise members of the intention to run a National Road Series in 2015. This series will consist of 12 x 1-day events with 3 in each province whereby a rider’s best 5 results (that must include events from 3 provinces), will count towards the overall position. The intention is to have the events spread out over the course of the year, with no restriction preventing races on the same day as a National Series event, for other categories.

As the 2015 calendar is currently being finalised the proposed events for the series will be “selected” shortly. Full detail of the series will be announced at the end of November.

The only benefit I can see to this is to promote races in all provinces. Any reason why Ulster is excluded? forgetting the separate country thing they are still under the cycling Ireland banner.

When they say for other categories, I presume this series is A1 only then?

couerdelion

CramCycle wrote: »

Any reason why Ulster is excluded? forgetting the separate country thing they are still under the cycling Ireland banner.

I don't think it is. 3 in each province and a total of 12 events means all 4 provinces. The 3 provinces just refers to riders competing in at least 3 of the 4 provinces.

wav1

CramCycle wrote: »

The only benefit I can see to this is to promote races in all provinces. Any reason why Ulster is excluded? forgetting the separate country thing they are still under the cycling Ireland banner.

When they say for other categories, I presume this series is A1 only then?

Ulster is not excluded?3 in each province that's 12?

Chips Lovell

I read it as 12 races, 3 in each province alright.

Where does it say Ulster is excluded?

I'd assume that they'd be A1/A2 races as usual but that there'd be no other A1 races on in the country that day.

Beasty

CramCycle wrote: »

Any reason why Ulster is excluded? forgetting the separate country thing they are still under the cycling Ireland banner.

I presume it's because of the limits on numbers imposed by the police. Races in Ulster are often fully subscribed within a few hours of being advertised

EDIT - or not as highlighted by the 3 previous posts!! Those restrictions on numbers will apply though unless roads are closed

wav1

Sr. Assumpta wrote: »

I don't know wav1, but I suspect - though it is open to interpretation, given the (typical) lack of specifics - that you may be reading that wrongly... I read it as saying that there will be 12 events in total, that each of the 4 provinces will hold 3 events. I read it that there will only be 1 single National Series Race (well, I assume there'll be one for men, and one for women) event on in the entire country on a given day (it could be in any of the 4 provinces), but that this will not stop other race organisers from organising races "for other categories (only)" on the same day elsewhere.

That's how I've read it anyhow. I guess a Board member / the AGM will bring clarity.

Yes sorry its 12...3 per province..and yes you are correct in that there will be only 1 nat league event on any given date,but a race for these categories can still go ahead in the other provinces on the same day.This is the part that varies from the past.When a nat league race was on,you couldn't run a race for the A1/A2 riders in other provinces.Still think theres no appetite for it among the riders as they will be reluctant to travel,given that a [non nat league] race will probably still be on in their own province on the same day.

wav1

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I read it as 12 races, 3 in each province alright.

Where does it say Ulster is excluded?

I'd assume that they'd be A1/A2 races as usual but that there'd be no other A1 races on in the country that day.

That's the major difference this time..There will be other A1/A2 races allowed on the same day

Chips Lovell

Are you sure there will be A1 races in other provinces on the same day? The wording gives the impression other provinces can have A2 to A4 races:

....with no restriction preventing races on the same day as a National Series event, for other categories.

wav1

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Are you sure there will be A1 races in other provinces on the same day? The wording gives the impression other provinces can have A2 to A4 races:

TBH I thought I was sure,but maybe not so much now.I have just sent an email seeking clarity re this.I would have a big worry here as for example our own Coombes Connor races and Visit Nenagh Classic are scheduled to clash next yr.If Nenagh were to be granted League status and we were not allowed to promote for A1/A2 riders this would translate into a serious downgrading of our race,which would be unfair,and possibly result in us not promoting it at all.There would be lots of events in the same situation,and needs clarity quickly.In actual fact the idea could end up losing events as explained here.

CramCycle

wav1 wrote: »

Ulster is not excluded?3 in each province that's 12?

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I read it as 12 races, 3 in each province alright.

Indeed, I am stupid it would appear.

Chips Lovell

wav1 wrote: »

TIf Nenagh were to be granted League status and we were not allowed to promote for A1/A2 riders this would translate into a serious downgrading of our race,which would be unfair,and possibly result in us not promoting it at all.

Would you consider running it as an A2 race? And while you'd miss out on the A1 sign-ons, might you get more A2s showing up, given that its a rare chance to race without the big guns? Having said that, I know every promoter would love to have the top names there.

You'd have a better idea than me about the impact, but just throwing it out there.

wav1

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Would you consider running it as an A2 race? And while you'd miss out on the A1 sign-ons, might you get more A2s showing up, given that its a rare chance to race without the big guns? Having said that, I know every promoter would love to have the top names there.

You'd have a better idea than me about the impact, but just throwing it out there.

Will have to wait on reply to email..Probably would consider it but my big fear would be that it would exclude A1 AND A2 riders,,As soon as I get clarity I'll post it up here

Eamonnator

Do BMX and MTB get anything.

wav1

Eamonnator wrote: »

Do BMX and MTB get anything.

Not sure but not listed here for specific race grants?
Delighted to say we have a new BMX rep on Cycling Leinster committee for next season and they will get funding from that angle.

jinkypolly

So in 3 years the An Post Ras will have received €120,000 while for the same period the An Post Ras na mBan will have received €17,000. That's ridiculous.

wav1

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Are you sure there will be A1 races in other provinces on the same day? The wording gives the impression other provinces can have A2 to A4 races:

Clarity received ''No restriction on promoters of other events on the same day in relation to A1/A2 riders''

wav1

jinkypolly wrote: »

So in 3 years the An Post Ras will have received €120,000 while for the same period the An Post Ras na mBan will have received €17,000. That's ridiculous.

Other posters on here [particularly morana] will know more than myself in this regard,but there were changes some yrs back in relation to ras grant.
Up to then then the funding/grant to the ras came directly from the Sports Council through their funding process for major international events.Now it goes to the fed to distribute,but at the end of the day the funds still come from the Sports Council AFAIK...May seem a lot of money,but my understanding is that it was originally to pay for the huge costs of the dope tests,which includes an official UCI doping officer...About 50 tests over the week.
Ras is a huge event,but still run on a very tight budget,and just like most of the others is hugely dependent on the grant to balance the books.

rab!dmonkey

No funding for MTB? Totally looking forward to paying my licence fee for next year

CramCycle

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

No funding for MTB? Totally looking forward to paying my licence fee for next year

Definitely a question for the AGM or the MTB commission, I thought the grants linked to were just those for road racing (although I note track is in there as well), not all grants in general. Does anyone know for certain?

buffalo

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

No funding for MTB? Totally looking forward to paying my licence fee for next year

In fairness, there's 4 road events in there for 2014 that received funding. We could call them: the youth tour, the junior tour, the women's tour and the men's tour. They're all major events and well worthy of funding from the national body. And one track event, of international standing. Nobody should begrudge any of those events getting a grant.

Have you spoken to the MTB reps and determined which events they wanted grants for, and how much funding they sought?

rab!dmonkey

buffalo wrote: »

In fairness, there's 4 road events in there for 2014 that received funding. We could call them: the youth tour, the junior tour, the women's tour and the men's tour. They're all major events and well worthy of funding from the national body. And one track event, of international standing. Nobody should begrudge any of those events getting a grant.

Have you spoken to the MTB reps and determined which events they wanted grants for, and how much funding they sought?

I'm not disputing the worthiness of any of the road events.

I haven't done those things. In my defence, I took a look at my 'Passive-aggressively Complaining About Things on the Internet' checklist and they weren't there.

wav1

rab!dmonkey wrote: »

No funding for MTB? Totally looking forward to paying my licence fee for next year

This announcement refers only to grants for specific events.
It is in no way related to funding for the different disciplines.

eeeee

Did Ballyhoura not get funding for holding the European Marathon Championships this year? ETA The organizers? I don't know how MTB things get funded, are they done by one promoter who has already secured funding and just decide to plonk them in Limerick?

Rás Na mBan funding is shameful.

morana

Firstly grants are given to those who apply and meet certain criteria. Accounts have to be provided on request is one I remember. The organiser requests an amount iirc. The money did come from the isc and was ringfenced for ras and others but that's not the case anymore.

What I meant oscargateaux about the Ras is that funding will change from next year on and if women and youth are prioritized the money for Ra's would change. Most likely downwards.

GMCI

The Ras and International Track GP are UCI events and so have to meet their standards, ie. minimum prize fund depending on the class of the event, for example the Ras grant doesn't even cover the minimum prize fund they HAVE to supply.
Promoting a Class A track GP in Ireland for 12k is a bargain in securing ranking points for our track riders on home turf than having to travel the world more often in search of these qualifying points.

The Junior Tour hasn't had a title sponsor in 5 years and relies on this grant Aid and small sponsorships from other organisations but mainly relies on the good will of its volunteers. Looking at the crop of irish juniors coming through, that alone could be seen as a bargain too.

The youth tour and Ras na nOg are always going to be tight without major sponsors. The money cannot be made on entry fees as you are not going to charge youth 50-60euro to race their bikes. So that's a no brainier either.

Ras na mBan is the only stage race for women. Yes it hasn't received as much as the Junior Tour or other events, but it does have a title sponsor, similar to the Ras, but is not a UCI event so does not have the same overheads as the Ras. A quality event but the riders competing in it are very much domestic riders with limited possibility of moving in to the international stage. Not the organisations fault when CI took the strongest women riders on a track training camp the same week as their national tour.

With regards BMX, having been at their AGM last night, their motivation is simply impressive. The monies required there would be for building tracks but they are working hard lobbying councils with a view to having 9 tracks nationwide in the next 12 months. As it stands they are still settling in, but watch this space for youth participation and may not be long before they are competing for the listed grants also.

As for MTB , with the nature of their events, I can't imagine the overheads for events being as great as they are for Road events (through fuel costs alone not being required which is a major overhead for road organisers). The Off Road Commission have traditionally done their own thing and not fully engaged with Cycling Ireland as a governing body, so very easy to see Off Road Disciplines getting overlooked as a result.

Beasty

GMCI wrote: »

Ras na mBan is the only stage race for women. Yes it hasn't received as much as the Junior Tour or other events, but it does have a title sponsor, similar to the Ras, but is not a UCI event so does not have the same overheads as the Ras. A quality event but the riders competing in it are very much domestic riders with limited possibility of moving in to the international stage. Not the organisations fault when CI took the strongest women riders on a track training camp the same week as their national tour.

Just thinking aloud here (and not deliberately trying to find ways to spend more of CI's money!). Is there any thoughts of trying to make the Ras na mBan a UCI event, or is there a concern that may squeeze out too many of the county riders? Based on the proposed funding it's not going to be on the UCI list next year, but to allow it to grow more perhaps it is time to think about whether to try and elevate it, perhaps for 2016 (again assuming this is not already under consideration)

On the issue of the strong riders being away on a track training camp, I guess the current track calendar and our Olympic ambitions mean this is likely to recur with the current timing of the Ras na mBan

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Just thinking aloud here (and not deliberately trying to find ways to spend more of CI's money!). Is there any thoughts of trying to make the Ras na mBan a UCI event, or is there a concern that may squeeze out too many of the county riders? Based on the proposed funding it's not going to be on the UCI list next year, but to allow it to grow more perhaps it is time to think about whether to try and elevate it, perhaps for 2016 (again assuming this is not already under consideration)

On the issue of the strong riders being away on a track training camp, I guess the current track calendar and our Olympic ambitions mean this is likely to recur with the current timing of the Ras na mBan

If this race was put on the UCI calendar it would be a real dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation.There would be the squeeze you refer to and of course the added expense to meet UCI criteria as aready alluded to by GMC1 earlier.Also whilst the funding has been ringfenced for next yr theres no guarantee going forward.There would be a lot of people who would be of the feeling that the ras would be better off,not on the UCI calendar.
As for me we're very proud of ras na n'og and the part it plays..Accounts this yr showed exp of approx. e6.5k with a total income of about e5k.Would love to be able to do it independent of grant TBH.When we started off in 2007 the country was awash with money and we had a brilliant title sponsor who was delighted with the whole thing,but alas things changed soon after and its smaller sponsors we rely on now[bit like the JT]..If grant stopped we'd definitely still try to run it but it would suffer somewhere.

Beasty

wav1 wrote: »

Accounts this yr showed exp of approx. e6.5k with a total income of about e5k.

Does that €5k income include the €2k grant - ie did the club essentially have to subsidise it to the tune of €1.5k?

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Does that €5k income include the €2k grant - ie did the club essentially have to subsidise it to the tune of €1.5k?

Yes that's correct.We took in 3k in entries and sponsorship plus the grant.

wav1

Beasty wrote: »

Does that €5k income include the €2k grant - ie did the club essentially have to subsidise it to the tune of €1.5k?

Just trawled back through the accounts for ras na n'og this yr and I was slightly wrong...Cost was e6090 and total income [inc grant] was 5100..so a deficit of 990 which is ok

couerdelion

wav1 wrote: »

Just trawled back through the accounts for ras na n'og this yr and I was slightly wrong...Cost was e6090 and total income [inc grant] was 5100..so a deficit of 990 which is ok

It's good to see posts like this as there are a lot of people who think that race organisation is a license to print money.

onimpulse

couerdelion wrote: »

It's good to see posts like this as there are a lot of people who think that race organisation is a license to print money.

Maybe in Triathlon but in fairness the entry fees for cycle races are very reasonable. It's easy to see how it costs the hosting club.

I'm still in shock at how little Ras na mBan gets, there is no justification for that.

Beasty

onimpulse wrote: »

I'm still in shock at how little Ras na mBan gets, there is no justification for that.

That's difficult to evaluate when we (or certainly I) don't know how much they asked for. In addition this race and the Junior Tour gets support from the IVCA. It's possible that CI take into account other such sources (although probably not advertising revenue) when deciding how to allocate its own scarce resources.

Don't get me wrong - I'm all for providing support for these events. I know the Ras na mBan really struggled last year, but the exposure it received via the Eurosport coverage has allowed it to get more advertisers on board. They will need even more next year to make it even better

LeoD

couerdelion wrote: »

It's good to see posts like this as there are a lot of people who think that race organisation is a license to print money.

Would anyone here have a breakdown of the cost involved in race they organised? I would be interested to see how much or what % goes/went on prizes which I still think is complete lunacy for amateur races watched by one man and his dog.

wav1

LeoD wrote: »

Would anyone here have a breakdown of the cost involved in race they organised? I would be interested to see how much or what % goes/went on prizes which I still think is complete lunacy for amateur races watched by one man and his dog.

Cant speak for everyone here or generalise,but if you are talking atypical Sunday race where you would have 3 races plus sometimes a womans specific race the prize fund in total would be circa plus of e2k.When all the costs are added in to include medical cover,fuel,comms,photo finish,food,HQ,hire,etc etc etc probably total e4k ish