€2,500 budget - GTX 970 SLI. Help please!

Fian

I posted this in the computers and technology forum but I think it would probably fit better here.


My PC is about 4 years old but still trucking along and getting the job done. However I was mad into Elite for years on my BBC microcomputer as a kid and looking at the upcoming Elite dangerous I have decided it is time to upgrade. My existing PC will not run that at high quality - or in fact at all based on min requirements since i am still running windows vista on it.

I want to buy the oculus rift when it is released next year and the new maxwell geforce GPUs in SLI are apparently the optimal way to run that, with one card dedicated to each "eye".

So I am looking to buy a futureproof PC with two GTX 970 in SLI.

I presume I should go for an i7 CPU. Should i go for liquid cooling - is that needed? What is the benefit?

I guess 2TB hard drive and probably also a 256GB solid state.

16gb RAM? DDR3?

I will also want microsoft office.

do i need a new 4k monitor to do it justice? My existing is a four year old "ultrasharp" Dell monitor and tbh I have no idea how many pixels it has. I guess 1080p/720p (is that the right number?) My instinct is to continue with existing monitor and i can always upgrade in the future. It is the rift and elite that is driving this purchase not a burning desire to get into 4k gaming - i have no real interest in FPS games.

If it sounds like I know what I am talking about - I don't. I would be really grateful if people could point me in the direction of a good value PC building website and suggest specs. My budget is probably around €2,500 but not absolutely rigid and of course if i could save on that all the better.

I will also need a HOTAS - from what i can gather the Saitek x52 pro seems like the best buy - does anyone know whether there are Irish retailers selling that cheaply?

Thanks in advance for any help.

BloodBath

Nobody knows what the final specs of the Oculus will be although it's expected to be in line with their latest prototype which is supposed to be 1440p @ 100hz.

I'm not sure SLI is good for it though as dual GPU's usually increase latency which is a big no no for VR.

I personally wouldn't go 4k. 4GB of video memory is simply not enough for this resolution for future titles. Shadow of Mordors high res texture pack takes the game over 6GB of graphics memory for example. Also there are no IPS or PLS 4k panels that I know of. A 1440p 120hz capable monitor would be better imo.

2500 is a huge budget though. You should definitely be ditching your old monitor. A single 970 is overkill for 1080p. It can run most games at 1440p maxed out with 60fps+. I'd go for a single 970 and a 1440p monitor for now with a board and PSU capable of adding a second one in future.

The oculus could still be over a year away.

Fian

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not sure SLI is good for it though as dual GPU's usually increase latency which is a big no no for VR.


2500 is a huge budget though. You should definitely be ditching your old monitor. A single 970 is overkill for 1080p. It can run most games at 1440p maxed out with 60fps+. I'd go for a single 970 and a 1440p monitor for now with a board and PSU capable of adding a second one in future.

The oculus could still be over a year away.

Thanks,

that is actually a great suggestion - to go for a single one now with a board that I can add a second one into when the rift comes out. That may work out cheaper as presumably prices will fall over time.

On the other hand if prices aren't likely to fall over the next year or so maybe i am better off having the two of them from the off, since I am likely to buy a second one anyway when I get the rift. Though of course the waiting list for a rift could yet prove to be long.

I think (from what I have read) that SLI works well with the rift because it has two screens (one for each eye) and each video card can be dedicated to one screen so that you don't get "stuttering"/latency problems with it. They showcased the latest version of the rift using maxwell cards in SLI when they demonstrated it to journalists recently.

BloodBath

Well the problem is how do you take advantage of that much power in the mean time.

The only way would be a 120hz or 144hz 1440p monitor or a 4k monitor. I wouldn't touch 4k until the 8gb versions of the 970's and 980's come out and there are decent PLS or IPS versions. TN is just too washed out looking with crap viewing angles for my liking.

There aren't many/any commercially available 1440p 120hz monitors that I know of which means you would have to go for one of the imported Korean overclockable models. You can get a good 27" 1440p IPS panel for around €300 that will overclock to around 100hz.

There's a thread on the forum about them.

Blitz17

BloodBath wrote: »

Well the problem is how do you take advantage of that much power in the mean time.

The only way would be a 120hz or 144hz 1440p monitor or a 4k monitor. I wouldn't touch 4k until the 8gb versions of the 970's and 980's come out and there are decent PLS or IPS versions. TN is just too washed out looking with crap viewing angles for my liking.

There aren't many/any commercially available 1440p 120hz monitors that I know of which means you would have to go for one of the imported Korean overclockable models. You can get a good 27" 1440p IPS panel for around €300 that will overclock to around 100hz.

There's a thread on the forum about them.

The reference blower 290x's with 8GB are available soon in the UK. They are £40-50 cheaper than the cheapest 4GB GTX980. I believe they will be a great option for 4K as the 8GB GTX980s will cost alot upon first release.

All that taken into account I would still go 120hz/1440p for now.

BloodBath

Reference blower cooled 290x's are awful though. Far too hot. 90c with a single card. Forget about crossfiring them.

Actually 1 other alternative would be a triple 1080p monitor setup.

Fian

Thanks very much for teh opinions.

Can I ask two more questions please:

What is a "PSU"? Power supply unit?

Can you recommend a good website to purchase from? Dell.ie would be my first port of call but they are not selling any desktops with 970 cards in SLI, and I would want at least to make sure they could sell me two before I bought one to make sure that the motherboard would take a second one if I upgraded later.

I think I will probably stick with my existing monitor for now since the main reasons I want to upgrade are : (i) My existing PC won't run elite dangerous and (ii)I want my next PC to be able to adequately run oculus rift when it launches. I am not honestly too pushed about pushing up above 1080p on the monitor.

BloodBath

No bother.

Power supply yes.

Your best bet would be building it yourself. Hardwareversand.de is one of the cheapest places for parts.

Fian

Thanks.

I am not keen on building it myself from scratch, most I have done previously is to replace ram in PC.

I have a quote though for €2,333 for the specs as follows from pcspecialist.co.uk which is good enough for me I think:

Thanks for your help!

Case
COOLERMASTER HAF 912 PLUS MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-4790k (4.0GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® Z97-A: ATX, USB3.0, SATA 6GB/S, SLi, XFIRE
Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPER-X BEAST DUAL-DDR3 2133MHz X.M.P (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 970 - 1 DVI, 1 mHDMI, 3 mDP - 3D Vision Ready
2nd Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 970 - 1 DVI, 1 mHDMI, 3 mDP - 3D Vision Ready
1st Hard Disk
240GB KINGSTON V300 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (450MB/R, 450MB/W)
2nd Hard Disk
2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W CS SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET (€102)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H60 Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler (€76)
Sound Card
Creative Sound Blaster Zx 5.1 PCI-E Soundcard (€122)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 8.1 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (€102)
Office Software
Microsoft® Office Home & Student 2013 (1 License & Disc) (€109)

BloodBath

The price ain't great to be honest. They are probably taking a fee of around €300-400. I really wouldn't go for dual 970's now either. It's totally wasted horsepower. You will be getting around 200-300 frames per second at 1080p when your monitor can only display 60fps.

Also getting an expensive sound card like that is a waste of money unless you have €200+ studio quality headphones or speakers. You would be far better off putting that money into decent headphones first.

You could do pretty much the same spec including a 27" 2560x1440 monitor and a 512gb SSD for the same money.

With that budget you could even get this which would do those dual 970's justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnrxNfxRK_4

Where are you located? I'd build and set it up for you for a fraction of that. Hardwareversand also have a build and install option.

Fian

I am located in Dublin.

Would absolutely be interested in you building it for a lower price.

I will drop the sound card, tbh i just figured "well i may as well add a sound card" and picked one out of a drop down list with no further thought.

I will accept your advice with regard to a single gtx 970 now with a view to getting a second when i pick up an oculus, can you make sure the motherboard and power unit will accommodate the second one in due course?

If you are willing to post a spec + price which covers your costs and a reasonable margin for yourself please do so, or better yet pm me if you want to email it to me.

If you are not interested that is absolutely fine too, I am grateful for your help today and i realise you may not be interested in taking on that or you may not be based near dublin.

I am sure you understand as well that if the savings were not significant i might just go with a retailer where i would have a proper warranty for the sake of peace of mind, not because i distrust you but just that is worth a premium to me.

anyway up to you, either way i am grateful for your help.

BloodBath

If I were you I'd go for that nice LG monitor linked above with dual 970's if you really want to spend the full budget on something really high end. It's one of the few things that would justify running those cards in SLI.

You could get the build price down to around €1500 if you were going stick with the monitor you have and a single 970. Even down as low as €1200 if you went with an i5 and cut some corners in areas that won't affect gaming performance.

I'm not in Dublin so I probably won't be able to help you.

As far as warranties go all of the parts usually come with at least 3 years warranty already. You're paying a big premium for a second unnecessary warranty.

jaffusmax

Fian wrote: »

Thanks.

I am not keen on building it myself from scratch, most I have done previously is to replace ram in PC.

I have a quote though for €2,333 for the specs as follows from pcspecialist.co.uk which is good enough for me I think:

Thanks for your help!

Case
COOLERMASTER HAF 912 PLUS MID TOWER GAMING CASE
Processor (CPU)
Intel® Core™i7 Quad Core Processor i7-4790k (4.0GHz) 8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUS® Z97-A: ATX, USB3.0, SATA 6GB/S, SLi, XFIRE
Memory (RAM)
16GB KINGSTON HYPER-X BEAST DUAL-DDR3 2133MHz X.M.P (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 970 - 1 DVI, 1 mHDMI, 3 mDP - 3D Vision Ready
2nd Graphics Card
4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 970 - 1 DVI, 1 mHDMI, 3 mDP - 3D Vision Ready
1st Hard Disk
240GB KINGSTON V300 SSD, SATA 6 Gb (450MB/R, 450MB/W)
2nd Hard Disk
2TB WD CAVIAR BLACK WD2003FZEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader
INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply
CORSAIR 750W CS SERIES™ MODULAR 80 PLUS® GOLD, ULTRA QUIET (€102)
Processor Cooling
Corsair H60 Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler (€76)
Sound Card
Creative Sound Blaster Zx 5.1 PCI-E Soundcard (€122)
Wireless/Wired Networking
10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options
MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 4 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT PORTS
Power Cable
1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System
Genuine Windows 8.1 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (€102)
Office Software
Microsoft® Office Home & Student 2013 (1 License & Disc) (€109)

Operating System
Genuine Windows 8.1 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence (€102)
Office Software
Microsoft® Office Home & Student 2013 (1 License & Disc) (€109)

You could search reddit for alot cheaper ;)

I just literally upgraded from a GTX 770 to a EVGA 970 SC and can honestly say that will be enough for until you notice games needing a little extra power as I did with the 770. 2 x 970 in SLI is going to be a complete waste. Check out the EVGA 970 FTW edition if you want the fastest 970.

If just gaming in mind you could half the RAM and here is a MOBO I have been looking at http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00E5YV826/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

Just out of interest why the sound card? Will you be hooking up speakers? I have always found the MOBO audio more than adequate.

As for card readers a simple micro sd usb adapter is all I ever use.

jaffusmax

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Subtotal: 1.012,82 €
Shipping costs by UPS-Standard + 11,99 €


Total: 1.024,81 €


I have upgraded my 770 to a 970 for practically the same price since I bought all this and had changed the PSU to a 600W at time of purchase. Everything is under warranty and the OS can be got ;)
Only thing I need upgrade is my MOBO so I can overclock my CPU and a bigger watt PSU.

You could build a gaming beast and buy a PS4 with the change!

Ninjah Tigah

jaffusmax wrote: »

2 x 970 in SLI is going to be a complete waste.

Really? Why so?

jaffusmax

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

Really? Why so?

Every game I own I can Max out with one 970. By the time you need two a new card will be out or the 970 will be cheaper to pick up a second.
Do you think otherwise?

Ninjah Tigah

jaffusmax wrote: »

Every game I own I can Max out with one 970. Do you think otherwise?

I don't doubt it can max it. However, everyone has different needs. Saying that a dual 970's is a waste is a bit flawed. Can you pump out 100+ frames on max settings(MFAA maxed etc) at 1440p on a game like Shadow of mordor?

Not saying that you can't max games out but sometimes people want to be able to max games with ease with 100+ fps(which does make a difference if you're playing fps's and a single gtx 970 can't always do that, Witcher 3 may be an example of that when it comes out.

As I said, everyone has different needs and wants.

jaffusmax

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

I don't doubt it can max it. However, everyone has different needs. Saying that a dual 970's is a waste is a bit flawed. Can you pump out 100+ frames on max settings(MFAA maxed etc) at 1440p on a game like Shadow of mordor?

Not saying that you can't max games out but sometimes people want to be able to max games with ease with 100+ fps(which does make a difference if you're playing fps's and a single gtx 970 can't always do that, Witcher 3 may be an example of that when it comes out.

As I said, everyone has different needs and wants.

I agree if people in want 100fps and extra its up to them but then why not just go for 3 x gtx 980 sli. In my own opinion until a single 970 starts to buckle under the pressure hold off getting a second. To me doing sli so soon its like driving a f1 car with a speed limiter until games can push it

Ninjah Tigah

jaffusmax wrote: »

I agree if people in want 100fps and extra its up to them but then why not just go for 3 x gtx 980 sli. In my own opinion until a single 970 starts to buckle under the pressure hold off getting a second. To me its like driving a f1 car with a speed limiter until games can push it

Well, with that comparison then it's like doing 60kph on the m50. You're still okay doing that, perfectly fine but sometimes people prefer being able to exploit that extra availability of speed.

jaffusmax

Ninjah Tigah wrote: »

Well, with that comparison then it's like doing 60kph on the m50. You're still okay doing that, perfectly fine but sometimes people prefer being able to exploit that extra availability of speed.

To be honest I debated about getting a second 970 as my mate did. He scores on 3d mark in the top 99% and I in the top 92% but our game experience is exactly the same, although I slag him off as PC boy racer.
Basically if your boring yet practical like me one is enough.

Ninjah Tigah

jaffusmax wrote: »

To be honest I debated about getting a second 970 as my mate did. He scores on 3d mark in the top 99% and I in the top 92% but our game experience is exactly the same, although I slag him off as PC boy racer.
Basically if your boring yet practical like me one is enough.

Well not really boring, just not the same wants. A gtx 970 is an amazing card and anyone who has a fully functional card is happy as larry from what I've seen. :P