Marathon: Dublin V Paris

Blue Steel

Hi,

I know difficulty is a bit subjective but would you say Paris is easier than Dublin? (flatter?)

I am a runner but I am a beginner in Marathon. I attempted DCM yesterday.

ThePiedPiper

Paris is undoubtedly faster and flatter than Dublin. All things being equal, probably 1-2 minutes faster. However, there would be multiple other factors that could affect your time; weather, congestion, etc. I'd recommend it strongly as a marathon, the route is possibly the most attractive of any big city marathon I've done. Well done on yesterday

Blue Steel

ThePiedPiper wrote: »

Paris is undoubtedly faster and flatter than Dublin. All things being equal, probably 1-2 minutes faster. However, there would be multiple other factors that could affect your time; weather, congestion, etc. I'd recommend it strongly as a marathon, the route is possibly the most attractive of any big city marathon I've done. Well done on yesterday

Thanks.

One other thing to consider would be the trip there (potentially tiring).

No need to congratulate me, I attempted DCM but was unable to finish.

physiopad

Yes Paris is definitely much faster/flatter. As ThePiedPiper said its a great marathon - fabulous route through the city

Hard luck on yesterday - no shame in not finishing. You'll be back stronger. Rest well

clear thinking

I've done Paris twice. 0c on the start line in 2007 and about 24c at the finish in 2008, and a very dehydrated me hobbling over it. So the risk is that you get a hot spring day on the back of 6 months training in the winter. I think that is tough to do. No different to rotterdam. The upside is that you have a flat course with good support most of the way, certainly flatter than Dublin. Another downside is that, being french, the isotonic drinks and wine were only doled out at mile 25 so you need to have your gels and low-salt sachets at the ready for your 0,5,10,15 & 20 feeds.

Run and Jump

I did Paris three times while I was living there, Dublin 5 times now. Paris uses a lottery for entry now so it's harder to get in than when it was my local race. I'd agree with a lot of the above comments, plus:

The usual Paris course is flatter and faster than Dublin - in fact, the first mile is downhill, down the Champs-Elysees. The only climbs were short humps like coming up from underpasses and tunnels, and a short hill around mile 19 coming up from the river.

But I found the support is poor in Paris - it certainly doesn't compare to the great support all the way around Dublin. Only at Bastille and along the river (miles 15-19) are there crowds. The last five miles are through the near-empty Bois de Boulogne, and you'd get more support in the Phoenix Park for a 5K in winter.

And the weather is a major factor. Mid-April in Paris, the mornings can be cold but temperatures can get up to the mid-20s. I was a spectator at mile 19 in 2013 and saw loads of runners struggling because of being overdressed. At the other extreme, some runners overprepared for heat with camel-pack water pouches, which are totally unnecessary in a big city marathon.

If it's important for anyone, the Paris water stations also had food - oranges and banana segments.

RayCun

Run and Jump wrote: »

I did Paris three times while I was living there, Dublin 5 times now. Paris uses a lottery for entry now so it's harder to get in than when it was my local race.

all lottery or is there a GFA system too?

cianc

Just signed up for Paris, no lottery, but it's not cheap (€109). I'll make up the cost in post-race cheap wine.

Run and Jump

RayCun wrote: »

all lottery or is there a GFA system too?

No GFA system in Paris in previous years, nor next year as far as I can see from their website.

Another important point I've just remembered about Paris: if you wanted to be in the earlier waves (however they divide them for next year) you had to submit your previous result(s) when registering. Still seems to be the case.

Run and Jump

cianc wrote: »

Just signed up for Paris, no lottery, but it's not cheap (€109). I'll make up the cost in post-race cheap wine.

That's odd: there was definitely a lottery for the 2014 race. And in previous years when there wasn't a lottery it was sold out in a few days. Maybe it hasn't sold out this year!

from_atozinc

Blue Steel wrote: »

Hi,

I know difficulty is a bit subjective but would you say Paris is easier than Dublin? (flatter?)

I am a runner but I am a beginner in Marathon. I attempted DCM yesterday.

Just wondering, How far did you run?

EDIT : Ignore, read your other post and seen it

Blue Steel

Run and Jump wrote: »

That's odd: there was definitely a lottery for the 2014 race. And in previous years when there wasn't a lottery it was sold out in a few days. Maybe it hasn't sold out this year!

There was a lottery, I entered the draw, paid 75.



Now I am considering cancelling Paris and getting another go at DCM instead. I originally went for it because I got picked and had a preferential price, and I assumed at the time I would have had DCM completed (how presumptuous..)

Furthermore:
I'd have more time (not sure I'll be ready to start a marathon training in 1-2 months already)
The trip to Paris could be tiring.
Now I have a personal experience of what I'm up against on that particular race (dcm).

Run and Jump

Blue Steel wrote: »

There was a lottery, I entered the draw, paid 75.



Now I am considering cancelling Paris and getting another go at DCM instead. I originally went for it because I got picked and had a preferential price, and I assumed at the time I would have had DCM completed (how presumptuous..)

Furthermore:
I'd have more time (not sure I'll be ready to start a marathon training in 1-2 months already)
The trip to Paris could be tiring.
Now I have a personal experience of what I'm up against on that particular race (dcm).

Thanks for confirming re: lottery. I did one of my Paris marathons in the spring of 2012 after DCM 2011 - I rested up and took it easy in November, did some light running in early December and started my Paris training in the week after Christmas. That gave me 15 weeks or so, and in the end I had a great run in Paris. So if you're happy with winter training then it's certainly possible.

The logistics are an issue, though. Obviously I had no travel or accommodation to deal with. Also, the expo is absolutely mobbed on the Saturday (busier than Dublin!) so I'd always advise visiting runners to be in Paris early Friday or even on Thursday (the expo used to open on the Thursday evening). And April is peak tourist season in Paris - so now's the time to look up any college friends or old penpals!

Seanie_H

For Spring maras I would pick Rotterdam. Easy logistics, flat, well supported and fast. Not quite the scenery as Paris though but congestion and heavy start really annoyed me in Paris.

Spring runs I have done: Rotterdam, Paris and Connemara

rainbow kirby

The only spring marathon I have done is Barcelona - and really enjoyed it. Flights are cheap enough, race is well organised and there's loads to see. Would highly recommend. It's in March though so training would need to start in Nov/Dec.

The Davestator

Ive done both. Congestion in Paris meant I was a few mins behind plan almost from the start. Also, as others have said, the change in weather was mad. Freezing at the start and roasting by the finish. Lovely course and weekend away though. Like any marathon, weather can ruin your plans but I'd rather gamble on the weather in Paris!

Blue Steel

rainbow kirby wrote: »

The only spring marathon I have done is Barcelona - and really enjoyed it. Flights are cheap enough, race is well organised and there's loads to see. Would highly recommend. It's in March though so training would need to start in Nov/Dec.

I originally picked Paris because I entered the draw but I know there are other good ones. I heard Berlin was very flat.

Now after second thought, maybe it is indeed a good idea to run Paris anyway with the goal to finish it (no time constraint) but still train well obviously. This would bring back the confidence a notch just enough to do DCM15.

I would be afraid now to wait for a full year just to risk having another setback.

hillsiderunner

RayCun wrote: »

all lottery or is there a GFA system too?

There was a lottery for the cheaper bands of prices (first 5000 people or so @price 1, then next 5000 at whatever price etc) .... and then after that in September they released what's left of the more expensive places.

I missed DCM due to picking up a calf injury 4 weeks out (finally it is better now!) so I signed up for Paris a couple of weeks ago at E109.

Their site is a real pain, you can't even view possible prices until you've made an account with ASO and clicked most of the way through the purchase!

I think all places would sell out around January or latest early February.

Blue Steel

Novices plans span over 18 weeks (example Boards 2014 DCM Novices Plan and Hal Higdon 1&2)

Preparation for a 2015 Paris Marathon means training starts on Dec 9th

I would have liked to start training on 2/1/2015.

Pete Pfitzinger's training has a 12 weeks program. Would that be presumptuous of me to go down this road?

I like the simplicity of Hal Higdon though.

RayCun

It depends on what you mean by 'start training'
If you are running regularly, doing longer runs along the way, and your average week looks something like week 2 or 3 of the 12 week plan, then the 12 week plan is fine.
If you are only going to start running regularly when you start a plan, then the earlier you start the plan the better.

yaboya1

Blue Steel wrote: »

Novices plans span over 18 weeks (example Boards 2014 DCM Novices Plan and Hal Higdon 1&2)

Preparation for a 2015 Paris Marathon means training starts on Dec 9th

I would have liked to start training on 2/1/2015.

Pete Pfitzinger's training has a 12 weeks program. Would that be presumptuous of me to go down this road?

I like the simplicity of Hal Higdon though.

From a personal point of view, I think the P&D plan will improve you much more. I followed the 12 week 55 mile plan for Seville last Spring and knocked 26 minutes off my PB. I really don't think I'd have done this following a basic Hal Higdon plan. It wouldn't have the variation of paces like the P&D which are important imo.

You like the simplicity of the Hal Higdon, but that's the problem. They're too simple to make significant improvement. They haven't got the same range of training paces. The 12 week P&D plan will also suit you better time-wise, as you can start on the date you want to, rather than before Christmas. Just make sure you're up to 30-35 of easy miles before then, and you're comfortably able to complete a run the same length as the first week's LSR


Edit: I agree with Adrian below. Following a 12 week plan off no running is a bad idea. As he says, spending the next two months base building and starting the plan off a solid base is the way to go.

adrian522

What would be your plan between now and January if you were to do the 12 weeks plan?

I don't think it would be a good idea to do little to nothing in the next 2 months and then try and run a marathon off 12 weeks training.

However if you spent the next 2 months doing your own training, base building, club sessions etc and then started into a formal plan in January that may be OK.

As a farily new runner you may be better off following a 16/18 week program from early December though.

hillsiderunner

Blue Steel wrote: »

Novices plans span over 18 weeks (example Boards 2014 DCM Novices Plan and Hal Higdon 1&2)

Preparation for a 2015 Paris Marathon means training starts on Dec 9th

I would have liked to start training on 2/1/2015.

Pete Pfitzinger's training has a 12 weeks program. Would that be presumptuous of me to go down this road?

I like the simplicity of Hal Higdon though.

Agreeing with the replies so far, that a 12-week plan is only sensible if the month or two beforehand will have solid maintenance mileage.

I think the 18-week Boards plan (see start of the DCM novices thread) is a compromise between being an improvement on HH, but still not too heavy on the mileage front. I'm going to use a modified version of Boards for Paris but am going to start the plan two weeks early on 24th November, to give myself some room to get injured (and just be lazy sometimes ;-))

Blue Steel

adrian522 wrote: »

What would be your plan between now and January if you were to do the 12 weeks plan?

I don't think it would be a good idea to do little to nothing in the next 2 months and then try and run a marathon off 12 weeks training.

However if you spent the next 2 months doing your own training, base building, club sessions etc and then started into a formal plan in January that may be OK.

As a farily new runner you may be better off following a 16/18 week program from early December though.

The plan would be to do little on Novembre-week#1 (still recovering from 27th) and from then on build up mileage gradually to a healthy 30 mile base maybe. Given that I will have family commitments in Decembre. Then I will see how I feel starting the new year. Also, I think that mentally, it is an added bonus to not jump start too soon. I need these couple of months to recharge psychologically (from DCM and other stuff).

Yaboya layed out the pre-requisite for starting this particular plan so I can aim at this.

Please remember my goal isn't to beat a PB in Paris (I don't have one, remember that I am one of the DCM14 DNFs) but if the plan was to help me get a good time as well as crossing the finish line, then why not.

Thanks for your replies guys. Much appreciated.

Blue Steel

hillsiderunner wrote: »

Agreeing with the replies so far, that a 12-week plan is only sensible if the month or two beforehand will have solid maintenance mileage.

I think the 18-week Boards plan (see start of the DCM novices thread) is a compromise between being an improvement on HH, but still not too heavy on the mileage front. I'm going to use a modified version of Boards for Paris but am going to start the plan two weeks early on 24th November, to give myself some room to get injured (and just be lazy sometimes ;-))

I agree that 18 weeks is more sensible but it would be an overlap with christmas, family reunion, DCM recuperation. It sounds appealing but realistically, I don't see myself passing on the champagne on Christmas day I also have to catch up with family and friends as I have passed on numerous social events because of my last preperation. Having said that, it should still be serious(ish) base running ..

And yes, the boards plan looks good too.

adrian522

I get what you are saying, I couldn't jump straight into a marathon plan now, need some time off from all that at this stage.

However there should be no reason why you can't combine training and social occasions and having Champagne on Christmas Day.

I only really cut down on nights out or unhealthy eating, never really cut them out completely. I usually did my long run on Saturday leaving Saturday night free for whatever I wanted and Sunday for recovery (from both the long run and Saturday night).

Just because we are in marathon training doesn't mean all other aspects of our lives come to a complete stop.

Again, this is just how I approached it, others may have different/better opinions on the matter. Best of luck with Paris, it's a lovely city to run in and I'm sure the Marathon will be great. Should be nice running weather then too.

hillsiderunner

Chiming in on the eating-healthily issue ... I think there's nothing wrong with enjoying the champagne etc while trying to get the miles in anyway. You're only in the training phase, and it's not like any of us are so close to world records we need to be fine-tuning our nutrition! If we are running we have the right to eat all the Christmas pudding we want ;-)

I know from experience now that I will always feel a bit lazy/demotivated for a week or two ... not to mention the danger of injury, so for me it's a case of building a buffer. But your approach will work fine as long as you keep a decent amount of running going I think.

Blue Steel

Guys, I wasn't talking about counting the calories and drinking "a" glass of champagne. You knew that right?

thanks for the invaluable advice. Have a good weekend!