Format XP PC & dual boot with 7

Myles45

Hi All,
Just looking for a bit of advice before I proceed.
I have an HP Compaq 2GB RAM with XP pre installed which is approx 6 years old & getting very very slow & bogged down. I'd therefore like to format it to clear out all the old crud & then re install with the new Windows 7 Pro disc I have, but I'm not 100% that everything I need will work with 7 so would like to keep XP just in case initially & if everything is then ok on 7 I could get rid of XP. (I don't have disc for XP as it was preinstalled)

I know it is possible to just install 7 & then get virtual XP but the requirement for that is 3GB RAM, I only have 2 Actually 1.9. & it's 32bit by the way.

I've been putting this off for years now & really must do it now before I throw the PC out the window. It's my work & private PC & I cannot be without it & wanted to get it done over the long weekend so I'd be back up & running before Tuesday.

Can this be done without any worries? Is there anything I should be aware of?

I've done 7 Upgrade Advisor scan & most software I need looks ok. Outlook Express is no good though & I really don't want to use Outlook so any decent alternatives?

I'm sure there will be more issues, so any help & advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

bonzodog2

Why Virtual XP?
Is it a genuine Win7 disk with a licence? 32 or 64
Check specs for your machine, see if you can fit 4GB RAM. Crucial or Kingston should tell you. Win7 will run on 2GB though.
Check HP site to check for drivers
You could get a 2nd hard disk and install to that
Thunderbird is a decent mail client
Don't forget to back up any vital data, documents/bookmarks etc

Myles45

Hi Bonzodog2,

I just thought if I couldn't keep the original XP then the virtual one may help but obviously if I can keep the original it may be better / easier?

Yes it's a genuine 7 Pro disc 32bit with licence.

My PC is maxed at 2GB, Think it came with 1GB & I upgraded it after about a year.

I have 2 External HDrives that I have backed everything up onto as a routine.

The main problem is that it keeps running short of virtual memory & because my work is graphics based it struggles like hell. I really need a new PC with 8GB RAM ideally but just trying to stretch this old bugger out a bit longer if I can.

bonzodog2

Myles45 wrote: »

Hi Bonzodog2,

I just thought if I couldn't keep the original XP then the virtual one may help but obviously if I can keep the original it may be better / easier?

Yes it's a genuine 7 Pro disc 32bit with licence.

My PC is maxed at 2GB, Think it came with 1GB & I upgraded it after about a year.

I have 2 External HDrives that I have backed everything up onto as a routine.

The main problem is that it keeps running short of virtual memory & because my work is graphics based it struggles like hell. I really need a new PC with 8GB RAM ideally but just trying to stretch this old bugger out a bit longer if I can.

^^Sure? or just 2 full slots?

With Win7x32 you can't use more than 4GB

With Win7 you can also use a USB stick/SD card as extra Virtual memory if its fast enough, that would improve it.

Cut down on unnecessary services and auto startups, limit the other things you have open when using the memory-intensive stuff. Turn off Aero and other extras.

Myles45

Yep absolutely positive on Maxed RAM Don't forget it is about 6-7 years old!! That's getting on a bit in PC terms. System Properties attached.

Oh that's interesting about USB sticks, never knew that. That may be handy then. Would that still apply to my old USB ports as they would only be USB2 & not 3?

I try to limit stuff opening as far as poss but things like antivirus & Malwarebytes always ramp up the usage

bonzodog2

Yes it would work on USB2. That feature is called ReadyBoost, find on properties of the device.
It seems that machine can boot from USB also, so if space permits you could try Win7 on one of your externals.

edit: shame you didn't get the x64 Win7 !

Myles45

Excellent, another unknown fact. So how would you suggest I approach this now then?

Should I install 7 onto one of the externals first & if so how do I actually go about that?

Do I then just format the internal drive & reboot with the preinstalled XP & then re load all the software?

Would I then be able to open any software on the internal HD through 7 on an external?

bonzodog2

Space permitting, I'd move anything that's a backup of what on your internal Xp disc on to just one of your externals. Then with your empty other external plugged in and Xp internal disconnected, install Win7 from optical. Install Av, do updates, configure to your liking and do what I said at the end of post#4. Install your graphics app and see what performance is like. Power down, plug Xp HDD back in, power up. Hit F9 and you should be able to choose the USB to boot from, check it starts 7 again OK

Or you can leave XP disk in and choose the other one when its asking which disk to install on. But taking it out is safer, you won't change it

You *might* be able to run programs from your XP installation. Or not.

The readyboost thing is only for flash drives, a USB mechanical drive wouldn't be an improvement speedwise, although there might be something to be said for having the pagefile on a different drive

You have CDs for installed paid-for programs? Or noted serials

Whatever you do, make sure your data is safe. Remember keeping it on 1 external drive ISNT a backup. Get a cloud-based one as well

Myles45

Yep, that sounds like the best option to unplug XP internal, that way at least if 7 doesn't work for whatever reason it should be easy enough to revert back to XP.

I have all discs & serials etc for paid for programs so that's all good.

Only issue I can see now would be that antivirus etc presumably can only be installed on 1 HD as only licensed for single use so how will that work if running XP & 7 on separate drives?

I have wondered about cloud storage or backup but I still find the thought of having my private info out there somewhere a bit... well.. scary.. It may be irrational, but I just somehow don't trust it or feel safe & secure about it.

bonzodog2

You could put really private stuff in a password=protected RAR archive

Is it a paid AV? It would still be running on the same machine IMHO. Get a different free one for W7 if that worries you.

edit: also if your external is recent with its own power supply you could put it inside the case of the PC (having taken it out of its own case). If you're happy with that.

duckflyr

Install windows 7 on 21 to 31 gigs for your C: drive(depending on the size.) and for installing programs you like to.

Create the rest of the extra space for / drive for storing movies music 'windows backup if you like.'

Install windows 7 update and all. Download VMWare free player and install. Download an XP ISO that correlates to the key you have that came with the computer. XP home edition etc,. With VMware free player install the ISO to a folder you create on the drive, call it vmplarer and another folder within it called xp, whatever you like. Install XP into that xp folder. Use your key when it asks you to.

Really it does not get much easier than this. It takes a bit to understand. It will not make any noticeable performance change. When you install XP on VMWare Player it will recommend a windows size for XP, I would go around 6-7 gigs at most if you
do not plan on installing much.

Myles45

bonzodog2 wrote: »

You could put really private stuff in a password=protected RAR archive

Is it a paid AV? It would still be running on the same machine IMHO. Get a different free one for W7 if that worries you.

edit: also if your external is recent with its own power supply you could put it inside the case of the PC (having taken it out of its own case). If you're happy with that.

Yeah, I guess it's at least a secure back up if my system goes kaput.

Yes full paid AV.

I actually have 3 externals come to think of it.
1/ Maxtor One Touch 4Plus with own power supply 1TB
2/ Seagate Backup Plus 1TB USB only
3/ Media Tech 250GB USB only

So I guess I could put the Maxtor inside but it's pretty chunky. Would there really be any advantage to having it inside?

Myles45

duckflyr wrote: »

Install windows 7 on 21 to 31 gigs for your C: drive(depending on the size.) and for installing programs you like to.

Create the rest of the extra space for / drive for storing movies music 'windows backup if you like.'

Install windows 7 update and all. Download VMWare free player and install. Download an XP ISO that correlates to the key you have that came with the computer. XP home edition etc,. With VMware free player install the ISO to a folder you create on the drive, call it vmplarer and another folder within it called xp, whatever you like. Install XP into that xp folder. Use your key when it asks you to.

Really it does not get much easier than this. It takes a bit to understand. It will not make any noticeable performance change. When you install XP on VMWare Player it will recommend a windows size for XP, I would go around 6-7 gigs at most if you
do not plan on installing much.

Hi Duckflyr,
Thanks for that but I think the other idea sounds easier to be honest. Although i presume are you just suggesting to split the HDD into separate partitions?
Why would I need to download XP ISO when I already have it preinstalled?

bonzodog2

Myles45 wrote: »

Yeah, I guess it's at least a secure back up if my system goes kaput.

Yes full paid AV.

I actually have 3 externals come to think of it.
1/ Maxtor One Touch 4Plus with own power supply 1TB
2/ Seagate Backup Plus 1TB USB only
3/ Media Tech 250GB USB only

So I guess I could put the Maxtor inside but it's pretty chunky. Would there really be any advantage to having it inside?

Nothing for performance, just maybe you'd like the OS disk inside the box. Maybe the Xp disk too if enough SATA power cables and mobo data sockets.

Myles45 wrote: »

Hi Duckflyr,
Thanks for that but I think the other idea sounds easier to be honest. Although i presume are you just suggesting to split the HDD into separate partitions?
Why would I need to download XP ISO when I already have it preinstalled?

There aren't any legal ones :rolleyes:

duckflyr

Myles45 wrote: »

Hi Duckflyr,
Thanks for that but I think the other idea sounds easier to be honest. Although i presume are you just suggesting to split the HDD into separate partitions?
Why would I need to download XP ISO when I already have it preinstalled?

Generally performance goes down after installing reinstalling programs, leftovers from programs that are not needed or used. A reinstall can make all the difference.

Dual booting is OK but running an iso xp within 7 is far far easier to work with in the end. You can download a clean xp iso pretty much everywhere. Or if you have your own install cd. Or for that matter you can burn the iso to cd for installing however you like, dual boot or otherwise.
-
As for splitting the partitions regardless of dual booting or not, the extra space you can keep all your extra data on, and if windows becomes corrupt, the data on the split partition would remain intact.

So you can reinstall windows and the data will almost certainly still there.

duckflyr

bonzodog2 wrote: »

There aren't any legal ones :rolleyes:

For what it is worth if it is not altered in any non-legal way and a person has
their own key they are allowed to use any install medium as long as they
own a key.

If a neighbor has an XP install cd, if you have a key you can install
winxp and use your key and it is very much legal. Basically you pay
for the key more-so than the operating system, that in turn
pays to legally use and continue to use the software.


For example, official-windows-7-sp1-iso-from-digital-river/
Windows 7 is free to evaluate for 30 days. The you can
buy a key from Microsoft. These ISOs are legit from
Microsoft.


Windows 7 Ultimate SP1-U ISO

English x86: X17-59463.iso
English x64: X17-59465.iso

French x86: X17-59477.iso
French x64: X17-59479.iso

Spanish x86: X17-58877.iso
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Windows 7 Professional SP1-U ISO

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German x86: X17-59886.iso
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French x86: X17-59195.iso
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Korea x86: X17-59299.iso
Korea x64: X17-59300.iso

Windows 7 Professional N SP1-U ISO (Note: N editions come without media components)

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English x64: X17-59337.iso

German x86: X17-59323.iso
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Portuguese x86: X17-59395.iso
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Swedish x86: X17-59418.iso
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Norwegian x86: X17-59380.iso
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Finnish x86: X17-59344.iso
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Dutch x86: X17-59384.iso
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Danish x86: X17-59318.iso
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Windows 7 Home Premium SP1-U ISO

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English x64: X17-58997.iso

Spanish x86: X17-58857.iso
Spanish x64: X17-58859.iso

French x86: X17-59007.iso
French x64: X17-59009.iso

Myles45

duckflyr wrote: »

Generally performance goes down after installing reinstalling programs, leftovers from programs that are not needed or used. A reinstall can make all the difference.

Dual booting is OK but running an iso xp within 7 is far far easier to work with in the end. You can download a clean xp iso pretty much everywhere. Or if you have your own install cd. Or for that matter you can burn the iso to cd for installing however you like, dual boot or otherwise.
-
As for splitting the partitions regardless of dual booting or not, the extra space you can keep all your extra data on, and if windows becomes corrupt, the data on the split partition would remain intact.

So you can reinstall windows and the data will almost certainly still there.

Would you say this would be better than just installing 7 & then downloading the vitual XP that's available for 7?

BTW my HDD is only 150GB will that be an issue?

duckflyr

Yes. Simply put in your 7 DVD, start installing, delete all partitions, since you have backed up what you would like to keep there is nothing really that could go wrong.

Create a C: drive around 25 gigs, (it will by default create a 100 MB partition) then create a drive with the rest of the space. Should default to . Feel free to format these and continue. If you get the size wrong you can delete partitions and try again. If you find that after installing it isn't right, try again. (I have a 31 gig partition for win 7, and use roughly about 17 gigs at any given time)

After installing 7 and updating, download VMWare player.

With that you can run and install XP, I would call that about 12 gigs. You can install that to your d: drive. Locate the xp iso or xp cd if you have one from VMWare Player, It will ask where you want to install it to. 'Should be' navigate to from the player, create a folder called VM, within that create a
folder called win, create a folder within win, call XP install to that.

It will initially ask for a key to install XP. You can use a 'generic key' if you just want to get it installed for now.

150 gigs if more than fine. My emphasis on the separate partition and a VM (virtual machine) is XP is not supported, so in a VM XP if it happened to get a virus it will not affect the 'host' win 7 system. And you can simply delete the XP from the VM at any time. ALso it the win 7 goes down the or extra space will be intact. So you can reinstall windows without losing data if you 'just' install it back to it's original C: drive space.

Myles45

duckflyr wrote: »

Yes. Simply put in your 7 DVD, start installing, delete all partitions, since you have backed up what you would like to keep there is nothing really that could go wrong.

Create a C: drive around 25 gigs, (it will by default create a 100 MB partition) then create a drive with the rest of the space. Should default to . Feel free to format these and continue. If you get the size wrong you can delete partitions and try again. If you find that after installing it isn't right, try again. (I have a 31 gig partition for win 7, and use roughly about 17 gigs at any given time)

After installing 7 and updating, download VMWare player.

With that you can run and install XP, I would call that about 12 gigs. You can install that to your d: drive. Locate the xp iso or xp cd if you have one from VMWare Player, It will ask where you want to install it to. 'Should be' navigate to from the player, create a folder called VM, within that create a
folder called win, create a folder within win, call XP install to that.

It will initially ask for a key to install XP. You can use a 'generic key' if you just want to get it installed for now.

150 gigs if more than fine. My emphasis on the separate partition and a VM (virtual machine) is XP is not supported, so in a VM XP if it happened to get a virus it will not affect the 'host' win 7 system. And you can simply delete the XP from the VM at any time. ALso it the win 7 goes down the or extra space will be intact. So you can reinstall windows without losing data if you 'just' install it back to it's original C: drive space.

Well, I have to say that certainly sounds fairly straight forward.
I presume that would mean I would still be able to run Outlook Express & any other software that may not be compatible with 7 from the XP folder? But everything that is compatible from the new C: drive. Is it possible then to pass things from one to the other if required & can they be running simultaneously?

duckflyr

wrote:

Yes, basically you would be running windows XP within windows 7, at the same time. You can move files from win 7 to the xp virtual machine if you like. You can run anything xp completable in the xp vm. In all the VM takes very little resources. Some say, I believe this very much, that is runs maybe even faster.

If you like when you shut down the xp vm, you can boot it back right to where you left off, like the programs you were running will be right there. Takes a few mere moments to boot back to where you were, programs running and all.

It will, (or should) have immediate internet access when you first install and boot xp up.

Myles45

Just to quickly resurrect this thread. (I still haven't quite got round to doing this yet, but should do over the weekend hopefully now!!)
I was just thinking about the internal HD & being that it is relatively small (150GB) & now obviously pretty old & very well used. Would it be practical/possible to replace it with a new one perhaps a little bigger, & if so what should I look for?
I presume certain things would have to match the original?
Or would I be totally wasting my time?

I don't have much knowledge of this sort of thing but am confident enough to open up the tower & have a little fiddle having added memory & changed graphic cards etc before.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that I could perhaps use one of my externals but to be honest the Maxtor 1TB I have, which would obviously be bigger, itself needs replacing as I think it's having problems. I've never really been happy with it.

Recoil12

If you're changing the hard drive an SSD is definietly the way to go.An SSD can give a performance boost comparable to adding more RAM.A 250GB from Samsung or Crucial would be my recommendation,stay away from Kinsgton as they've had a few bad batches over the past few months.
After swapping out your old HD with the SSD,go ahead and install Windows 7 and use that as your main boot drive.
As for XP,you can purchase an external USB enclosure for your drive with XP on it.This should allow you to boot into XP over USB whenever you need to(you should also be able to view files on this drive when within Windows 7 and the drive is connected via USB,handy for documents,etc.)

SSD:http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=sr_nr_n_1?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=n%3A430505031%2Ck%3Assd&keywords=ssd&ie=UTF8&qid=1420204810&rnid=1642204031
USB enclosure:http://www.ebay.ie/itm/USB-3-0-Sata-2-5-inch-Hard-Disk-Drive-HDD-External-Enclosure-Case-Cable-Box-/191239749670?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item2c86c70026

Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong but I believe if you got his route you should only have to do one installation(Win7)and XP should boot from from the enclosure.

Myles45

Hi Recoil, That sounds good to me & I've actually downloaded an XP ISO that I can burn to disc & use my key with so I can do a clean install onto the external USB drive.
Just wondering which of all the SSDs on that page you would recommend? Is there much difference between them? Would the usage make any difference in choice? e.g. hi res graphics & design

Recoil12

There isn't a massive difference between the drives .Any of the brands would be massively faster than a HDD,the only reason to choose one brand over another is for quality sake.I would recommend the Samsung SSD as it offers good performance for the price,they range from 120GB to 1TB,250GB should be sufficient considering you are moving from 150GB. Usage shouldn't make a difference,but as with everything there are faster drives for a higher price but I think you'll find the linked SSD is quite enough.
And remember to backup your important files before doing a clean install.

Samsung SSD:http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00E3W19MO/ref=twister_B00FGMB7Y0?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

whizbang

The SSD is a nice idea, but dont get any big ideas on the speed. You (as an XP user upgrading to W7) will not see an iota of difference in speed. Reliability yes.

here is a cheap upgrade:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/AMD-Athlon-64-X2-6000-3-GHz-Dual-Core-ADX6000IAA6CZ-Processor-w-Grease-/221646749418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339b2cfeea

Regarding RAM , I would eat my hat if that system doesn't take 4Gb. See if you can borrow a 2Gb stick of DDR2 ram and try it. or bring the box to your local phone/PC hacker shop, and get them to check.

You would have quite a good machine after that.

Myles45

Hi Whizzbang, Now I am getting totally out of my knowledge zone with processors really. That certainly looks very cheap so I'm game to try if it would definitely match everything else e.g. do I need to start looking at new fans etc? I still think it may be worth while changing the hard drive though due to its age.

How easy is it to change the processor? could there be any issues with the motherboard?

I actually got the local PC guy to come & look at my system to assess if I could upgrade it or if I'd be better buying new & he too confirmed that it was maxed at 2GB RAM & that for what I'm using it for I could ideally do with a new machine with Quad core & 8GB RAM!!! All very nice but unfortunately I can't run to that expense right now but I really need to do something with this one as it's driving me nuts it's got so damn slow.
See attached screenshot showing max memory

whizbang

Just a dreamer really..! I probably wouldn't buy it either.

But, most mainstream suppliers just published what options they supplied, not what was possible. Quite often the option wasn't even made at the time.

Do a clean XP install on a new disk, and see if you can get the number of running processes to less than 13.
That will do nicely!

I'm tickled nobody has been on screaming about XP End of Support;)

Myles45

This has all got me thinking now... how much can I actually do to this tower to improve it at a relatively low cost compared to buying new?

I was just looking for info on changing the processor & came across this article on overclocking, would this also be worth a try or am I going to end up frying the whole thing? http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/desktop-pc/3295488/how-to-overclock-a-desktop-pc/

If it's possible to change the processor, could it be changed to quad core?

Would it be worth changing the motherboard? I'm guessing this may be getting on the expensive side though? but saw somewhere that it may be a good idea to change from USB2 & SATA2 to 3

I do need to be somewhat careful as this computer is my whole business so I can't afford to be without it.

Myles45

whizbang wrote: »

Just a dreamer really..! I probably wouldn't buy it either.

But, most mainstream suppliers just published what options they supplied, not what was possible. Quite often the option wasn't even made at the time.

Do a clean XP install on a new disk, and see if you can get the number of running processes to less than 13.
That will do nicely!

I'm tickled nobody has been on screaming about XP End of Support;)

Running processes less than 13!!!! Jeez maybe that's where my problem lies, I currently have 76!!!:eek: I'm guessing that's bad:o

whizbang

Motherboard is always difficult, more a case of passion overriding wallet..
Processors are limited by chipset. run CPU-Z or something similar, and spend an hour on google..
Processors do Millions of instructions per second, depending on clock speed, but they also do other stuff, like waiting for RAM, Hard disk, etc so, clock speed isn't everything.
Quad cores aren't either, as the its the software that decides which core is used for what. An awful lot of software just doesn't use multiple cores.

I tend to think more in terms of big picture. the purists can worry about doubling the random read speed, but that's such a small part of the whole system.
If you prefer Windows media player over itunes, then any amount of money is so wasted, you might as well have burned it.

I am messing with Server 2008 on a similar processor, and am surprised at how fast it can be.

Myles45

So basically, do you think that processor would work on my machine & would it make much difference? I mean it virtually costs nothing & with the change of drive to SSD would that be pretty much all I'd need to do?

Myles45

OK next problem!

I've just formatted my newest external HD (Seagate backup Plus 1TB) with a view to doing a full system backup along with adding some recovery points.

See attachment showing how I partitioned it. I then proceeded to (using the HP backup & recovery manager) backup entire drive, which it successfully did onto partition K: taking about 83GB.

I then wanted to create a recovery point. I tried several options but all ended after a considerable time with the HP manager telling me that there was not enough memory on the drives I was trying to put it on!!! Initially I tried it on "local Drive" & then on "another hard disk" trying partitions I, J, & K but each time with the same results.

Any idea what is happening here?

Windows is creating its own restore points as usual ok, but I gather that they are not as thorough as the HP ones?

It's another one of these things that it seems the deeper you look into it, the more complex it gets & therefore the more confusing. & everyone seems to have different opinions of what is the best way to create backups.

I really just wanted to backup everything thoroughly onto the Seagate (as it's the newest & presumably as such, the most reliable) before formatting the Maxtor (which I know fails disk check) & then the internal, before performing clean installs of OS etc.