Adelaide

FIVE2_THREE · 25-10-2014 7:56am #1

I'd imagine it's not a good morning for you Coolmore/AOB haters. Adelaide just became the first overseas winner of the Cox Plate

I said · 25-10-2014 8:56am

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I'd imagine it's not a good morning for you Coolmore/AOB haters. Adelaide just became the first overseas winner of the Cox Plate

Great ride by Moore

jimjamcos · 25-10-2014 9:53am

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I'd imagine it's not a good morning for you Coolmore/AOB haters. Adelaide just became the first overseas winner of the Cox Plate

Lol

tryfix · 25-10-2014 9:58am

Meh. A crap race, big event down under but the equivalent of a well contested Gp3 European race.

It shows how crap the race was that Side Glance finished within 1/2l or so. Wouldn't knock Adelaide for that, he's a 12f horse who started terribly and made sustained progress against moderate opposition. Moore deserves credit for nothing but pushing the horse around the track. The horse took the longest route and won, big whoop for Moore who couldn't get him into a position to save ground on the inside. A similar ride to the one Joseph gave Australia in Leopardstown which destroyed the horse's reputation.

Gringo180 · 25-10-2014 10:57am

Horse did well to win from there, how come he is not wearing the coolmore colours?

Gregk961 · 25-10-2014 12:27pm

Easy to say its a great ride when it wins. Decent horse , should be winning against that quality of opposition anyway

FIVE2_THREE · 25-10-2014 2:06pm

Gringo180 wrote: »

Horse did well to win from there, how come he is not wearing the coolmore colours?

He's in the Tom Magnier Colors. Red sash over Coolmore blue. Tom runs Coolmore in Australasia

diomed · 25-10-2014 7:35pm

They finished in a heap ... of moderate horses.
Meanwhile, in Ireland, an O'Brien 1/6 favourite is beaten.

Harry Angstrom · 28-10-2014 3:17am

Side Glance is more exposed than the Cliffs of Moher. Beating him by half a length means nothing. It looks like an Arazi-type performance, but that horse was fairly useless as well.

Peintre Celebre · 28-10-2014 11:09am

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Side Glance is more exposed than the Cliffs of Moher. Beating him by half a length means nothing. It looks like an Arazi-type performance, but that horse was fairly useless as well.

Not sure how a horse that earned a 135 timeform rating as a two year old could be fairly useless

I think that is the highest rating given to a 2 year old ever

longshotvalue · 28-10-2014 2:21pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Side Glance is more exposed than the Cliffs of Moher. Beating him by half a length means nothing. It looks like an Arazi-type performance, but that horse was fairly useless as well.

Didnt he beat Bertrando by a mile and then that horse went on to a very high class animal..

Harry Angstrom · 28-10-2014 5:04pm

Arazi ran five times after winning the Breeders Cup Juvenile and was beaten in four of those races, winning only a paltry Group 2.

Peintre Celebre · 28-10-2014 5:23pm

So he didn't train on. There is a big difference

And I was wrong, Celtic Swing the highest TF rated 2 year old at 138. 135 still ridiculously high for a 2 year old. That would put him a full 15 pounds better than Tiggy Wiggy. Sea the Stars rated 140 to put into perspective after his 3 year old career

Gringo180 · 28-10-2014 5:26pm

Hopefully they don't retire this horse I think he would win a few group ones next year.

Harry Angstrom · 28-10-2014 6:05pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

So he didn't train on. There is a big difference

And I was wrong, Celtic Swing the highest TF rated 2 year old at 138. 135 still ridiculously high for a 2 year old. That would put him a full 15 pounds better than Tiggy Wiggy. Sea the Stars rated 140 to put into perspective after his 3 year old career

Just goes to show that the ratings can't always be trusted. A 138 rating for Celtic Swing proves this. An absolute over-estimation of that horse's ability.

Peintre Celebre · 28-10-2014 6:20pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Just goes to show that the ratings can't always be trusted. A 138 rating for Celtic Swing proves this. An absolute over-estimation of that horse's ability.

You are missing a fundamental point: AS A 2 YEAR OLD

Anyway this has nothing to do with Adelaide. Not sure how it could be an arazi performance, he hardly won the race by ten lengths. Adelaide is a genuine and tough horse. Probably not good enough for a domestic group 1 over ten furlongs but a solid gr.2 horse. Value for more than the margin he won on Saturday since he had to travel so wide but I'd be surprised if he were to become a superstar but he is like able

diomed · 28-10-2014 6:39pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Side Glance is more exposed than the Cliffs of Moher.

I laughed.

Harry Angstrom · 28-10-2014 7:03pm

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

You are missing a fundamental point: AS A 2 YEAR OLD

Celtic Swing achieved that rating off the back of a wide margin victory in the Racing Post Trophy on heavy ground. It was sheer lunacy on TF's part to give him such a high rating. I'm not missing the fundamental point.

Peintre Celebre · 28-10-2014 7:14pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Celtic Swing achieved that rating off the back of a wide margin victory in the Racing Post Trophy on heavy ground. It was sheer lunacy on TF's part to give him such a high rating. I'm not missing the fundamental point.

Ignore Celtic Swing totally. You compared Adelaide's performance to Arazi's. Not even remotely close

Harry Angstrom · 29-10-2014 12:00am

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Ignore Celtic Swing totally. You compared Adelaide's performance to Arazi's. Not even remotely close

I compared the style of his winning, ie coming from last to first and picking off most of the field down the back straight, and the way that some of the racing media have gone overboard about it - in the same manner they went overboard about Arazi.

Gringo180 · 29-10-2014 4:39pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I compared the style of his winning, ie coming from last to first and picking off most of the field down the back straight, and the way that some of the racing media have gone overboard about it - in the same manner they went overboard about Arazi.

Was hard not to go over board about that win in the the breeders cup juvenile, visually it was sensational to watch, he made them horses look like point to pointers. He was a freak as a 2 year old just didn't develop from 2 to 3.

Peintre Celebre · 29-10-2014 8:50pm

Arazi ran by horses on the bridle as if they were standing still and put daylight between them. Just how that run in anyway resembles Arazi's I'm not quite sure. Never mind mentioning him being useless

Harry Angstrom · 30-10-2014 3:18am

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Arazi ran by horses on the bridle as if they were standing still and put daylight between them. Just how that run in anyway resembles Arazi's I'm not quite sure. Never mind mentioning him being useless

Like it or not, Arazi was a useless 3yo. There are some who seem to think that Adelaide is some kind of wonder horse on the strength of his last-to-first Cox Plate win. Fact is, he isn't. That's my point. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to read more into my first post, that's your prerogative, but I'm kinda done with this.

Peintre Celebre · 30-10-2014 2:18pm

I haven't come across anyone who seem to think he's a wonder horse, no online reports suggest it either any links? So you finally clarify that he was a poor three year old, not what your original comment said.

Only things I've seen is that it was a good performance, brilliant training performances. Haven't once seen the word outstanding, or anything over the top regarding the run. Not sure you have either, but yeah I'm well beyond it, not sure why I even bothered in the first place.

tryfix · 31-10-2014 7:55pm

Philistines, Arazi was a 2yo Pegasus, poetry in motion. Thrashing future Gp1 winners on both sides of the Atlantic like St Jovite, Bertrando and Seattle Rhyme like they were nobodies. And correction even though he'd problems as a 3yo he won 2 races as a 3yo, the first by 5l the second by 4l with trips to the Kentucky Derby and Ascot sandwiched in between.

Fk*&^&*?NJ$%^&*:D.

FIVE2_THREE · 01-11-2014 4:33pm

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Like it or not, Arazi was a useless 3yo. There are some who seem to think that Adelaide is some kind of wonder horse on the strength of his last-to-first Cox Plate win. Fact is, he isn't. That's my point. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to read more into my first post, that's your prerogative, but I'm kinda done with this.

Most European horses who happen to Perform well on dirt at 2 normally recede at 3. Look at Jo'Burg who was a better 2yo than Arazi, Jo'Burg won G1 races in Ireland,France,England and the U.S. never has that feat been accomplished but at 3 he flattened out just like Arazi.The Problem is at 3 years old you can't expect a horse to carry it's track 3,000 miles across the Atlantic. what happens is. they win a G1 on Dirt then come back to Europe where there are no tracks or Gallops to Prep on that can simulate what they will face in Kentucky. which is a heavy deep tiring track. Not even Ballydoyle has a dirt track/Gallop to prepare on.they have an All Weather Gallop but that's not dirt.

Adelaide

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