Problem after castrating

Feckthis

I have a weanling that I castrated yesterday. This evening when checking them I found him, ears dropped and away in the corner. So I gave him a shot of oxycomplex. I think he might not have passed urine. What should I do?

greysides

Call vet in morning. If what you suspect is true there's an operation that can be done but you would need to talk it through.
Blackleg is another possible complication, if that's the case you won't need to call the vet in the morning.

mikeoh

U need a vet..........any chance u squeezed uretha not cord

huey1975

Give him a big shot of corticosteroids if he is very swollen along his rod. If he is passing a drop of urine at all he should be ok, otherwise you might be looking at a urethrostomy

greysides

A shot of steroids would increase the chances of post-surgery wound infection if it's needed.

_Brian

Definitely VET,

Feckthis

Thanks folks I will see how he is in the morning.

huey1975

greysides wrote: »

A shot of steroids would increase the chances of post-surgery wound infection if it's needed.

How would a shot of steroids increase the likelihood of infection post op, it's not as if you are going to say " well that was a lovely sterile field so we won't both with antibiotics"

severeoversteer

vet vet vet vet vet vet vet vet !!!!

if in doubt get the vet, id rather pay the vet than the knacker anyday

greysides

huey1975 wrote: »

How would a shot of steroids increase the likelihood of infection post op, it's not as if you are going to say " well that was a lovely sterile field so we won't both with antibiotics"

They suppress the animals immune system. It's a matter of degree.

In an extreme case.... calf with no colostrum, it has been found that it's virtually impossible to cure a calf with septicaemia.....in other words, despite antibiotics the animal still needs its immune system.

huey1975

greysides wrote: »

They suppress the animals immune system. It's a matter of degree.

In an extreme case.... calf with no colostrum, it has been found that it's virtually impossible to cure a calf with septicaemia.....in other words, despite antibiotics the animal still needs its immune system.

It is a matter of degree but a once off dose is unlikely to cause a huge degree of immunosuppression, and the benefits of a shot to reduce swelling would be well justified in this case

greysides

huey1975 wrote: »

Give him a big shot of corticosteroids if he is very swollen along his rod. If he is passing a drop of urine at all he should be ok, otherwise you might be looking at a urethrostomy

huey1975 wrote: »

It is a matter of degree but a once off dose is unlikely to cause a huge degree of immunosuppression, and the benefits of a shot to reduce swelling would be well justified in this case

The generally available corticosteroids are ~3 day shots so they aren't going to disappear out of the system too quick. Given that the animal will need to be seen in the morning unless it's improved, I'd be holding off using them. As well as immunosuppression they also delay healing. If there was a dire need for anti-inflammatories tonight then the vet could be called tonight. There's always the option of using non-steroidal anti-inflammatories which wouldn't have the immunosuppression and delayed healing side-effects and that's what's in the Oxycomplex these days.

We're still not sure what's going on as the OP is presuming that that is what might have happened. He could have a bad dose of pneumonia. Steroidal anti-inflammatories would not be the best option in that case.

orm0nd

this thread started about 2 hours ago , if it was my animal the vet would have been here & possibly gone by now

why wait until morning? (just airing my views not criticizing any body)

@ OP hope all goes well

Base price

Out of interest what age is he.

greysides

orm0nd wrote: »

this thread started about 2 hours ago , if it was my animal the vet would have been here & possibly gone by now

why wait until morning? (just airing my views not criticizing any body)

@ OP hope all goes well

Fair point. From my point of view, to see if antibiotics have had any effect and purely because of the time of the day. If an operation were needed it would be best done in day-light.

tanko

Would it be commonplace for farmers to squeeze calves themselves?

Genghis Cant

tanko wrote: »

Would it be commonplace for farmers to squeeze calves themselves?

I'd say so. I'd think more weanlings are done by farmers than vets.

Parishlad

How's your animal this morning OP? Has the vet been out?

_Brian

tanko wrote: »

Would it be commonplace for farmers to squeeze calves themselves?

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I'd say so. I'd think more weanlings are done by farmers than vets.

Our vet recommends a lad up the road from us for Squeezing and skulling, he's a top lad at it and Vet provides any medicines required..

Feckthis

Parishlad wrote: »

How's your animal this morning OP? Has the vet been out?

He was much the same this morning. He ate meal and went back over into his corner. He seems to be in pain. will ring Vet when I get home from work this evening.

severeoversteer

Feckthis wrote: »

He was much the same this morning. He ate meal and went back over into his corner. He seems to be in pain. will ring Vet when I get home from work this evening.

so you knew about it yesterday and your putting off the vet until this evening?

ring the vet now and get him out, give the vet directions and he'll look himself

deise08

Please tell me you rang the vet.
You took it on you to do this to him, you have a duty of care to him.

orm0nd

greysides wrote: »

Fair point. From my point of view, to see if antibiotics have had any effect and purely because of the time of the day. If an operation were needed it would be best done in day-light.

I would have thought if there was a blockage delaying the operation would have greatly increased the risk of kidney and bladder failure

you comments about time of day and daylight are comical to say the least when the beast is in obvious discomfort and needs pain relief asap

greysides

At 9.30 PM with an injection just administered, if it hasn't been seen fit to call the vet, it's unlikely it's going to happen after that. I suggested calling the vet the next morning.

As regards daylight................. it's going to be a tricky job on a small animal.

whelan2

Sorry for being blunt but op if you where in the same pain as your animal I assume you wouldn't be long in getting seen to

_Brian

Also now it's going to be a weekend callout on a bank holiday rater than a Friday callout. (Cavan man thinking)

I think we all push it out a bit hoping an animal will pick up. But if it's not passing water and obviously out of sorts then the clock is ticking and will be easily lost at this stage.

Get the vet out. Sooner rather than later.

Feckthis

whelan2 wrote: »

Sorry for being blunt but op if you where in the same pain as your animal I assume you wouldn't be long in getting seen to

Jesus will you's all calm down!! I am not on this all day everyday.. The animal has picked up and looking well again and I saved myself the cost of getting a VET out.! I realise all your concerns, but Jesus I thought this was a forum for farmers, not animal rights activists!

**** happens!!
I think I made the right judgement in the end!!

Thanks to the other people for their advise! Much appreciated.

spuddey

Feckthis wrote: »

Jesus will you's all calm down!! I am not on this all day everyday.. The animal has picked up and looking well again and I saved myself the cost of getting a VET out.! I realise all your concerns, but Jesus I thought this was a forum for farmers, not animal rights activists!

**** happens!!
I think I made the right judgement in the end!!

Thanks to the other people for their advise! Much appreciated.

+1++1

LostCovey

Dear Feck,

You are not having a great day at the office, by all appearances. Lets re-cap here:

• You took on a DIY castration, without being totally sure of what you were doing.
  
• It sounds like you made a little bit of a mess of it, but you do have the excuse that you don't know what you're at - its clearly not your fault.
• You declined to tell us what age it was, but I am going to take a wild guess that it was more than six months old
  
• You caused an animal significant needless suffering, based on your own description.
  
• You asked a crowd of strangers on the internet for advice, some of whom know a bit, and some of whom are a bit bonkers.
  
• You ignored all their advice, and apparently didn't check back.
  
• You accused those who were a bit concerned of being "animal rights activists".
  
• The animal you sloppily mutilated didn't die, so that vindicates your entire course of (in)action.
  
• And you saved the cost of a veterinary call-out to a sick animal.

Don't mind anyone else Feck, to me you are a hero.

You did indeed make a very wise set of decisions.

You are the future of farming in Ireland, which makes some of us shudder a bit.

The ironic part of this is that I will probably get into trouble for this summary, but nobody will say a word to you for the 2-day car-crash you described.

Pour yourself a large one, Feck, and enjoy the extra hour in the scratcher. it's people like you that keeps those real "animal rights activists" in business.

LC

Muckit

Welcome back! !

sea12

Muckit wrote: »

Welcome back! !

Welcome back from oz LC. See you didn't mellow too much out there !!
although I agree with your comments above.

_Brian

LC??
Now who saw that coming..

You still the other side d the world, or did I imagine that's where you were heading?

what a comeback too.

Genghis Cant

_Brian wrote: »

LC??
Now who saw that coming..

You still the other side d the world, or did I imagine that's where you were heading?

what a comeback too.

If I didn't see the username I'd have guessed LC.
Welcome back. It could get interesting!

Toplink

So whats the DIY guide to castration?

I took over from Dad this year as he has been unwell. I did my first 6 today under his guidance.

Ranging in age from 7 months to 11 months. All weaned in past month. The older lad should have been done by now but fell by the wayside as I was travelling with work.

No dosage administrated. They didnt appear to be in much pain after. Checked them a few hours after and all in good form.

greysides

For general information, under the current animal welfare legislation:

Castration
• Farmers (or Veterinary Practitioners/Nurses) may perform, without the use of anaesthesia or analgesia, castration of:

o bulls up to 8 days of age by use of a rubber band or up to 6 months of age by use of a burdizzo;
o sheep up to 8 days of age by use of a rubber band or up to 3 months of age by use of a burdizzo;
o goats up to 8 days of age by use of a rubber band or up to 2 months of age by sue of a burdizzo;
o deer up to 8 days of age by use of a rubber band;
o pigs up to 8 days of age by a method that does not involve tearing of tissue;

Under current legislation a vet is meant to castrate animals over these limits.

Feckthis

LostCovey wrote: »

Dear Feck,

You are not having a great day at the office, by all appearances. Lets re-cap here:

• You took on a DIY castration, without being totally sure of what you were doing.
  
• It sounds like you made a little bit of a mess of it, but you do have the excuse that you don't know what you're at - its clearly not your fault.
• You declined to tell us what age it was, but I am going to take a wild guess that it was more than six months old
  
• You caused an animal significant needless suffering, based on your own description.
  
• You asked a crowd of strangers on the internet for advice, some of whom know a bit, and some of whom are a bit bonkers.
  
• You ignored all their advice, and apparently didn't check back.
  
• You accused those who were a bit concerned of being "animal rights activists".
  
• The animal you sloppily mutilated didn't die, so that vindicates your entire course of (in)action.
  
• And you saved the cost of a veterinary call-out to a sick animal.

Don't mind anyone else Feck, to me you are a hero.

You did indeed make a very wise set of decisions.

You are the future of farming in Ireland, which makes some of us shudder a bit.

The ironic part of this is that I will probably get into trouble for this summary, but nobody will say a word to you for the 2-day car-crash you described.

Pour yourself a large one, Feck, and enjoy the extra hour in the scratcher. it's people like you that keeps those real "animal rights activists" in business.

LC

Ok so first of all.

I know as much about castrating as my my father has shown me. Like any other young farmer in the country.? I done 30 weanlings on the day and messed up with 1. Get over it.

Secondly

I know it is MY Fault...! I have never blamed anybody else have I?

I didn't decline about the age (I wasn't online when asked and I did pop back in to have a look at the replys but didn't have the time to post back.

no I didn't call the vet but he did get a injection everyday.

And Yes I did ask for advise! I thought that is what this forum is about?no? The only part I ignored was to call the Vet. Which in the end was the right decision. I saved a vets bill. If the animal had not of improved yes! Of course I would have rang the Vet.

Maybe I shouldn't of mentioned animal rights activists. Was In bad form I'll take that back..

The part where you mention invidicates?? I won't even reply to that as I have not got a clue what your on about.

Yes I did save a bill and animal is now fine. Had a bit of a bloat but went down so I presumed he had passed urine. He looked a lot better in himself.

I hope nobody takes action against you!
Although what you say at the end of your post was not really needed to be honest. But anyway I won't lose any sleep over what you think!! I have been complimented many times on what I have done with the place since I took over. What someone on the internet thinks doesn't bother me in the slightest.

greysides

The pro's and con's of the decision process could be argued back and forth but in the end no good will come of it.

I think both sides have made their case and I'm going to close this thread ...........unless I receive a very compelling reason to reopen it by PM.

Toplink, if you wish to start another thread about castration technique, feel free to do so.