Foreign nationals taxi drivers /Garda vetting

Mr.Frame

I read in todays Indo that a man from Nigeria who has been driving a taxi for 8 years in Dublin is wanted in Italy as he is part of a multi million cocaine trafficking conspiracy in Naples.
He is one of Italys most wanted men ,yet has been driving in this country for 8 years.

Serious questions need to be asked as to why he was allowed to get a licence in the first place, plus serious consideration must now be taken swiftly and stop the issueing of licences to those who cannot be Garda vetted.

In the past month a number of non Irish taxi drivers have been involved in serious sexual assaults/sexual actions/no licence (a driver picked up a women outside Coppers and allegedly sexually assaulted her.

Two weeks ago a Garda arrested a Nigerian driver who was parked outside Trinity at 9am because he was masturbating to porn on his phone.
9am in the morning !!

Two weeks ago the Sun World exposed a Nigerian driver who had no licence, was convicted more than once ,had other cars all illegal and was still driving around as a taxi driver.

It really is not good enough that people from outside Europe cannot be Garda vetted and yet they are allowed to drive a taxi.

If Irish drivers and those within Europe are Garda vetted,and rightly so. In the interests of safety and fairness the regulations must change.

punisher5112

Taxi vehicles should be fitted with GPS systems that have to be logged on with a specific driver and code.
They should also have a tacho system similar to trucks and buses fitted as the hours some are driving is just pure dangerous.
Garda vetting may not work as there are a lot that have been convicted for crimes and such and are known to the cops but they have no powers to stop them doing this work.

Don't get m e wrong here there are p;lenty of decent hard working drivers out there but it always takes one to bring a lot down on the rest.

More checks and a specialist garda unit to deal with taxis only would be great but that is only something that happens in the US.

donkey balls

Everyone regardless of what part of the world they are from and depending on what job they do require Gardai vetting,This is normally done by civil servants and members of the Gardai.
I am not privy in how far they go back regarding foreign nationals but from my own experience having had numerous vetting carried out,I had to provide every address that I lived at from when I was born to my current address.
There should be more checks and balances carried out on everyone driving a taxi the problem you might have is regarding the nationality mentioned,These are used to playing the R card a lot.

Spook_ie

Link to story
http://www.herald.ie/news/ontherun-drug-baron-driving-a-taxi-in-dublin-30685873.html

Perhaps rather than worrying about Garda vetting for licenses, we should be more concerned over how he pulled the wool over GNIB in the first place and how despite him being brought to Garda attention numerous times he was never printed and ID'd before

Det Sgt Sean Fallon told the interlocutory hearing that when he was arrested at 12.25pm at Tallaght Garda Station, the respondent insisted he was Roy Yemmy Andrew Aro. His prints were taken and they matched those of Olatunde.

The court heard the respondent had been in Ireland for eight years and had "significant interactions" with the gardai. He had been fingerprinted more than once.

foggy_lad

He will most likely get bailed to appear in a few weeks time for his extradition hearing

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

He will most likely get bailed to disappear in a few weeks time for his extradition hearing

FYP

Mr.Frame

donkey balls wrote: »

Everyone regardless of what part of the world they are from and depending on what job they do require Gardai vetting,This is normally done by civil servants and members of the Gardai.
I am not privy in how far they go back regarding foreign nationals but from my own experience having had numerous vetting carried out,I had to provide every address that I lived at from when I was born to my current address.
There should be more checks and balances carried out on everyone driving a taxi the problem you might have is regarding the nationality mentioned,These are used to playing the R card a lot.

As things stand only those within the Europe can be Garda vetted.Those outside of Europe cannot.


If Irish drivers and those who come from within Europe are vetted then it should be only right that it is a level playing field ,but more importantly from the publics point of view they need to know they are being driven by someone with no "dodgy" background.

Peppa Pig

Mr.Frame wrote: »

If Irish drivers and those who come from within Europe are vetted then it should be only right that it is a level playing field ,but more importantly from the publics point of view they need to know they are being driven by someone with no "dodgy" background.

Are you saying that it is only those who have not been vetted that have "dodgy" backgrounds?

Would the vetting system still give licences to criminals?

corktina

All Taxi Drivers should be vetted and if there are any gaps in the info, a license should not be issued.

Rubberchikken

wasn't there something in the paper this week that a hugh number of teachers haven't been vetted to date?
sorry can't remember where i read it.
garda vetting - another well meant but ill thought out scheme by our fabulous government and civil service.

Mr.Frame

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Are you saying that it is only those who have not been vetted that have "dodgy" backgrounds?

Would the vetting system still give licences to criminals?

Im saying that those outside of the EU cannot be vetted by the Gardaí.

Mr.Frame

corktina wrote: »

All Taxi Drivers should be vetted and if there are any gaps in the info, a license should not be issued.

Completely agree with you,it makes sense. But unfortunately that is not happening

Peppa Pig

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Im saying that those outside of the EU cannot be vetted by the Gardaí.

Which can lead to God knows who getting licences. Agree with that.

Do you think that those inside Europe can get past the vetting or are all the "dodgy" ones caught through the vetting.

Mr.Frame

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Which can lead to God knows who getting licences. Agree with that.

Do you think that those inside Europe can get past the vetting or are all the "dodgy" ones caught through the vetting.

Well to be honest given the mess that is the "taxi business" and regulation/vetting ect ., anything is possible.
An irish guy was convicted only recently of having fake taxi licences.

AlekSmart

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Well to be honest given the mess that is the "taxi business" and regulation/vetting ect ., anything is possible.
An irish guy was convicted only recently of having fake taxi licences.

Oddly enough,this particular issue did'nt arise under the "Old Regime" operated by the Garda Carriage Office".

It has become a somewhat significant problem since the advent of Bobby Molloy's version of Deregulation,which sees none of the relevant agencies admitting to having responsibility for any particular part of the Industry.

Mr.Frame

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oddly enough,this particular issue did'nt arise under the "Old Regime" operated by the Garda Carriage Office".

It has become a somewhat significant problem since the advent of Bobby Molloy's version of Deregulation,which sees none of the relevant agencies admitting to having responsibility for any particular part of the Industry.

Personally I think the "powers that be" have lost control of the whole business.
You simply do not know if the driver bringing you home is legit or not.
I've been in cars where the driver had little or no English ,so how did he get a licence? and on and on it continues.

donkey balls

The taxi test/PSV should include an English proficiency test ,This is the norm in the Aviation industry were the candidate must be able to communicate in English with a certain amount of proficiency.
There might be a few do gooders saying that to introduce a proficiency test is racist/discrimination,But imo if it is used in other industries throughout the world I don't see a problem.

donkey balls

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/extradition-arrest-of-mother-of-six-wanted-to-serve-20-years-in-italy-30691120.html

The wife of the taxi driver is also wanted by the Italian authorities on drug charges

Spook_ie

donkey balls wrote: »

The taxi test/PSV should include an English proficiency test ,This is the norm in the Aviation industry were the candidate must be able to communicate in English with a certain amount of proficiency.
There might be a few do gooders saying that to introduce a proficiency test is racist/discrimination,But imo if it is used in other industries throughout the world I don't see a problem.

Don't think you can class it as racist/discriminatory as long as it is industry wide rather than etnicity based.

Fingerprinting is fine as long as it's for all
DNA register is fine as long as it's for all
Periodic driver competancy testing is fine as long as it's for all

The problem arises when these things are challenged in the courts, or if you boot someone out of a job without the fallback of Social Welfare etc.

Is there meant to be vetting of Irish drivers? I know a few who've spent time in prison (and others who broke out of prison :P ) who've been driving around with no issue for ages now.

n97 mini

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there meant to be vetting of Irish drivers? I know a few who've spent time in prison (and others who broke out of prison :P ) who've been driving around with no issue for ages now.

There is. Someone who has been in prison for not paying their TV licence is quite different to someone who has been in prison for rape. One is defintely not suited to taxi driving and won't be let buy a licence.

Sierra Oscar

The Nigerian authorities do not exactly have a close working relationship with An Garda Síochána, so makes vetting that extra difficult.

Mr.Frame

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Nigerian authorities do not exactly have a close working relationship with An Garda Síochána, so makes vetting that extra difficult.

It's ANYONE outside of the EU cannot be vetted, not just Nigerians.

Spook_ie

Mr.Frame wrote: »

It's ANYONE outside of the EU cannot be vetted, not just Nigerians.

Don't know about that, reckon Australia, USA, Canada would have pretty comprehensive records availiable.

The question is how much effort do you put into a taxi drivers record, compared to say a Peadatric Surgeon from Romania?
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1013/651912-mihai-anton-medical-council/


That's not to say in this instance the basic checks on the Nigerian arriving from where ever bythe GNIB failed completely by him being allowed into the country in the first place

Jawgap

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Im saying that those outside of the EU cannot be vetted by the Gardaí.

Not true.

In the UK if you are applying for a PSV licence you submit a CRB concession and they provide the information which is tiered. Things like convictions are returned along with info from Interpol & Europol for certain serious offences.

If you are a non-national you are required to obtain and submit a Certificate of Good Contact from your embassy.

No reason why we couldn't set up the same system here, but the drivers would never stand for it, meaning the NTA will never try.

Spook_ie

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there meant to be vetting of Irish drivers? I know a few who've spent time in prison (and others who broke out of prison :P ) who've been driving around with no issue for ages now.

There are various offences that the NTA wish to have listed as excluding you from holding a license. Liberalis though seems to think that if they've served their time they've extinguished the crime, and should be allowed to fullfill a place in society. Personally, I think it has to be based on what the crime is and a rehabilitation period following on from the sentance.

Nicking a car, maybe 3 years disallowed from holding a license
GBH, maybe 10 years
Rape/Sexual assault, never able to drive an SPSV

The problem is that some people having been found guilty of crimes in the past, though never coming to the GS's attention since would be automaticly kicked among them prisoners released under the Good Friday Agreement

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

There are various offences that the NTA wish to have listed as excluding you from holding a license. Liberalis though seems to think that if they've served their time they've extinguished the crime, and should be allowed to fullfill a place in society. Personally, I think it has to be based on what the crime is and a rehabilitation period following on from the sentance.

Nicking a car, maybe 3 years disallowed from holding a license
GBH, maybe 10 years
Rape/Sexual assault, never able to drive an SPSV

The problem is that some people having been found guilty of crimes in the past, though never coming to the GS's attention since would be automaticly kicked among them prisoners released under the Good Friday Agreement

Convictions are just the tip of the iceberg - soft intelligence should also be permitted to be considered by authorities when deciding if the applicant is fit & proper - again, the drivers would never stand so it will never be brought in - meaning the risks will perpetuate.

expectationlost

so they had his fingerprints but never ran them against the international/interpol database

Spook_ie

Jawgap wrote: »

Convictions are just the tip of the iceberg - soft intelligence should also be permitted to be considered by authorities when deciding if the applicant is fit & proper - again, the drivers would never stand so it will never be brought in - meaning the risks will perpetuate.

So you now want to extinguish the concept of innocent until proven guilty, even a trainee solicitor would drive a taxi through that concept

Spook_ie

Jawgap wrote: »

Not true.

In the UK if you are applying for a PSV licence you submit a CRB concession and they provide the information which is tiered. Things like convictions are returned along with info from Interpol & Europol for certain serious offences.

If you are a non-national you are required to obtain and submit a Certificate of Good Contact from your embassy.

No reason why we couldn't set up the same system here, but the drivers would never stand for it, meaning the NTA will never try.

I think it's more to do with the alleged level of corruption and documentaion availiable to certain ethnicities.

Mr.Frame

Jawgap wrote: »

Not true.

In the UK if you are applying for a PSV licence you submit a CRB concession and they provide the information which is tiered. Things like convictions are returned along with info from Interpol & Europol for certain serious offences.

If you are a non-national you are required to obtain and submit a Certificate of Good Contact from your embassy.

No reason why we couldn't set up the same system here, but the drivers would never stand for it, meaning the NTA will never try.

Actually according to the former minister of transport( Mr Kelly) it IS TRUE.

Jawgap

Spook_ie wrote: »

So you now want to extinguish the concept of innocent until proven guilty, even a trainee solicitor would drive a taxi through that concept

No - it's about whether you allow positive or passive vetting - developed vetting, I'd agree would be overkill for PSV drivers.

Currently PSV drivers are passively vetted - I think they should be positively vetted given they deal with people who are vulnerable or people when they are vulnerable (inebriated etc).


......and even a trainee solicitor can make the public good argument for such a system.....

......maybe even a non-practising barrister could

you are not being accused of anything, you are being assessed whether you are fit and proper person.

Lots of people have to undergo positive vetting before being permitted to be in positions of trust or responsibility as regards the public.

Jawgap

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Actually according to the former minister of transport( Mr Kelly) it IS TRUE.

Got a link?

It makes you wonder how TfL are able to do it, but they're just amateurs compared to the NTA aren't they.......

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/privacy-and-cookies/taxi-and-private-hire

dowlingm

If the Nigerian embassy were asked for a certificate of good conduct, would they have known about the drug charges in Italy? Probably not.

The cops in Ireland might have found out about the Italian charges from their counterparts but presumably only if they knew he had previously resided there and had fingerprints or identity info that would have flagged them?

When I immigrated to Canada I had to provide a Garda records clearance cert, and I think you have to provide one for all countries you lived in for a specified period in order to do so.

Mr.Frame

Jawgap wrote: »

Got a link?

It makes you wonder how TfL are able to do it, but they're just amateurs compared to the NTA aren't they.......

https://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/privacy-and-cookies/taxi-and-private-hire

No I don't have "a link", it was a radio interview he did during the year when questioned.
I'm hardly going to make things up just for the sake of it,ffs!

Jawgap

Mr.Frame wrote: »

No I don't have "a link", it was a radio interview he did during the year when questioned.
I'm hardly going to make things up just for the sake of it,ffs!

Convenient.

You'd wonder why he'd say something that's easy to do

Mr.Frame

Jawgap wrote: »

Convenient.

You'd wonder why he'd say something that's easy to do

Convenient???

If you think its so easy perhaps,why not send him an email and ask him, or since you know better why don't you set up a vetting service and we will all be able to sleep better at night.

expectationlost

Mr.Frame wrote: »

No I don't have "a link", it was a radio interview he did during the year when questioned.
I'm hardly going to make things up just for the sake of it,ffs!

you can link to radio inteviews,most are archived, what station was it? when?, what program?

Jawgap

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Convenient???

If you think its so easy perhaps,why not send him an email and ask him, or since you know better why don't you set up a vetting service and we will all be able to sleep better at night.

Yes - convenient.

Most of his media utterances seem to be here - http://www.alankelly.ie/

......and I can't set up a 'vetting service' because it's most properly done by the state, under proper authority with an effective system of governance and oversight in place.......


.......saying that if the government can ever overcome the vested interests and move towards setting up something akin to the CRB in the UK I'd be happy to come on board as CEO for a low six figure salary

Losty Dublin

The Garda vetting here, loose and all as it is, is easily bypassed by convicted criminals in our courts over the years. All it takes is a visit to the court to apply for an appeal to a rejected application on the basis they have a right to make a living and a licence will be issued with, at worst, a probationary period of a year. If a citizen is a convicted criminal and he or she can still get a PSV in Ireland upon appeal, there is little point in the time and hassle in the Carriage Officers requiring vetting of non nationals given that the same avenue of appeal is open to them. The right of refusal should either be there and applied or not at all; the current "Ah go on and be good" situation is farcical.

Jawgap wrote: »

Yes - convenient.

Most of his media utterances seem to be here - http://www.alankelly.ie/

......and I can't set up a 'vetting service' because it's most properly done by the state, under proper authority with an effective system of governance and oversight in place.......


.......saying that if the government can ever overcome the vested interests and move towards setting up something akin to the CRB in the UK I'd be happy to come on board as CEO for a low six figure salary

petronius

Of course there should be garda vetting for all taxi drivers regardless of national origin.
I had a good and bad experience of a foreign national driving a taxi one guy was either trying to pull a fast one and go the long way(he thought i was american), pretending he didnt know the way to my destination, claiming the GPS was telling him to go the wrong way which it was not.
The 2nd guy an eastern european (russian maybe) knew the city as well as a native like me, even saying he was going to go the geographic long way since traffic was heavy the other way and gave me the option of going that way if i doubted him.

Mrs OBumble

Well I know an Irish guy with a driving conviction who's driving a taxi.

(Can't share with you exactly how I know ... let's just say there is zero chance I'm wrong.)