Appealing infraction for being "crude"

BrokenHero

Would like to appeal an infraction I received in tGC for being "crude" in a post I made which was subsequently edited and yellow carded. I can confirm that I have contacted the moderator to discuss it and they are adamant that the card was deserved and added that they have discussed it with other forum mods and that they too feel it appropriate.

The post which I made was in a thread which had been started by a user to discuss how men and women can be judged in vastly different ways for behaving in similarly sexual ones. I wished to use the example of how men visiting lap dances clubs is quite often seen by society in a much different light to when women attend male strip shows. Which to me is unjust given that playful sexual acts are quite often commonplace at male strip shows and not at lap dancing clubs.

Granted, I used a hear-say anecdote as an example and I don't dispute that perhaps I should, have linked to an article or similar to show that these acts that I spoke of are indeed commonplace, rather than just use a here-say anecdote. However, I have received the infraction for being "crude" and "going too far" and it is this accusation and reasoning for the card which I am disputing, as I don't feel that I was crude at all. Here is my reasoning for that:

I had to in at least some way describe the act which I was referring to at these male strip shows (usually which takes place behind a towel) and when I did so, I was quite mindful of the forum which I was posting in and purposefully did not use vulgar words for the male and female body parts. I used the words vagina and penis. Nor was I overly graphic in describing the act itself. The word 'lick' was about as graphic as I got. Here is that post:

boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=92701458&postcount=36

I completely understand and respect that the tGC has a standard and tone at the heart of it's ethos which it would like to keep and I have no wish to undermine that. I get that but my contention is that I didn't cross the line based on the fact that there are posts made in tGC regularly which are far more graphic than the one I made, which don't get infracted or edited. I have seen some posts carded for crudity but they were in a different league to what I posted. Here's just one quite recent post which I feel is very crude but yet has not been carded:

boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91114792&postcount=317

That's just one example, there are many (in that thread alone) and so on that basis, I am appealing the infraction for crudity / "posting below the standard of TGC" as it appears to be inconsistent with what is generally deemed more than acceptable standard of discourse on the forum.

Scofflaw

Hmm. Edited bits of the post include:

BrokenHero wrote:

Knew a few women who went to see the dreamboys at some theater and told me her friend was allowed to perform oral sex on one of the men behind a towel and another to lick whipped cream off another stripper's penis.

- Which is cool and all, but I can't imagine any female lap dancers being allowed to hold a night at a prestigious theater, let alone one that let men lick cream from a woman's vagina. I'd be certainly buying a ticket if they did though.

I'm going to have to go with 'crude' as an entirely reasonable judgement. And other poster's infractions or lack thereof never settles the question of whether a given post deserves an infraction or warning.

I'm afraid I have no difficulty at all in upholding a yellow card for this. You can appeal that decision to the Admins.

moderately,
Scofflaw

BrokenHero

Scofflaw wrote: »

I'm going to have to go with 'crude' as an entirely reasonable judgement.

And the reason for that is? I have made it quite clear why it is that I feel the infraction was unreasonable and I would appreciate it if you in return would give some sort of explanation as to why you feel it wasn't.

And other poster's infractions or lack thereof never settles the question of whether a given post deserves an infraction or warning.

Did you miss:

BrokenHero wrote: »

That's just one example, there are many (in that thread alone) and so on that basis I am appealing the infraction for crudity and "posting below the standard of TGC" as it appears to be inconsistent with what is generally deemed more than acceptable standard of discourse on the forum.

Quite clearly, I am not saying that because one or two users have posted X, on that basis I should be allowed to post Y. What I am saying is that it is deemed perfectly acceptable to post X on that forum regularly and consistently and so deciding to infract someone for saying Y is absurd.

I'm afraid I have no difficulty at all in upholding a yellow card for this.

Again, you don't say why. All you are doing here is saying that that have "no difficulty" upholding the yellow card. Obviously, but why? No reasoning for it. Surely you must have some.

You can appeal that decision to the Admins.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Fine, but I would much prefer to first hear just why it is that you're choosing to endorse the infraction. You are a SOC Cmod and so as such, you are clearly more than familiar with the content of tGC. The member of admin that I get may not be be.

Here's my point in a nutshell, Scofflaw. If you at least address it, then I may not ask for an admin review at all as I will feel that my reasoning was given the respect which I feel it deserves:

There are many many threads in tGC, as you know, that require somewhat of an adult nature of conversation to take place. It may not be Sex & Sexuality, but adult topic threads are quite commonplace and again, I of course respect that tGC mods do not want overly graphic posts being posted there but I just not feel that my post qualified as such.

The thread regarding sex during menstruation which I referenced already was just one of them. I could just as easily have referenced the Penis Enlargement thread, the Sexual Partners thread, the Peeing in front of Other Men thread etc etc, all of which contain quite graphic discussion and where users spoke quite candidly about sexual matters such as dealing with blood flow during intercourse (in the case of the menstruation thread) and where words were used for the male and female genitalia, which would be deemed far more vulgar and crude than the words which I used, which lets face it, most children would learn in primary school.

I mean, is it really been suggested here that a discussion where human genitalia is spoke of in quite a vulgar and graphic fashion, which includes discourse regarding the presence of blood during sex, is somehow less crude than someone mentioning human genitalia using non-vulgar terms and which speaks of the presence of cream?

Seems a nonsensical infraction to be quite honest and I would suggest perhaps that tGC amend their charter if users are going to be so indiscriminately accused of posting below the forum's standard, as (other than NSFW images and the like) I see no mention of crudity within it, let alone what the forum's moderators feels qualifies as such, on a given day.

trout

I've read the original post, in the context of the thread.

The tone of the post strikes me as somewhat crude. Specifically the part about buying a ticket. I think that's crude.

This infraction is specifically for that post, in that thread ... not what might be observed from other posts/threads.

If you think the line is blurry ... you are right, it is.

If you think other posts have crossed the line, feel free to report them.

The mod made a judgement call ... edited the post and infracted. I think that's reasonable.

- I'm picking this up as a former tGC mod & cmod.

BrokenHero

trout wrote: »

I've read the original post, in the context of the thread.

The tone of the post strikes me as somewhat crude. Specifically the part about buying a ticket. I think that's crude.

"Somewhat crude"? It was a joke and again, hardly something which would be out of place in tGC. I was just trying to lighten the post in an effort to make it clear that I do not necessarily have an issue with women taking part in those acts at those shows, just that were it common for men to take part in similar acts when at female lap dancing clubs, they would without doubt be viewed in far different light than women who do. Which is why I felt it relevant to that thread. I don't see how else I was supposed to make the point that I wished to, without describing the act in some fashion. You suggest omitting the joke would have done that, which I feel is unfair as it implies joking about such things have no place in tGC and again this too seems to be not be the case at all, from my reading of the forum at least.

This infraction is specifically for that post, in that thread ... not what might be observed from other posts/threads.

I am being accused of posting below the standard of tGC and so surely the forum's other threads and posts have been brought into by the moderator making the accusation to begin with. Surely the forums other threads fall under the umbrella which is "tGC standard". Yet, when I reference other threads, it's being implied they are not relevant.

Also, I think it's worth highlighting, that the thread we are talking about here was one started to discuss women discreetly checking out the size of men's bulges and so it's not as if I jumped on a thread which had a more angelic topic and started to inappropriately shoehorn it into it. I could understand the infraction somewhat perhaps if I had.

If you think the line is blurry ... you are right, it is.

It's not that I just think the line is blurry. I appreciate that it would be almost impossible for moderators to say precisely what is and is not acceptable to post, with regards to crudity but surely what I posted was quite tame given what is regularly deemed acceptable in tGC. You, and the forum's moderators don't seem to feel that any of this is relevant and so not much I can do than to say that I think it's nonsensical to suggest that it isn't, given that I am being accused of posting below tGC standard.

If you think other posts have crossed the line, feel free to report them.

Trout, I have no problem with any of the posts which I have referenced. I thought it obvious, but let me make it perfectly clear that I merely exampled those posts and threads in an effort to show that regularly and consistently posts are made in tGC which are far more crude in nature and tone than the one which I made.. and for no other reason.

The mod made a judgement call ... edited the post and infracted. I think that's reasonable.

I'm picking this up as a former tGC mod & cmod.

Fair enough. Thanks, I apppreciate you looking at it.