BMW e46 M3

Veloce

Considering an e46 M3 for my next car. Has anyone on here any experiences with owning one? Good ones are hard to come by and these ones are priced quite strong.

I'm looking at the Coupe with a preference for a manual trans but may also consider the SMG gearbox if I like the feel of them (have yet to drive a SMG).

Any input welcomed.

Alanstrainor

TouchingVirus here has an SMG soft top coupe.

Veloce

Alanstrainor wrote: »

TouchingVirus here has an SMG soft top coupe.

Oh yes, thanks, I believe I met him at a track training day in Mondello last year - the smile on his face down the start/finish straight said it all . Be interested in hearing how it's going since.

Alanstrainor

What kind of budget do you have for one? Despite all the concerns you'd read online, I'm not so sure how afraid I'd be owning one. I would however want a good example, and would most likely do a lot of maintenance before putting it on the road! But they are expensive to run, no doubting that.

listermint

I owned a manual for over 3 years, recently sold it this year.

Good ones i agree are hard to come by and good ones will hold money in them if treated with care and attention.

I do miss the vehicle but it was sold to an owner that i know will look after it.

In terms of things to look out for. All E46 Models from 318 all the way up to 330 and M3 Variants suffer from Sub Frame malformation which leads to cracks around the subframe mount points. This is an inevitable fact with the chassis and must be considered when purchasing one. Depending on how the vehicle was treated in its lifetime it will be very evident or not so evident, year and mileage has no bearing on this. I would suggest purchasing one that has had reinforcement work completed (as mine had) or has had a new chassis underbody replaced under BMW warranty.

If else you will need to budget for the work around 1400 Euro all in. Outside this insure that the bushes have been replaced within its lifecycle. There are varying bushes across the vehicle and varying degrees of expense.

Insure that it has had its run in service completed (should be marked in the book) insure that it has had Inspection I and Inspection IIs completed at the relevant mileage over its lifecycle.

The Vanos is a point of failure on them can depend on how often the oil was changed. The bolts can become loose so that would be an area to be inspected via inspection II.


Overall service history and Condition are two important items on it. And have some budget in your bank to look after the vehicle. I would think 1000k would be required as back up.


But the vehicle will give you alot of joy. Its tough to get that sort of performance, reliability and practicality in a sports car of its ilk. Its standout in that respect.


Usual things to consider tax insurance and obviously fuel.


I would be looking at the BMW forums in the country for ex member vehicles. bmw-driver and bmwhaus would be where i would start.


Beware of ones that have changed hands often, this is evident with lower priced ones.


Oh and as for SMG,while its fun. I never took to it despite trying often and long. It advise driving both first.

Veloce

Alanstrainor wrote: »

What kind of budget do you have for one? Despite all the concerns you'd read online, I'm not so sure how afraid I'd be owning one. I would however want a good example, and would most likely do a lot of maintenance before putting it on the road! But they are expensive to run, no doubting that.

I was hoping to pick one up for between €7k and €9k. I haven't been to see many examples but it would appear that the better listed adverts online (that list all the servicing intervals etc - and are clearly enthusiast owned) seem to be commanding upwards of €10k to €13k. (say from '02 - '04). These all have mileage in the late 99k or early 100k.

No doubt it will be expensive to run. I'm prepared for that - I know all too well the about high tax / low mpg that I'm currently experiencing. I am hoping to get an example that avoids me having to sink an extra few grand to get right once I've bought the car (as with any car!)

Veloce

listermint wrote: »

I owned a manual for over 3 years, recently sold it this year.

Good ones i agree are hard to come by and good ones will hold money in them if treated with care and attention.

I do miss the vehicle but it was sold to an owner that i know will look after it.

In terms of things to look out for. All E46 Models from 318 all the way up to 330 and M3 Variants suffer from Sub Frame malformation which leads to cracks around the subframe mount points. This is an inevitable fact with the chassis and must be considered when purchasing one. Depending on how the vehicle was treated in its lifetime it will be very evident or not so evident, year and mileage has no bearing on this. I would suggest purchasing one that has had reinforcement work completed (as mine had) or has had a new chassis underbody replaced under BMW warranty.

If else you will need to budget for the work around 1400 Euro all in. Outside this insure that the bushes have been replaced within its lifecycle. There are varying bushes across the vehicle and varying degrees of expense.

Insure that it has had its run in service completed (should be marked in the book) insure that it has had Inspection I and Inspection IIs completed at the relevant mileage over its lifecycle.

The Vanos is a point of failure on them can depend on how often the oil was changed. The bolts can become loose so that would be an area to be inspected via inspection II.


Overall service history and Condition are two important items on it. And have some budget in your bank to look after the vehicle. I would think 1000k would be required as back up.


But the vehicle will give you alot of joy. Its tough to get that sort of performance, reliability and practicality in a sports car of its ilk. Its standout in that respect.


Usual things to consider tax insurance and obviously fuel.


I would be looking at the BMW forums in the country for ex member vehicles. bmw-driver and bmwhaus would be where i would start.


Beware of ones that have changed hands often, this is evident with lower priced ones.


Oh and as for SMG,while its fun. I never took to it despite trying often and long. It advise driving both first.

Fantastic post - thanks a lot listermint.

I know about the subframe issue - thanks for confirming the repair cost.

Could you expand on the vanos failure? Is it a frequent failure on all E46 M3s or just a few? Any idea of typical repair costs?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

I looked at 02-04 ones 4 years ago and some could be got then for below 10k. This is one car where there a a few gems out there, but a lot of lemons. You need to have any car fully checked out. I brought one from a reputable garage to an indy for a pre sales check and the list of things needed doing ran to over 10k.

Great car all the same, but a good example is worth the money. A junker will break your heart.

Idbatterim

Id go for a facelift one if I were you, the subframe as mentioned is one of the issues that might affect the car... You would have to have it thoroughly checked out by a bmw specialist. Would you consider an M5? Will give you more options if so, you are going to be getting done on the motor tax one way or another...

listermint

Veloce wrote: »

Fantastic post - thanks a lot listermint.

I know about the subframe issue - thanks for confirming the repair cost.

Could you expand on the vanos failure? Is it a frequent failure on all E46 M3s or just a few? Any idea of typical repair costs?

Vanos Failure can be from poorly maintained Vanos Oil Filter, bad oil or poor oil intervals. You can get things such as the mounting bolts retracing themselves out of their holes and shattering under vibration.

This would be picked up with Inspection II checks as part of the valve timing checks. So its a visual inspection and shouldnt cause too much hastle.

Its not common, but something to note if you are looking at a cheaper variant.

kdevitt

Idbatterim wrote: »

Id go for a facelift one if I were you.

E46 M3 was never facelifted.

listermint

Idbatterim wrote: »

Id go for a facelift one if I were you, the subframe as mentioned is one of the issues that might affect the car... You would have to have it thoroughly checked out by a bmw specialist. Would you consider an M5? Will give you more options if so, you are going to be getting done on the motor tax one way or another...

facelift was rear tail lights and the rear boot handle was subtely changed shape at each end.

If it came to a bad face lift or a good pre facelift id go with the pre. Soley because rear lights can be swapped out easily and with not alot of cost to OEM.

So that should not be a sticking point for any purchaser.

Veloce

OSI wrote: »

What are you looking for from the M3 that the Z isn't providing if you don't mind me asking?

Two reasons OSI: 1) The M3 has seats in the back! 2) I've always had a strong itch for a M3 and do fancy a change at some point down the line

Why did I buy a Z before a M3?

I felt the Z was far better value for money. For less than €6k you could pick up a 2005 with 60k miles and a full service history. Brembo 4 pots, Rays wheels, Xexon lights, aero pack, heated leather seats etc... this compared to a 2001 M3 with 100k miles and 2-3k more.

Performance:
There is not much difference in terms of performance between the Z and the M3, I've seen them duelling it out on the track. The M3 is quicker off the line no doubt.

I need to ask myself is it really worthwhile changing? I could live without rear seats - it is just a pain sometimes.

listermint

Veloce wrote: »

Two reasons OSI: 1) The M3 has seats in the back! 2) I've always had a strong itch for a M3 and do fancy a change at some point down the line

Why did I buy a Z before a M3?

I felt the Z was far better value for money. For less than €6k you could pick up a 2005 with 60k miles and a full service history. Brembo 4 pots, Rays wheels, Xexon lights, aero pack, heated leather seats etc... this compared to a 2001 M3 with 100k miles and 2-3k more.

Performance:
There is not much difference in terms of performance between the Z and the M3, I've seen them duelling it out on the track. The M3 is quicker off the line no doubt.

I need to ask myself is it really worthwhile changing? I could live without rear seats - it is just a pain sometimes.

Having driven both, Personally i think the M3 is more fun and also feels more aggressive 'to the seat' performance.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

what variant of Z your talking about here.

MetzgerMeister

Esmeralda Scruffy Staff wrote: »

what variant of Z your talking about here.

Tree Fiddy

I know it's not an M car but an e92 335i with a remap is more powerful than an e46 M3. It has its issues but servicing etc. is a lot cheaper because they're not M parts.

It depends on what you're after really as far as the overall package is concerned.

Veloce

Esmeralda Scruffy Staff wrote: »

what variant of Z your talking about here.

350z - (EU) VQ35DE engine

Veloce

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Tree Fiddy

I know it's not an M car but an e92 335i with a remap is more powerful than an e46 M3. It has its issues but servicing etc. is a lot cheaper because they're not M parts.

It depends on what you're after really as far as the overall package is concerned.

I drove a stock '07 335i last year. Acceleration was stonkingly quick! Definitely worth a consideration - but I think right now, I'm more a n/a guy than a turbo guy!

fmcg_scribe

Veloce wrote: »

I was hoping to pick one up for between €7k and €9k. I haven't been to see many examples but it would appear that the better listed adverts online (that list all the servicing intervals etc - and are clearly enthusiast owned) seem to be commanding upwards of €10k to €13k. (say from '02 - '04). These all have mileage in the late 99k or early 100k.

No doubt it will be expensive to run. I'm prepared for that - I know all too well the about high tax / low mpg that I'm currently experiencing. I am hoping to get an example that avoids me having to sink an extra few grand to get right once I've bought the car (as with any car!)

Get some quotations for insurance before you buy anything - you'll probably find that few insurers will give you a quote and the few that do quote might want a massive excess.

I owned an E46 M3 (manual) for two years. It was bought as a BMW approved used. It had a high spec. Can't really add any substantial for your buyers checklist - most of the other replies here so far have covered most of the main issues.

Veloce

Is insurance difficult to obtain for these cars?

I'm still under 30 so I'm hoping this won't be a huge issue. Insurance in the Zed was something like €620 fully comp with Liberty.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Veloce wrote: »

350z - (EU) VQ35DE engine

Oh right, I though you were talking about a Z4....yeah a 350z is a contender.

Veloce wrote: »

I drove a stock '07 335i last year. Acceleration was stonkingly quick! Definitely worth a consideration - but I think right now, I'm more a n/a guy than a turbo guy!

The 335i is the best engine ever. I currently drive a e60 m5 and the 335i is still one of my favourite cars ever ever ever. Perfect in almost every way.

fmcg_scribe

Veloce wrote: »

Is insurance difficult to obtain for these cars?

I'm still under 30 so I'm hoping this won't be a huge issue. Insurance in the Zed was something like €620 fully comp with Liberty.

Car should not be as costly to insure now compared to when it was in production.

However, it's a high performance car and still attractive to thieves, more likely to be crashed, and expensive to repair. Bear in mind too that it is 20 in the old UK motor insurance risk categories (1-20).

Your age is somewhat in your favour. If you have a full licence for a few years, have kept few or no penalty points, no recent claims, and some NCB in your name, that a should help.

You need to make get some quotes ASAP. Although car is out of production, agreeing to install a tracker might get you money off from insurers - you'd need to feel that out during the phone calls.

fmcg_scribe

Esmeralda Scruffy Staff wrote: »

The 335i is the best engine ever. I currently drive a e60 m5 and the 335i is still one of my favourite cars ever ever ever. Perfect in almost every way.

Agree that engine in E9x 335i is good - I had it in a 135i coupe. However, the S54 engine is a different beast. I owned the 135i and the E46 M3 back to back. For some folks, owning an M car is an itch that just has to be scratched.

kdevitt

Its the same ins group as your 350Z - can't see it costing any more than that to be honest.

Mine is actually cheaper to insure than my MkV GTi was.

TouchingVirus

Veloce wrote: »

Oh yes, thanks, I believe I met him at a track training day in Mondello last year - the smile on his face down the start/finish straight said it all . Be interested in hearing how it's going since.

On that hot day in July when we were baked out of it on track and off it, I remember. I've not been back since, took it a little too quick down the back straight with some fading breaks and nearly binned it into Tarzan

What do you want to know? It's given me minimal trouble, has 110k on it (bought at 95.5k) and we're coming up on two years of ownership in January. And if you want a test drive we can talk too, she was made to be drove - drop me a PM.

I'm 28, 27 when the insurance passed me by there in June and it cost E1150 for fully comp with 5 nears NCB, no points and with step down protection.

fmcg_scribe

kdevitt wrote: »

Its the same ins group as your 350Z - can't see it costing any more than that to be honest.

Mine is actually cheaper to insure than my MkV GTi was.

Just because two cars are in the same insurance category does not mean that both will be easy to insure or that they will cost roughly the same to insure. I've had several cars around 18-20 on the old UK scale and the M3 was easily the trickiest and one of the most expensive to insure and I was already in my early forties at the time.

Recently a friend of mine in Dublin who's also in his forties had a lot of problems getting reasonable quotes for renewing the insurance on his 07 reg Jag XK convertible. OK convertibles especially high powered ones can be costly to insure even at the best of times but my friend has no claims history and no points and doesn't do high miles.

kdevitt

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Just because two cars are in the same insurance category does not mean that both will be easy to insure or that they will cost roughly the same to insure. I've had several cars around 18-20 on the old UK scale and the M3 was easily the trickiest and one of the most expensive to insure and I was already in my early forties at the time.

I know of lads insuring M3s for reasonable money at the age of 21. I insured mine at 29, and 8 years later have never had any hassle at renewal. Insurance for me is less than 3 months of motor tax. Not denying you may have had issues, but your case is not the norm.

fmcg_scribe

kdevitt wrote: »

I know of lads insuring M3s for reasonable money at the age of 21. I insured mine at 29, and 8 years later have never had any hassle at renewal. Insurance for me is less than 3 months of motor tax. Not denying you may have had issues, but your case is not the norm.

I don't doubt you but a lot of insurers are wary of cars like the M3 and that can narrow options for quotes. The E9x M3 is costly to insure and I presume that the current M3 and M4 are costly to insure - it could be interesting for you to get quotes from your current insurer for those cars.

All of this does not change what I said to the OP - get a sense of the likely cost of insurance before buying an M3.

MetzgerMeister

Lads, let's not forget that it's not just the car but also your location, occupation and respective risk are factors.

kdevitt

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

The E9x M3 is costly to insure and I presume that the current M3 and M4 are costly to insure - it could be interesting for you to get quotes from your current insurer for those cars.

Ok, but this is an e46 M3 thread. E92/E90 or F32 insurance quotes are kind of irrelevant.

fmcg_scribe

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Lads, let's not forget that it's not just the car but also your location, occupation and respective risk are factors.

Indeed. I'm OK on all of those counts.