No earth in bathroom

zombiekiller

I am replacing a bathroom bulkhead for a woman on the road. She has got a decorative metal 3 lamp fitting to replace. I am nearly sure there was no earth at the old fitting. So i will have to stick in a new rcbo for the upstairs lights. Am i right in thinking you wouldnt want the upstairs lights on the rcd incase it trips and the lights will go two. And then i mite have problems with borrowed nuetrals so the two lighting circuits will have to go on the same rcd.
And if i remember what type of lights can not go on an rcd is it discharge lighting and are outside hallogen ok.

thanks

mikeyjames9

best bet if there's no cpc(earth) is to replace with a decent 2D high frequency luminaire that doesn't require one


do not bother getting into RCBOs ....presumably you're not an electrician


bathroom lights wouldn't usually have a 'borrowed' neutral

it was common back in the day for the upstairs landing light to borrow a neutral

i imagine that's entirely gone now as it doesn't comply with regs anyhow....certainly i haven't done it or seen it done for many years

hufpc8w3adnk65

That light fitting your going too install (if I'm thinking of the right one with the gu10 bulbs exposed) hasn't got a sufficient IP rating for that environment... Do not install it earth or no earth and please God call a professional before someone gets hurt!

zombiekiller

First of all i am an electrician and im using this forum for advice on something im not sure on. Now i would have advised on a 2d fitting and that was what fitting broke on her but she went out and bought this fancy metal one. I was up at the colleges a few weeks ago tryin to get a set of regs threw a freind with a student card and they had none so all i am left with is the web and i could not find the irish zone standards for a bathroom but in the uk the light was in zone 3 no IP protection needed. But i realise this doesnt solve the problem of no earth . I am doin this for nothing as she is a neighbour but i will just have to tell her to get a rated 2d fitting.

bucky08

How old is the lady you are installing this light for??

mikeyjames9

zombiekiller wrote: »

i could not find the irish zone standards for a bathroom but in the uk the light was in zone 3 no IP protection needed. But i realise this doesnt solve the problem of no earth .

i'm not too well up on bathroom zones myself but i believe we use the same zone dimensions as the UK

i think as you say there's no IP specified for zone 3 but the bulbs should be enclosed in a cover(et101:2008)

the RCBO is a non-runner as it is specifically for the bathroom only

not worth the bother when replacing 1 fitting

2011

If it was my bathroom and rewiring was not an option I would install a suitable ELV (12VDC) IP rated downlighter. This does not require an earth and shock risk is mitigated by using a non-leathal voltage. They also look good

solargain

zombiekiller wrote: »

First of all i am an electrician and im using this forum for advice on something im not sure on. Now i would have advised on a 2d fitting and that was what fitting broke on her but she went out and bought this fancy metal one. I was up at the colleges a few weeks ago tryin to get a set of regs threw a freind with a student card and they had none so all i am left with is the web and i could not find the irish zone standards for a bathroom but in the uk the light was in zone 3 no IP protection needed. But i realise this doesnt solve the problem of no earth . I am doin this for nothing as she is a neighbour but i will just have to tell her to get a rated 2d fitting.

Metal fitting in a bathroom with no earth and not IP65 rated is a non runner . Doing it for free or not could land you in the height of trouble if something goes wrong later. You are not exempt from the regs regardless if money changes hands or not.

zombiekiller

Ip rated fitting up and all. As the light would have been in zone 3 of the bathroom(no ip rating uk standards). Someone said earlier if the bulbs were enclosed and a earth was there, could a metal fitting be used in a bathroom.
And is it not in the regs that any 230v equip in a bathroom needs rcd protection including lights.

mikeyjames9

zombiekiller wrote: »

And is it not in the regs that any 230v equip in a bathroom needs rcd protection including lights.

-if the lights are 12volt OR mounted outside zone 3 they don't need an rcbo

-230v lights in bathroom zones require an rcbo

-lights in all bathroom zones must have a cover

-there is no IP rating specified for lights in zone3 or outside the bathroom zones


that is my reading of the rules on the issue



i don't believe the rule on rcbos would apply to replacement of an existing bathroom fitting...maybe someone can correct me on that if i'm mistaken

Risteard81

zombiekiller wrote: »

i could not find the irish zone standards for a bathroom but in the uk the light was in zone 3 no IP protection needed.

The IEE Wiring Regulations has not designated a Zone 3 in the bathroom since the 17th Edition replaced the 16th Edition. That said, you need to work to the 4th Edition of ET101 and not BS 7671.

solargain

totally agree, we are not in the UK, their regs do not apply here

cerastes

Out of interest, I was thinking of getting a shave/toothbrush socket in the bathroom, does this mean Id have to get or be better off just getting new wire from it to the consumer unit with an RCBO fitted?
Could this then also supply the same shave charger outlet in the ensuit backed onto bathroom? I'm think so.

or is this unnecessary for the fitting type Ive mentioned? there isnt a previous incarnation of it in either room.

I havent looked, but I suspect there wont be an earth as I changed the downstairs light fittings in a few rooms and I dont recal there being an earth downstairs.