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What would have happened if the PIRA weren't so infiltrated?

  • 20-10-2014 6:22pm
    #1
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭


    With the amount that's come out in the wash about Scappaticci, Donaldson, Joe Cahill and many other's, there must have been a marked effect on the operational capacity of PIRA at it's height in the 70's / 80's.

    What difference, if any does anyone think it would have made if they were a more watertight organisation?


Comments

  • #2
    NIMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,915 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    In terms of winning the conflict, you mean? If so, I would say none.

    They were never going to beat the British Army into a retreat anyway, it was always going to be stalemate in that war.

    For a group with supposedly a high level of informants, they did plenty of damage for a long time.


  • #3
    Tramps Like Us
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Tramps Like Us


    NIMAN wrote: »
    In terms of winning the conflict, you mean? If so, I would say none.

    They were never going to beat the British Army into a retreat anyway, it was always going to be stalemate in that war.

    For a group with supposedly a high level of informants, they did plenty of damage for a long time.
    Have a good think about that, and bear in mind that the Brits were happy to have their agents in loyalist groups carry out a whole host of murders.


  • #4
    fryup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,067 ✭✭✭✭fryup


    dd972 wrote: »
    With the amount that's come out in the wash about Scappaticci, Donaldson, Joe Cahill and many other's?

    was old joe an informer??


  • #5
    maccored
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,766 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    according to the gossip columns of the redtops - no actual proof (as usual) to back it up.
    fryup wrote: »
    was old joe an informer??


  • #6
    guttenberg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 960 ✭✭✭guttenberg


    NIMAN wrote: »

    For a group with supposedly a high level of informants, they did plenty of damage for a long time.

    I can't help but wonder if all these informants were used to shut down paramilitaries/attacks as soon as they were identified, how many extra people would be alive today.:(


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  • #7
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    I doubt there would have been much difference to the outcome of the conflict. It was always going to end in a draw. Maybe stuff like Loughgall & Clonoe (may the brave volunteers rest in peace) wouldn't have happened.


  • #8
    billie holiday
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 100 ✭✭billie holiday


    its easy to criticise from the comfort of insulated heated houses in the Republic in 2014.


  • #9
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    You have to rember the IRA were very heavily infiltrated in 1975 & 76. So they adopted the cell system & were alot harder to infiltrate then.


  • #10
    DarkyHughes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭DarkyHughes


    guttenberg wrote: »
    I can't help but wonder if all these informants were used to shut down paramilitaries/attacks as soon as they were identified, how many extra people would be alive today.:(

    Probably alot, especially Catholic civilians. McGurks Bar bombing, Miami Show band massacre, Loughingisland massacre, Greysteel massacre, Bookmakers massacre, Miltown attack, Pat Finucane killing, The 72 Dublin bombing & the Dublin & Monaghan bombings beer all the hallmarks of collusion. A number of former UDA & UVF men have said themselves they couldn't have been half as effective (in killing people) without help or info from security forces or IT people. The British Army themselves were committing large scale massacres of civilians from 70 -72, Falls Curfew, Ballymurphy massacre, Bloody Sunday & the Springhill massacre all happened within the space of just over a year & a half, then some bright spark realized this was counter-productive & then got the paramilitaries to do their dirty work. And of course there's Brian Nelson.

    On the Republican side the killing of Billy Wright comes to mind as the only real possibility of collusion between security forces. There's also rumor that Cpt. Robert Nairac set-up the Kingsmill massacre to heighten sectarian tensions. Have no idea how credible that theory is.


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