Today in the news 20 October

fmcg_scribe

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/rolls-royce-still-undecided-suv-plans

Key quote: “Fifty per cent of cars sold around the world are now SUVs,”

Related story: Audi remains cool on plans for Lamborghini SUV
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-remains-cool-plans-lamborghini-suv

alias no.9

The term SUV has been massively abused. It originated in the US where emissions laws could be bypassed by having a passenger vehicle that was heavy enough to be classified as a light truck and they were generally passenger bodies on pickup chassis. These days, everything from a Nissan Juke to a Porsche Cayenne on the Ugly Axis and from a Dacia Duster to a Landrover Defender on the Utility Axis is described as an SUV. It's about as useful as the word car at categorizing vehicles.

fmcg_scribe

alias no.9 wrote: »

The term SUV has been massively abused. It originated in the US where emissions laws could be bypassed by having a passenger vehicle that was heavy enough to be classified as a light truck and they were generally passenger bodies on pickup chassis. These days, everything from a Nissan Juke to a Porsche Cayenne on the Ugly Axis and from a Dacia Duster to a Landrover Defender on the Utility Axis is described as an SUV. It's about as useful as the word car at categorizing vehicles.

Agree that definition of "SUV" has been stretched beyond breaking point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_utility_vehicle

"Crossover" is becoming popular:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossover_(automobile)

Possibly, some people should be using crossover instead of SUV to describe certain makes and models.

fmcg_scribe

http://www.autonews.com/article/20141020/RETAIL03/310209839/ford-steers-c-max-ads-away-from-mpg

Cleveland Hot Pocket

What's your opinion?
IMO it is kinda silly to buy a ecocar if mpg isnt your focus! Otherwise what's the point, might as well buy a driver's car.

mikeecho

that 47mpg, is us gallons

converts to about 55mpg uk gallons

For that fuel economy, a 520d would be my choice over the ford

Anjobe

Interesting that Toyota only claims 51mpg for the Prius in the US. Converting between US and imperial gallons this equates to 61 mpg (imperial gallons), but they claim 72.4 mpg over here.

Anjobe

mikeecho wrote: »

that 47mpg, is us gallons

converts to about 55mpg uk gallons

For that fuel economy, a 520d would be my choice over the ford

Fair comment, and one that highlights the real reason for the existence of hybrids - Americans won't drive diesels. Having said that I suspect that, unlike here, manufacturers may be forced to claim realistic fuel consumption figures in the US.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Anjobe wrote: »

Fair comment, and one that highlights the real reason for the existence of hybrids - Americans won't drive diesels. Having said that I suspect that, unlike here, manufacturers may be forced to claim realistic fuel consumption figures in the US.

Some do, albeit less so in the car market.
Diesel pickup trucks (especially cummins powered ones) have a large following in the US.

Also the most recent Ram 1500 pickup was released with a downsized 3.0 v6 diesel in response to demand for economy. Diesel is taking off in the states due to their "high gas prices" of $3-$4 per (us) gallon. Approx $1 per litre in other words.

fmcg_scribe

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

What's your opinion?
IMO it is kinda silly to buy a ecocar if mpg isnt your focus! Otherwise what's the point, might as well buy a driver's car.

Looks as if Ford in the US is feeling sheepish about having to restate the mpg of the car and the revised figure does not look so good against the Prius.

Further, the recent drop in the price of gasoline in the US makes mpg somewhat less "important" to many car owners there.

fmcg_scribe

Anjobe wrote: »

Fair comment, and one that highlights the real reason for the existence of hybrids - Americans won't drive diesels. Having said that I suspect that, unlike here, manufacturers may be forced to claim realistic fuel consumption figures in the US.

Agreed - Americans have a lot of "consumer resistance" to diesels or at least diesel cars. That's why hybrid cars built by BMW and some other European car makers are really intended for the US market even though they are available to buy in Europe.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Agreed - Americans have a lot of "consumer resistance" to diesels or at least diesel cars. That's why hybrid cars built by BMW and some other European car makers are really intended for the US market even though they are available to buy in Europe.

In fairness, if you're used to driving a V8 or V6 petrol car and the refinement associated thus, it would be difficult to change to a diesel.

Also, with the cheap gas available in the US it doesn't really hit them in the pocket enough to make them change!

fmcg_scribe

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

In fairness, if you're used to driving a V8 or V6 petrol car and the refinement associated thus, it would be difficult to change to a diesel.

Also, with the cheap gas available in the US it doesn't really hit them in the pocket enough to make them change!

Agreed.

It's an arguable point but would Europeans be so into diesel if EU emissions standards hadn't nudged car makers and buyers to move from petrol?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Probably not.
Although the vast majority of the cars sold in the EU would not be v8/v6 cars that our Yank brethren are party to.
Petrol is generally almost double the US price in the EU, this combined with the stupid eu emissions blind focus made the mass switch to diesel inevitable.

BMJD

Anjobe wrote: »

Interesting that Toyota only claims 51mpg for the Prius in the US. Converting between US and imperial gallons this equates to 61 mpg (imperial gallons), but they claim 72.4 mpg over here.

that's for the Prius Plus, which is claimed to get 64.2 imp mpg

maybe fuel quality is a factor in the difference

fmcg_scribe

Lexus decided to drop out of the diesel arms race (the IS 220d was not a success), so its product strategy is hybrid and petrol (there were rumours a couple of years ago that that it would focus only on hybrids) and its sales in Europe are nowhere its sales in the US.

As part of its alliance with BMW, Toyota is selling certain models in Europe with BMW engines. I suppose that this could be interpreted as a back handed compliment to German car makers generally about the superiority of their diesels engines over (most) Asian ones.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

BMJD wrote: »

that's for the Prius Plus, which is claimed to get 64.2 imp mpg

maybe fuel quality is a factor in the difference

88-92 in the US versus the 95-98 standard in EU, would that account for the large difference in mpg ?

Cleveland Hot Pocket

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

Lexus decided to drop out of the diesel arms race (the IS 220d was not a success), so its product strategy is hybrid and petrol (there were rumours a couple of years ago that that it would focus only on hybrids) and its sales in Europe are nowhere its sales in the US.

As part of its alliance with BMW, Toyota is selling certain models in Europe with BMW engines. I suppose that this could be interpreted as a back handed compliment to German car makers generally about the superiority of their diesels engines over (most) Asian ones.

I mean, for motorway driving a diesel will perform better than a hybrid anyway. Different car for different functions.
Hybrids would be better for around town or that but for a 2 hour cruise at 110-120 kmh a diesel would usually beat a hybrid petrol. At that speed, hybrids normally are operating on the petrol engine. I know of a lad that has a prius as a taxi and gets nearly 50mpg around town.

fmcg_scribe

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

I mean, for motorway driving a diesel will perform better than a hybrid anyway. Different car for different functions.
Hybrids would be better for around town or that but for a 2 hour cruise at 110-120 kmh a diesel would usually beat a hybrid petrol. At that speed, hybrids normally are operating on the petrol engine. I know of a lad that has a prius as a taxi and gets nearly 50mpg around town.

Agreed. The decision not to have any diesel models in Europe means that Lexus loses out in company/fleet car sales, especially in the UK. That's a major hit to sales and means that brand has made itself into a niche brand.

A few years back, Toyota sold a lot of Prius cars around London and the South East of England because of the congestion charge in London. However, after some changes to the exemption rules, only full electric and plugin hybrids were exempt and in the meantime more electric and hybrid cars hit the market:
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/nissan/leaf/64775/london-congestion-charge-rules-tightened
http://www.carbuyer.co.uk/reviews/recommended/beat-londons-congestion-charge
https://www.tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/discounts-and-exemptions?intcmp=2133

jimgoose

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

88-92 in the US versus the 95-98 standard in EU, would that account for the large difference in mpg ?

AKI vs. RON. The actual octane ratings are much the same.

galwaytt

Anjobe wrote: »

....- Americans won't drive diesels.......

...no, Americans diesel is shyte, and most of it would destroy a modern diesel car's engine, pumps etc.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

galwaytt wrote: »

...no, Americans diesel is shyte, and most of it would destroy a modern diesel car's engine, pumps etc.

Interesting, I know of a forum in the US that has a lot of diesel bmw owners on it.

jimgoose

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Interesting, I know of a forum in the US that has a lot of diesel bmw owners on it.

There is some talk of the lubricity standards for American ULSD being a bit too high for some modern kit, though.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

jimgoose wrote: »

There is some talk of the lubricity standards for American ULSD being a bit too high for some modern kit, though.

Didnt the v10 TDI touareg sell a lot there, along with other modern diesels?
Initially in my post above I had written e60 bmw owners but I can't remember which model it was.

fmcg_scribe

galwaytt wrote: »

...no, Americans diesel is shyte, and most of it would destroy a modern diesel car's engine, pumps etc.

Seems that grade of diesel is critical in the US:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/lowsulfurdiesel.shtml

Some diesel car owners in the US also reckon that some brands of ULSD are better than others.