Bank disclosing credit card details to external company

pazza

Hi,
I recently had an issue with an Irish bank - where I had a lost Credit Card, and the upshot of the discussion at the time was I requested they close my credit card account. They advised that I needed to leave €30 in the account for the Stamp Duty (due the following year) - which I did. They sent me a replacement card (new number etc.) that I had requested them not to, and I immediately destroyed it.

Cut forward 4 months - and as I still have my current account, I noticed a charge on my credit card. So queried this with said bank - who said account was still active (despite my request). Anyway, the charge was for a service (anti-virus software) that I had previously purchased (last year) and was auto-renewed. I then checked My Account with the Anti-virus company - and they somehow have the latest credit card number and expirty date (that I certainly did not provide, as I forgot to cancel the AV as I no longer have the PC with it, since last Christmas).

Other online retailers that I had setup for payment from the credit card (Netflix and Amazon) had to contact me to say there was problem and I had to update with a separate new card (from a different bank)?

So how could the AV company have got my new credit card number and expiry date - is this legal (for banks to provide these)?

P

former legend

I have to say this sounds unlikely to the point of being impossible. A bank giving out your credit card number and expiry date? No, there must be some other explanation.

slimjimmc

I'll move this to Banking & Insurance & Pensions.

smcgiff

The bank seems to be at fault for not closing the account.

However, look at your old and new card. I suspect they are the same number, but a different end date on the second card. Has it just moved forward 2 years?

I'd suspect the AV company guessed your end date and used your old card details rather than your bank giving out your CC details (which makes no sense).

EDIT - I see you said there was a new number. Mmm, don't know so. But, still don't think it was given by the bank.

pazza

I cannot believe this either - only that it happened to me. This is not something I forgot as I bought a new PC last Christmas (that had its own AV on it), and while I forgot to cancel the one I had bought, would not have renewed or provided my updated credit card details to them (credit card was sent to me end June/early July) as I no longer wanted the service!

The card numbers are totally differernt and could not have been guessed!

I have raised this with the bank - and there are 2 issues:
1. They didn;t close the credit card account when requested;
2. I can only imagine that when the AV company looked for the annual payment, somehow they got the latest card number/details from the bank using some sort of old "account type" reference...thats all I can imagine! But even in my old age, I would not have provided the updated bank account number as I never intended to use the card (when it arrived in the post it was immediately cut up) and I had as of 6 months previosuly stopped using the AV service - so would not have looked to update!

????

pazza

former legend wrote: »

I have to say this sounds unlikely to the point of being impossible. A bank giving out your credit card number and expiry date? No, there must be some other explanation.

hi former legend, I would have been 100% in total agreement for what you are saying - until it happened to me. I asked the bank the same question when I was talking to them... I cannot think of any explanation as
1. I destroyed the card immediately when it arrived (and this was only record of card number)
2. Why would I update payment detials on a service I had forgot to cancel 6 months after I stopped using it?

Thoie

Did the AV company actually say "Your new card number is 1234 and the expiry date is 01/01"? Or did they say it's been updated, or something along those lines?

A subscription like that often works on direct debit, and the old and new card accounts are still linked in the bank somewhere, so if they applied for the annual DD, it would have moved from the old card to the new.

Amazon and Netflix may be processing things as individual CC transactions, which is why theirs wouldn't go through.

Every time I renew my card, there are some retailers who don't need me to update the details, and others who do - I always thought it was due to whether they are processing transactions or calling on a DD.

pazza

When I check my account with the AV it lists the card as in XXXX XXXX 1234 expiry 7/16.

I have just had contact from the AV company who have confirmed that "XXXX is enrolled in account updater services from Visa and MasterCard which provides XXXX with updated credit card information. This is not information that XXXX seeks out, this is information that is provided as a service by Visa and MasterCard. The customer's credit card information will only be updated if a customer maintains an account with the same financial institution that issued the previous card on file."

And they advised I need to take this up with my financial institution, so they were provided with my credit card details! I was not aware of this - and was surprised to see my card details sit on their system....

unclebill98

The bank will automatically pass on a DD to the new card number and update the data base accordingly.

The bank is at fault for not closing the account and should refund the charge and close the card off. You will then need to provide the
company with new payment details.

pazza

unclebill98 wrote: »

The bank will automatically pass on a DD to the new card number and update the data base accordingly.

The bank is at fault for not closing the account and should refund the charge and close the card off. You will then need to provide the
company with new payment details.

Hi - so a bank will automatically provide credit card details of a new card to an external organisation without my knowledge and consent? This does not seem right to me, while I do believe them at fault and to repay monies that were deducted, I still gave an issue with the notion if my credit card details being provided by my bank without my explicit consent. As this was a credit card, this does not appear online as one of my dd's to cancel. Interesting that payments to Netflix and Amazon could not be processed but they could to AV provide who btw when contacted sent me reference link to US regulations as to why they were entitled to get payment. I am not in the US, they told me to take that up with my car provider/financial institution.

Pablo1802

Customer should be responsible for cancelling direct debit on credit card and should make sure that credit card account is closed on his request on time.
No chance for refund in this case.

Nervous Wreck

Pablo1802 wrote: »

Customer should be responsible for cancelling direct debit on credit card and should make sure that credit card account is closed on his request on time.
No chance for refund in this case.

Further to this, as the company said, they are "enrolled in account updater services from Visa and MasterCard which provides XXXX with updated credit card information. This is not information that XXXX seeks out, this is information that is provided as a service by Visa and MasterCard." Your financial institution didn't provide the company with your new card details, the credit card company did. The reason for this is that you failed to cancel the direct debit, which was your responsibility to do.

Side-note: Even if you close your credit card without cancelling the DD, the DD originator is still within their rights to charge your card, which your bank may pay and pass the charge on to you. So, cancel your direct debits.

Pablo1802

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Side-note: Even if you close your credit card without cancelling the DD, the DD originator is still within their rights to charge your card, which your bank may pay and pass the charge on to you. So, cancel your direct debits.

It is definitely incorrect information.:eek:

If you instruct your bank/credit card provider to cancel your credit card (as a plastic card) then all future regular/recurring payments shall be returned unpaid.
It is almost impossible to make card payment on a cancelled card.
It does not matter if the credit card account is fully operational (a replacement card with a new card number may be issued to customer ) or it is closed.

A direct debit on credit card is applied to one particular credit card number.
If the card is due to expire a customer should be given a prior notice to update card details.

Cancelling credit card doesn't mean closing credit card account.

GerardKeating

Pablo1802 wrote: »

It is definitely incorrect information.:eek:
.

Not entirely,

When you close an cc account, one is still liable for any transactions that were authorised before the account closed, but not yet presented.

From the era of paper based transactions, merchants have up to six month to present a transaction in certain cases.

recurring authorization could fall under this.

pazza

Hi - all interesting information - while I accept that I should have cencelled the DD; note - this is an annual payment, so the last time it left my account was October 2013 and as the bank statement online go back 6 months only AND this does not appear in my list of DD on my online system AND as I no longer had the PC with the AV, I forgot about this. So if I had been charged on my ORIGINAL card number - I accept this was my issue totally.

However as the card was reported lost - I would have thought the bank would have protected my future regular payments where I had provided external organisations with my card number (as they did with Netflix and Amazon who contacted me to say that they could no longer use the card they had on file and for me to udpate my payment details). BUT if there was some sort of unique transaction code that allowed the AV company to deduct the money, I think this is poor on behalf of the bank, surprising, but ...

However the real issue I have is that the AV company have my replacement card details on their system (i.e. new number and expiry date) that I did not give them, so the provision of the details of my card was by the bank. So now that I know for fact that the bank sent my replacement card details to an external organisation - I am a little perturbed by this. I though the whole card security area was that we (the customer) are the only ones that provide card details (i.e. number and expiry date) and the bank would never send these, but not the case and this is the worry!

Sorry for the rant - but this is a total surprise (when you focus on the simple fact of a bank providing MY card details to an external organisation).

Pablo1802

GerardKeating wrote: »

Not entirely,

When you close an cc account, one is still liable for any transactions that were authorised before the account closed, but not yet presented.

From the era of paper based transactions, merchants have up to six month to present a transaction in certain cases.

recurring authorization could fall under this.

"then ALL future regular/recurring payments shall be returned unpaid."

Of course all previously made transactions before cancellation date are due to be paid.

gctest50

its just auto update - very useful saves your software expiring

http://usa.visa.com/merchants/grow-your-business/processing-solutions/account-updater.jsp

pazza wrote: »

Hi - all interesting information - while I accept that I should have cencelled the DD; note - this is an annual payment, so the last time it left my account was October 2013 and as the bank statement online go back 6 months only AND this does not appear in my list of DD on my online system AND as I no longer had the PC with the AV, I forgot about this. So if I had been charged on my ORIGINAL card number - I accept this was my issue totally.

However as the card was reported lost - I would have thought the bank would have protected my future regular payments where I had provided external organisations with my card number (as they did with Netflix and Amazon who contacted me to say that they could no longer use the card they had on file and for me to udpate my payment details). BUT if there was some sort of unique transaction code that allowed the AV company to deduct the money, I think this is poor on behalf of the bank, surprising, but ...

However the real issue I have is that the AV company have my replacement card details on their system (i.e. new number and expiry date) that I did not give them, so the provision of the details of my card was by the bank. So now that I know for fact that the bank sent my replacement card details to an external organisation - I am a little perturbed by this. I though the whole card security area was that we (the customer) are the only ones that provide card details (i.e. number and expiry date) and the bank would never send these, but not the case and this is the worry!

Sorry for the rant - but this is a total surprise (when you focus on the simple fact of a bank providing MY card details to an external organisation).

pazza

gctest50 wrote: »

its just auto update - very useful saves your software expiring

http://usa.visa.com/merchants/grow-your-business/processing-solutions/account-updater.jsp

Not my view, I would rather the Netflix model i.e. please update your payment details. They all look to renew in plenty of time before the service renewal, so the software would not expire with a "payment is due" message. Would feel this is preferable than having a bank sending my details without my knowledge/consent (or course I am sure that can refer to page 53 paragraph 3 subsection 2.65 that allows them to do this...nice and clear).

mocata

Its called a "continuous payment authority" in the UK. The 3rd party can take their money come what may, and not much you or the bank can do about it.

GerardKeating

pazza wrote: »

Sorry for the rant - but this is a total surprise (when you focus on the simple fact of a bank providing MY card details to an external organisation).

Your Bank might not have provided any details to the "external organisation", a previously authorised transaction was presented one your old account number, and they forwarded it to your new account.

pazza

GerardKeating wrote: »

Your Bank might not have provided any details to the "external organisation", a previously authorised transaction was presented one your old account number, and they forwarded it to your new account.

Sorry - but when I can login to "My Account" on the "external organisation" and see my new card details there - this is not about a previously authorised transaction, this is "they have my credit card number in full" - so someone gave it to them.

Goat the dote

According to what you posted above it's nothing to do with your bank-it's MasterCard/visa themselves.

Even if your account was closed this would still come through on the closed account, it's a 3rd party subscription, your card is the payment method, it's between you and the AV company.
The bank can issue notice to the AV company that in future it won't honour any further transactions but it was YOUR responsibility to ensure any dd's or subs were cancelled.
Also if you received cards out would you not have called to query it?

The closure/non closure/error of the bank is irrelevant in relation to this transaction.