To vrt or not to vrt

Refu

Hi guys, I just bought a 03 530d with NI reg plates. Now... I want to vrt it, tax it and of course nct it. I did few checks myself to see what's the story with this vrt thing. Well first of all the car needs to go to an nct verification and register it for vrt for which you have 30 days to pay it. All of these have been done by the previous owner HERE in Ireland. But the 30 days have passed. Now, my question is: do I still have 30 days to vrt it OR am i going to pay the arrears by the time i will pay the vrt itself?!?!?!?!?! Ohhhh... and is there any possible way to pay less money for the vrt on this car? It's roughly 1100 euros.

ironclaw

Refu wrote: »

is there any possible way to pay less money for the vrt on this car? It's roughly 1100 euros.

That would be tax avoidance.

Frankly I haven't a breeze why you bought an NI registered car without a notion of the procedure required to make it road legal here

Did you get the VLC etc? Was the 'owner' based in the RoI? Frankly I'd be suspect of a RoI owner selling a NI registered car in the RoI. You'd kinda question why they had it here on NI plates, unless they lived in the border regions or used work in NI.

corktina

So the guy went through the VRT process and didn't pay? It's a mess, he wasn't entitled to sell it to you, I suggest you ask the NCTS. The VRT has been assessed and will still have to be paid, plus the penalty, which is fairly small anyway.

bazz26

I'd imagine if the car was already VRT inspected and the 30 days have passed then there are probably VRT fines incurred along with the VRT fee. Really is crazy not doing more research on this prior to buying.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

Another reason not to buy a non reg'd car here.
Allow the owner to VRT it - there's usually a reason they don't VRT it. Non reg'd cars are sold cheap for a reason.

kona

bazz26 wrote: »

I'd imagine if the car was already VRT inspected and the 30 days have passed then there are probably VRT fines incurred along with the VRT fee. Really is crazy not doing more research on this prior to buying.

There are and he's gunna get rode on tax, I'd get it vrt ASAP.

PauloMN

Refu wrote: »

Hi guys, I just bought a 03 530d with NI reg plates. Now... I want to vrt it, tax it and of course nct it. I did few checks myself to see what's the story with this vrt thing. Well first of all the car needs to go to an nct verification and register it for vrt for which you have 30 days to pay it. All of these have been done by the previous owner HERE in Ireland. But the 30 days have passed. Now, my question is: do I still have 30 days to vrt it OR am i going to pay the arrears by the time i will pay the vrt itself?!?!?!?!?! Ohhhh... and is there any possible way to pay less money for the vrt on this car? It's roughly 1100 euros.

Given that you don't want to pay the VRT amount due on the care, are you aware of how much the motor tax will be on that car? Almost €1500 per annum if I have the engine size correct.

ironclaw wrote: »

That would be tax avoidance.

Well it would be tax evasion rather than tax avoidance imo. Avoidance can be legal, the only way to evade or partially evade VRT would be by fraud.

arthur daly

You have to have it booked within 10days of entering the country and it has to be registered in 30.
You only take responsibility for the car from date of purchase and are not required to back date it.

Seen as the car really only came from the north there would be now way to produce a ferry ticket so hard to really prove when it arrived in the south.
I would register is asap all the garda have to do is check the insurance on the car and BOOM they know how long you have it from the start date and it's bye bye.

Marcusm

arthur daly wrote: »

You have to have it booked within 10days of entering the country and it has to be registered in 30.
You only take responsibility for the car from date of purchase and are not required to back date it.

Seen as the car really only came from the north there would be now way to produce a ferry ticket so hard to really prove when it arrived in the south.
I would register is asap all the garda have to do is check the insurance on the car and BOOM they know how long you have it from the start date and it's bye bye.

The requirement to register rises on importation and 30 days' thence is the date from which the VRT is due. In some circumstances, this might not be apparent to Revenue but as is stated (unclearly) in the OP, the importer has already subjected it to the NCT inspection and has made the registration application - he simply hasn't completed it. The car is now in the system and, absent a massive feck up, the interest would have to be paid for the registration to go through.

The OP is very naive to purchase a car in these circumstances.

barneyrubble46

Refu this is what you do, firstly write yourself out a receipt or you may already have one when you purchased the car, you do not need any other proof of purchase, of course you do not need a ferry ticket this is why you need a receipt, you take it to the vrt centre based of course at the nct centre and tell them you just bought the car from northern ireland, you will need a export cert, easy to get, this way the date of export will appear on the cert, so if you bought the car last week say so on the export cert, however if you have the log/tax book that should do, this is not tax evasion. Secondly you need to pay the vrt then appeal the amount, not enough time in this thread to explain that one, good luck

barneyrubble46

OP is not naive at all, stupid yes. but we all make mistakes in life, some more expensive than others. Life is an experience simple!!

daRobot

>OP

Please tell me that this is an e60 that you bought? Otherwise paying over 1k for VRT will make it a very expensive e39.

The only way you can make the vrt cheaper is to wait until the new year to register it, and write your own receipt before bringing it in.

Taylor365

Ship it off to England while you can!

scamalert

Its plain business that there is no vrt on the car,donedeal if full of them,people see good car,since most uk/ni are most times loaded with better extras/maintained its business for some to go over buy it bring it back here and find a buyer while making small profit,without bothering with all vrt/tax as that cuts into profits big time. So the question remains how did op bought himself 3l car knowing that tax alone is 1500e and is worried about paying grand or so to get it on the road ? Theres thread with luxobarges on here with plenty temptations,but everyone knows that as cheap most cars are they are being sold because of high tax/insurance fuel cost,not to mention servicing costs. My guess would be he got it really cheap and jumped at opportunity-taking whole maths aside until reality kicks in.

arthur daly

Marcusm wrote: »

The requirement to register rises on importation and 30 days' thence is the date from which the VRT is due. In some circumstances, this might not be apparent to Revenue but as is stated (unclearly) in the OP, the importer has already subjected it to the NCT inspection and has made the registration application - he simply hasn't completed it. The car is now in the system and, absent a massive feck up, the interest would have to be paid for the registration to go through.

The OP is very naive to purchase a car in these circumstances.

The new owner is only required to pay Vrt from date of purchase,interest from previous owner won't be included..

arthur daly

Marcusm wrote: »

The requirement to register rises on importation and 30 days' thence is the date from which the VRT is due. In some circumstances, this might not be apparent to Revenue but as is stated (unclearly) in the OP, the importer has already subjected it to the NCT inspection and has made the registration application - he simply hasn't completed it. The car is now in the system and, absent a massive feck up, the interest would have to be paid for the registration to go through.

The OP is very naive to purchase a car in these circumstances.

The new owner is only required to pay Vrt from date of purchase,interest from previous owner won't be included..

Marcusm

arthur daly wrote: »

The new owner is only required to pay Vrt from date of purchase,interest from previous owner won't be included..

If you'd like to point me to the provisions of Finance Act 1992, Finance (No 2) Act 1992 and subsequent regulations and amending legislation to support that proposition, I'd be interested in reviewing it. The legislation is not framed in that manner - you may be confusing it with Motor Tax.

THe biggest issue for the OP here is that the car is on Revenue's radar having been recorded on their system. Had it simply been run around Ireland for a number of months and never officially recorded, he might get away with what you are suggesting.

Cleveland Hot Pocket

arthur daly wrote: »

The new owner is only required to pay Vrt from date of purchase,interest from previous owner won't be included..

Technically VRT is due from date of import, not date of purchase.
This is because in most cases (Except from dealers with a TAN) it is illegal to buy an unreg'd car here.

slimjimmc

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Technically VRT is due from date of import, not date of purchase.
This is because in most cases (Except from dealers with a TAN) it is illegal to buy an unreg'd car here.

Isn't it illegal to sell but not illegal to buy? It's an important difference from the OP's point of view.

mgbgt1978

Cleveland Hot Pocket wrote: »

Technically VRT is due from date of import, not date of purchase.
This is because in most cases (Except from dealers with a TAN) it is illegal to buy an unreg'd car here.

You cannot buy an 'unreg'd' car from a Dealer with a TAN number.
They can only complete the handover once they have registered the Car here.
Obviously they can show the car For Sale without it being registered, but they are certainly not allowed to sell it until they have registered it here.

Maybe that's what you meant.....but just clarifying it.

pablo128

Jaysus, all he has to do is say he bought it off a fella up the North. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the previous owner declined to pay the vrt and brought it back up to the North.

vinnie13

Marcusm wrote: »

If you'd like to point me to the provisions of Finance Act 1992, Finance (No 2) Act 1992 and subsequent regulations and amending legislation to support that proposition, I'd be interested in reviewing it. The legislation is not framed in that manner - you may be confusing it with Motor Tax.

THe biggest issue for the OP here is that the car is on Revenue's radar having been recorded on their system. Had it simply been run around Ireland for a number of months and never officially recorded, he might get away with what you are suggesting.

the new owner is only required to pay the vrt from the day they bought it not any pervious fees racked up by past owners.
it all changed a year or so ago.

there is not a chance op could be hit with past fees but i would like to see where you got your info if you have any links

Marcusm

slimjimmc wrote: »

Isn't it illegal to sell but not illegal to buy? It's an important difference from the OP's point of view.

It is neither illegal to sell nor illegal to buy an unregistered/unVRT'd vehicle in Ireland. For an imported vehicle, the clock runs from importation to 30 days and thereafter penalties apply except in the case of registered dealers with TAN numbers.

The fact that the tax is due and interest/penalties apply is generally sufficient as unregistered cars (ie those purporting to display foreign registrations which might no longer be valid) can be seized by Customs or persons authorised by Customs.

The OP's only "crime" is to continue to drive an unregistered vehicle.

Marcusm

pablo128 wrote: »

Jaysus, all he has to do is say he bought it off a fella up the North. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that the previous owner declined to pay the vrt and brought it back up to the North.

except that the original owner by presenting it for registration will have admitted to having imported it and also asserted that he was resident in Ireland.

Marcusm

vinnie13 wrote: »

the new owner is only required to pay the vrt from the day they bought it not any pervious fees racked up by past owners.
it all changed a year or so ago.

there is not a chance op could be hit with past fees but i would like to see where you got your info if you have any links

There are no fees (there is interest and there are penalties) and what changed a year or so ago is Motor Tax not VRT.

vinnie13

Marcusm wrote: »

There are no fees (there is interest and there are penalties) and what changed a year or so ago is Motor Tax not VRT.

it does not apply to a new owner,can you provide a link to back this up as it is false

Marcusm

vinnie13 wrote: »

it does not apply to a new owner,can you provide a link to back this up as it is false

Continuously asserting that it is false without any back up is hilarious. If you'd like to follow this link, you'll find the legislation together with Revenue guidance for VRT. The law is drafted in terms of the requirements to register the vehicle. There is no express preclusion for the sins of a previous owner; I repeat, this is not Motor Tax, it is VRT.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/

vinnie13

Marcusm wrote: »

Continuously asserting that it is false without any back up is hilarious. If you'd like to follow this link, you'll find the legislation together with Revenue guidance for VRT. The law is drafted in terms of the requirements to register the vehicle. There is no express preclusion for the sins of a previous owner; I repeat, this is not Motor Tax, it is VRT.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/

your link is the main page whick links to a mass of different pages please give a direct link to what you are claiming.
there were changes made to VRT I AM NOT MIXING IT WITH MOTOR TAX!!!!

i repeat the new owner is only responsible from the day of purchase i suggest you ring revenue if yu have a problem with this.

i registered a old land rover a while ago that had been in ireland for years,i only paid vrt from when i bought it.

corktina

you are confused. The vehicle has already been declared to the NCTS/revenue, and thus VRT will be payable from the date declared as imported. What you are referring to is that the NCTS will accept a handwritten and dated receipt as proof of date of import. That isn't the case here, as the previous owner has already declared it.

vinnie13

corktina wrote: »

you are confused. The vehicle has already been declared to the NCTS/revenue, and thus VRT will be payable from the date declared as imported. What you are referring to is that the NCTS will accept a handwritten and dated receipt as proof of date of import. That isn't the case here, as the previous owner has already declared it.

i am still not seeing anything to prove this

pablo128

corktina wrote: »

you are confused. The vehicle has already been declared to the NCTS/revenue, and thus VRT will be payable from the date declared as imported. What you are referring to is that the NCTS will accept a handwritten and dated receipt as proof of date of import. That isn't the case here, as the previous owner has already declared it.

With all due respect, so what? Does that mean the previous owner couldn't change their mind and bring it back to Northern Ireland and sell it up there?
By getting the vrt quotation, that's not the same as registering the car here. It would still be registered in the north.

Marcusm

vinnie13 wrote: »

your link is the main page whick links to a mass of different pages please give a direct link to what you are claiming.
there were changes made to VRT I AM NOT MIXING IT WITH MOTOR TAX!!!!

i repeat the new owner is only responsible from the day of purchase i suggest you ring revenue if yu have a problem with this.

i registered a old land rover a while ago that had been in ireland for years,i only paid vrt from when i bought it.

I directed you to the manuals and the legislation both of which are PDF files which are difficult to link directly.

You may very well have bought an old Land Rover which had been in the country for years and I doubt that you disclosed that fact to NCTS/Revenue but rather provided them with evidence of a recent purchase. The OP does not have that luxury as Revenue/NCTS are already aware of the car. The VRT runs from the date of importation and the VRT must before before the car can be registered. Is this clear? THe only person who needs to have it registered is the OP and therefore he would need to pay the back dated VRT or no registration will be forthcoming. Is this clear? There is no general resetting of the liability. On 1 November, it will be 25 years since I commenced working in professional tax practice in Ireland.

Marcusm

pablo128 wrote: »

With all due respect, so what? Does that mean the previous owner couldn't change their mind and bring it back to Northern Ireland and sell it up there?
By getting the vrt quotation, that's not the same as registering the car here. It would still be registered in the north.

On purchase by an Irish resident, the UK seller will have notified DVA (NI) (as it then was) by letter of the sale to a foreign resident. The car is then removed from the NI register. Otherwise, the previous owner would continue to receive notifications asking him to pay Vehicle Tax and would by now have been taken to court. From that point it is no longer registered in the North. They would expect, in due course, to be notified by Revenue of its entry onto the Irish register - which may include a return by Revenue of the V5C.

If it was brought back to NI, it would need to be reregistered there if the UK process had been completed.

NIMAN

No sign of the OP, replies must have scared him off!

galwaytt

Marcusm wrote: »

Continuously asserting that it is false without any back up is hilarious. If you'd like to follow this link, you'll find the legislation together with Revenue guidance for VRT. The law is drafted in terms of the requirements to register the vehicle. There is no express preclusion for the sins of a previous owner; I repeat, this is not Motor Tax, it is VRT.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/

fwiw, I bought an uk reg vehicle here about 2 years ago. Ownver had obviously changed their minds since bringing it in, and left it sit.

I bought it, got receipts and booked my own NCT inspection - only to be told then that it had already been booked for an NCT inspection some...6 ? 9 ? months previously, but had never been presented for the actual inspection.....sounds like the OP's position ??

Anyhoo, on the day, I turned up, showed receipts from the previous week of buying it - with the Irish address of the seller on it - and all they did was take the due VRT amount. There were no fines or penalties , to me at any rate.

People are over-thinking this imho.

NIMAN

Is it not illegal to sell a UK reg car in Ireland?
I thought I heard that the seller had to change the plates before selling? Or was that just foe dealers as opposed to private sellers?

Marcusm

galwaytt wrote: »

fwiw, I bought an uk reg vehicle here about 2 years ago. Ownver had obviously changed their minds since bringing it in, and left it sit.

I bought it, got receipts and booked my own NCT inspection - only to be told then that it had already been booked for an NCT inspection some...6 ? 9 ? months previously, but had never been presented for the actual inspection.....sounds like the OP's position ??

Anyhoo, on the day, I turned up, showed receipts from the previous week of buying it - with the Irish address of the seller on it - and all they did was take the due VRT amount. There were no fines or penalties , to me at any rate.

People are over-thinking this imho.

My reading of the original post was that it was presented for inspection but VRT was not paid. The inspection is evidence of it having been imported. In your case there was no vidence, anyone could book an inspection fir a particular foreign reg even without owning it never mind having imported it such that Revenue could not have succeeded in levying the VRT or penalties unless they had evidence of it being in the State.

corktina

galwaytt wrote: »

fwiw, I bought an uk reg vehicle here about 2 years ago. Ownver had obviously changed their minds since bringing it in, and left it sit.

I bought it, got receipts and booked my own NCT inspection - only to be told then that it had already been booked for an NCT inspection some...6 ? 9 ? months previously, but had never been presented for the actual inspection.....sounds like the OP's position ??

Anyhoo, on the day, I turned up, showed receipts from the previous week of buying it - with the Irish address of the seller on it - and all they did was take the due VRT amount. There were no fines or penalties , to me at any rate.

People are over-thinking this imho.

that's slightly different as this guy actually went through the VRT process but didn't pay up. The vehicle is in a sort of limbo now.

arthur daly

galwaytt wrote: »

fwiw, I bought an uk reg vehicle here about 2 years ago. Ownver had obviously changed their minds since bringing it in, and left it sit.

I bought it, got receipts and booked my own NCT inspection - only to be told then that it had already been booked for an NCT inspection some...6 ? 9 ? months previously, but had never been presented for the actual inspection.....sounds like the OP's position ??

Anyhoo, on the day, I turned up, showed receipts from the previous week of buying it - with the Irish address of the seller on it - and all they did was take the due VRT amount. There were no fines or penalties , to me at any rate.

People are over-thinking this imho.

Thanks for this reply,I bet there are at least 2 feeling pretty stupid about their all knowing rants

Haha

Hole in one or what

arthur daly

galwaytt wrote: »

fwiw, I bought an uk reg vehicle here about 2 years ago. Ownver had obviously changed their minds since bringing it in, and left it sit.

I bought it, got receipts and booked my own NCT inspection - only to be told then that it had already been booked for an NCT inspection some...6 ? 9 ? months previously, but had never been presented for the actual inspection.....sounds like the OP's position ??

Anyhoo, on the day, I turned up, showed receipts from the previous week of buying it - with the Irish address of the seller on it - and all they did was take the due VRT amount. There were no fines or penalties , to me at any rate.

People are over-thinking this imho.

Thanks for this reply,I bet there are at least 2 feeling pretty stupid about their all knowing rants

Haha

Hole in one or what

corktina

ya, as opposed to feeling stupid about posting twice....?

arthur daly

corktina wrote: »

ya, as opposed to feeling stupid about posting twice....?

Well that sure told me.
Suck it up and be a adult about it.
you were wrong

arthur daly

corktina wrote: »

ya, as opposed to feeling stupid about posting twice....?

Well that sure told me.
Suck it up and be a adult about it.
you were wrong

Marcusm

arthur daly wrote: »

Thanks for this reply,I bet there are at least 2 feeling pretty stupid about their all knowing rants

Haha

Hole in one or what

Other more appropriate aphorisms might include

One swallow does not make a summer

And

Empty vessels make most noise.

arthur daly

Marcusm wrote: »

Other more appropriate aphorisms might include

One swallow does not make a summer

And

Empty vessels make most noise.

And that made you feel better did it?

corktina

arthur daly wrote: »

Well that sure told me.
Suck it up and be a adult about it.
you were wrong

I'm not wrong. As I pointed put to TT, that case is different because this car has already been assessed for VRT , and it hasn't been paid. Oh and double post again. :-)

corktina

Marcusm wrote: »

Other more appropriate aphorisms might include

One swallow does not make a summer

And

Empty vessels make most noise.

two more swallows maybe in this case....

vinnie13

corktina wrote: »

I'm not wrong. As I pointed put to TT, that case is different because this car has already been assessed for VRT , and it hasn't been paid. Oh and double post again. :-)

i think its funny you are still trying to argue this one,your just digging that hole deeper ;( you are wrong and gave bad advice.just admit it!!
i hope op does come back after vrt with the final result.

Marcusm

corktina wrote: »

two more swallows maybe in this case....

Funny that after you posted this, Statler decided to rejoin the thread with his friend Waldorf and continue to carp from the sidelines. He doesn't seem to have identified the change in law that he asserts happened last year. Maybe 24 hours was not long enough...

corktina

vinnie13 wrote: »

i think its funny you are still trying to argue this one,your just digging that hole deeper ;( you are wrong and gave bad advice.just admit it!!
i hope op does come back after vrt with the final result.

The case galwayTT quotes is of a car booked in but not inspected. The one in the case we are discussing was inspected and assessed for VRT but it wasn't paid. Chalk and cheese. There's a subtle but significant difference.

mgbgt1978

Funny how the Op signed up last January, waited until now for his 1st post,and hasn't been online here since 15 minutes after writing his 1st post.

.......EVERYBODY OUT. IT'S A TRAP ! ! !