Degrees for banking?

TheBiz

I'm 17, in 5th year and it hope to go into a career in banking when I'm older (which exact area I am not sure) and from what I've seen and heard UCD is really my best bet for starting such a career.
What degrees would be my best options for a strong possibility to work in the area of investment banking, hedge funds, brokerages or other such areas.

Now I do have one downfall, I am not doing higher level maths, solely because I cannot wrap my head around algebra, coordinate geometry or other such areas, that being said I've a strong aptitude in areas such as statistics, probabilities, ratios etc.

Thanks for any help!

diograis

If you're not doing higher level maths, perhaps working in an investment bank isn't for you.
Could be wrong though, I only know people studying maths in uni who are going for this type of thing!

TheBiz

diograis wrote: »

If you're not doing higher level maths, perhaps working in an investment bank isn't for you.
Could be wrong though, I only know people studying maths in uni who are going for this type of thing!

My aunt works in an investment bank a she studied music! And said she hated maths with a passion haha!
I realise not doing HL maths is a huge disadvantage but that is solely because with what I am good at and what I am bad at there is no way I could take the risk of doing higher level and simply hoping the sections I could get 100% in comes up.. (There's the probability kicking in )

Kiltennel

diograis wrote: »

If you're not doing higher level maths, perhaps working in an investment bank isn't for you.
Could be wrong though, I only know people studying maths in uni who are going for this type of thing!

It is entirely dependent on the division. Sales & Trading (more so Trading), Structuring, and Strats requires a very high level of quantitative ability. Investment Banking and Equity Research is a lot more straightforward.

OP if you're not doing maths you can't do Economics and Finance. This is definitely the strongest course for working in banking. That said you can still study Commerce and Business & Law. Commerce has the benefit of allowing you to do a year-long internship which both Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs participate in meaning you could potentially secure a relevant placement there (There is currently a Commerce student working in Fixed Income trading in Morgan Stanley for their placement). If you couldn't secure a role with either MS or GS (extremely competitive for both) there's still several other participating companies where you can gain relevant experience (SIG for trading, EY, Deloitte, and KPMG for Corporate Finance)

BESS in Trinity also has a pretty good history of students getting into Investment Banking roles. Certainly a course to take into consideration too.

TheBiz

Kiltennel wrote: »

It is entirely dependent on the division. Sales & Trading (more so Trading), Structuring, and Strats requires a very high level of quantitative ability. Investment Banking and Equity Research is a lot more straightforward.

OP if you're not doing maths you can't do Economics and Finance. This is definitely the strongest course for working in banking. That said you can still study Commerce and Business & Law. Commerce has the benefit of allowing you to do a year-long internship which both Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs participate in meaning you could potentially secure a relevant placement there (There is currently a Commerce student working in Fixed Income trading in Morgan Stanley for their placement). If you couldn't secure a role with either MS or GS (extremely competitive for both) there's still several other participating companies where you can gain relevant experience (SIG for trading, EY, Deloitte, and KPMG for Corporate Finance)

BESS in Trinity also has a pretty good history of students getting into Investment Banking roles. Certainly a course to take into consideration too.

Thanks as I said I know not doing higher level maths is going to make this into an uphill battle..
I actually looked up about BESS in TCD and it does seem like a very good course and something I would not only enjoy but something I could potentially thrive in.

When you say extremely competitive, what do you mean? As in 1 in the course or 1 in every blue moon?

Raspberry Fileds

OP, saying you're interested in "banking" suggests you aren't especially familiar with Investment Banking and the various divisions. If I'm wrong, in which are you interested? As said, Sales is mathematically intensive, but no Front Office division of an IB does not require good numeracy.

The question about which degree is best is asked a lot. I disagree with Kiltennel when s/he says E&F is the "strongest" for getting a career in finance: its sucess is part a consequence of the interests of its graduates and partly the high entry-standard rather than something unique about the course, IMO. All but a tiny minority of those who do Commerce do not not go into IBanking, with a sizeable cohort going to the professional service firms - PWC, EY, etc. I must confess to being surprised and sceptical that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are involved with the nine-month Quinn internships. If they are, competition would be fierce for what would be guaranteed to be only a handful of places - those doing the mathematically-intensive economics stream of commerce would be at an advantage. Therefore, I would not do Commerce just because of the slim possibilty of an IB internship thorugh Quinn.

From all my research and having been to several career events, by far the most important factor in the academics side of your application is how well you do in your degree. A first in English would almost always trump a II.I in E&F. Therefore, do that at which you can be most successful.

I would strongly suggest that you heavily research Investment Banking. Start with this Economist article!

Kiltennel

TheBiz wrote: »

Thanks as I said I know not doing higher level maths is going to make this into an uphill battle..
I actually looked up about BESS in TCD and it does seem like a very good course and something I would not only enjoy but something I could potentially thrive in.

When you say extremely competitive, what do you mean? As in 1 in the course or 1 in every blue moon?

Extremely competitive in "Once in a Blue Moon" way, he was the first person out of Commerce to get a placement there. It's only their 2nd year participating in the programme though.

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

OP, saying you're interested in "banking" suggests you aren't especially familiar with Investment Banking and the various divisions. If I'm wrong, in which are you interested? As said, Sales is mathematically intensive, but no Front Office division of an IB does not require good numeracy.

The question about which degree is best is asked a lot. I disagree with Kiltennel when s/he says E&F is the "strongest" for getting a career in finance: its sucess is part a consequence of the interests of its graduates and partly the high entry-standard rather than something unique about the course, IMO. All but a tiny minority of those who do Commerce do not not go into IBanking, with a sizeable cohort going to the professional service firms - PWC, EY, etc. I must confess to being surprised and sceptical that Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley are involved with the nine-month Quinn internships. If they are, competition would be fierce for what would be guaranteed to be only a handful of places - those doing the mathematically-intensive economics stream of commerce would be at an advantage. Therefore, I would not do Commerce just because of the slim possibilty of an IB internship thorugh Quinn.

From all my research and having been to several career events, by far the most important factor in the academics side of your application is how well you do in your degree. A first in English would almost always trump a II.I in E&F. Therefore, do that at which you can be most successful.

I would strongly suggest that you heavily research Investment Banking. Start with this Economist article!

I'm not looking to pick a fight with you but a "First in English" is relatively useless when you're sitting across from an Analyst who is asking you to walk them through a Discounted Cash Flow Analysis (Basic question that will come up in most interviews) and questions relating to markets knowledge such as pitch me a stock / where will the FTSE be in 6 months time? Feel free to be sceptical if you wish on MS and GS's involvement, it's true. Barclays also participate in it but that is for their Corporate Banking group. This is their second year participating in the programme and the first year it was advertised to the students (Prior to Christmas as Placement applications for MS / GS closed much earlier than the traditional Placement applications).

Regardless of what internship / placement programme you apply to OP with the Bulge Bracket investment banks the number of places on offer are incredibly slim in comparison to applications. For GS last summer they had 17,000 applications for 350 spots. If you look at the graduates of UCD going into front office roles in Investment Banking (Easily done so on LinkedIn) the vast majority are coming from Commerce, Economics, Business & Law, and Economics & Finance while Actuarial & Financial Maths studies places strongly into Trading. The number of Arts students going into front office roles in Investment Banks (Not including the BA in Economics in this) is negligible in comparison. That said, a smaller contingent will be applying to these roles. If you do an Arts degree you will have a harder time proving a genuine passion for pursuing a career in an Investment Bank which will be heavily probed at interview stage.

McKrab

If you're interested in going to a top Investment Bank it wont matter what degree you have. I was in JP Morgan for a Spring Week in Investment Banking in April and about half of the people there were doing a non-Finance related degree. The only benefit of doing a Finance degree (I'm doing Ec&Fi by the way) was that you didn't have to prove your interest in Finance as much as others might. All of the top places provide really comprehensive training before you actually start working there.

That said, if you want to stay in Ireland or you don't quite have the ability for the top UK banks, a quantitative/related degree is much more important.

robman60

I'd say Economics and Finance would be your best course bet if you're interested in investment banking. This will be a huge ask for you though if you're not doing HL maths as the points were 580 last year. You can do it in NUIM too I think. 430 points or thereabouts.

I would be wary of pursuing this course if you're not capable for LC higher level. From what I've heard it's much more challenging than LC maths, even from the early stages.

Raspberry Fileds

robman60 wrote: »

I'd say Economics and Finance would be your best course bet if you're interested in investment banking. This will be a huge ask for you though if you're not doing HL maths as the points were 580 last year. You can do it in NUIM too I think. 430 points or thereabouts.

I would be wary of pursuing this course if you're not capable for LC higher level. From what I've heard it's much more challenging than LC maths, even from the early stages.

On what basis would you say it's the best bet? "Investment Banking", ironically, is only one of several activities of an investment bank.

Higher LC maths is a requirement for Econ and Finance. Only those with v. good grades from E&F stand a chance of getting into IBanking; only those with v. good maths stand a chance of getting a top grade.

Once more, do whatever in which you'll get a first (ideally with a bit of maths involved).

@kiltennel: I responded to your post, but it got lost in the ether. I hate rewriting posts!

Kiltennel

Raspberry Fileds wrote: »

On what basis would you say it's the best bet? "Investment Banking", ironically, is only one of several activities of an investment bank.

Higher LC maths is a requirement for Econ and Finance. Only those with v. good grades from E&F stand a chance of getting into IBanking; only those with v. good maths stand a chance of getting a top grade.

Once more, do whatever in which you'll get a first (ideally with a bit of maths involved).

@kiltennel: I responded to your post, but it got lost in the ether. I hate rewriting posts!

This. Do a course you'll enjoy OP, which involves some element of quantitative modules. I wouldn't look at Ec & Fi Maynooth as previously mentioned (or DIT), none of the Investment Banks recruit on campus there and if you look at placement of students after finishing their degree, it is very poor in comparison to UCD / TCD as UCD / TCD are target schools for several of the banks.

OP do you have an idea in what you'd genuinely like to study? If it's not directly finance related you can still show a passion for finance by getting involved in relevant university societies such as Student Managed Funds / Investor Societies. Also, through the UCD Elective programme you could study a completely unrelated degree and still study 2 accounting / finance modules a year to prove genuine interest to an employer.