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HP - Upfront Payment before order ?

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  • 19-10-2014 7:52pm
    #1
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭


    Hi, I've been asked for up front payment for the Heat Pump by the installer. Its fair to say that the installer is not part of the company that sells the unit (Danfoss) but I thought it odd that upfront payment was required and wanted to get input from anyone who may have purchased in recent years or is in the process already. There is a 5 year warrenty so I should'nt be worried but 100% upfront payment is'nt sitting well. Even the windows where only 15% of cost upfront. Any and all comments welcomed.


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    #2
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Crazy! No decent self respecting or solvent installer would ask for 100% upfront.
    A decent well financed installer would get credit from the supplier so no need for upfront payment.
    Likely he will need some kind of installer training certificate from Danfoss which allows the 5 year warranty to be applied. (so check that?)
    If he has 100% in his pocket then the installation could be less then perfect.

    So go find a proper installer.


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    #3
    Gunslinger99
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Gunslinger99


    Suppliers will try to limit their risk by not allowing installers to have very big credit limits so i don't think its too unusual. If you are worried contact the suppliers directly and talk to them.


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    #4
    PeteHeat
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭PeteHeat


    Business in Ireland has changed a lot in the past few years.
    Irish banks by and large are not lending money to suppliers, they are not allowing tradesmen / installers overdraft facilities and where they do the charges are nothing short of extortion.

    The customer at all levels be it importer, retailer, installer must put the cash on the table to get the goods, this is happening even with inter company transactions.

    If you trust your installer then you work with his terms and conditions of trading, if you don't like those terms them I suggest you shop around, someone may be willing to take a chance on you as a consumer.

    Cash on delivery might be a fairer option / compromise but again everyone must be on board for that to work.

    I know the above reads in a callous way, it is not intended to offend, it is an accurate description of how business is done in Ireland today, I could sugar coat it but that's best left to politicians.
    .


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    #5
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    PeteHeat wrote: »
    Business in Ireland has changed a lot in the past few years.
    Irish banks by and large are not lending money to suppliers, they are not allowing tradesmen / installers overdraft facilities and where they do the charges are nothing short of extortion.

    The customer at all levels be it importer, retailer, installer must put the cash on the table to get the goods, this is happening even with inter company transactions.

    If you trust your installer then you work with his terms and conditions of trading, if you don't like those terms them I suggest you shop around, someone may be willing to take a chance on you as a consumer.

    Cash on delivery might be a fairer option / compromise but again everyone must be on board for that to work.

    I know the above reads in a callous way, it is not intended to offend, it is an accurate description of how business is done in Ireland today, I could sugar coat it but that's best left to politicians.
    .

    The installer I trust; but he's a 3rd party in this and if the supplier has a problem I'm basically out of pocket. The window companies had bank guarantee's to ensure money was safe so I might look for the same here.


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    #6
    Gunslinger99
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Gunslinger99


    Apologies Curious George i assumed you meant cash on delivery. I wouldn't advise handing any money over until the unit is in your possession


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    #7
    Curious Geroge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,013 ✭✭✭Curious Geroge


    Gunslinger99 wrote: »
    Apologies Curious George i assumed you meant cash on delivery. I wouldn't advise handing any money over until the unit is in your possession

    No; Its all upfront. On Delivery is what I will request. If not, I'm afriad that its probably going to be a no go.


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    #8
    Gunslinger99
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭Gunslinger99


    I think thats a fair compromise CG good luck with the build


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    #9
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,075 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    I was asked to pay some up front, more of a deposit really to ensure that I didnt change my mind after they had ordered it from their supplier.... similar story for windows.... had to pay some upfront but it was much less than 50% so asking for 100% upfront seems either cheeky or dodgy to me.

    If he needs 100% he obviously doesnt have any credit terms with Danfoss and doesnt have the cashflow to support it. That's a worry regardless of whether it works out or not.

    Taking it to the other extreme and only paying on delivery might be difficult to get from any supplier as all the risk is on their side then. I'd say negotiate a reasonable deposit and the rest on delivery or, as you said, get a bank guarantee.


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    #10
    freddyuk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,110 ✭✭✭freddyuk


    Gunslinger99 wrote: »
    Suppliers will try to limit their risk by not allowing installers to have very big credit limits so i don't think its too unusual. If you are worried contact the suppliers directly and talk to them.

    You don't buy more than one heat pump at a time. A supplier will give you credit for one unit if you pass their credit checks. If installer wants 100% upfront they have bad credit record.
    I would charge upfront for a full heat loss survey because it is a lot of work and critical for installing the correct heat pump. So maybe €250 for that and deduct off the order. So have you got a full survey? Any sort of detailed installation plan and quote?
    If not find a decent installer.
    You may get a kit delivered and pay for it but what are you expecting it to do? Have you been told exactly what it is capable of and more importantly not capable of? I am interested in the project so may be good to combine the posts on this?


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    #11
    PeteHeat
    Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭PeteHeat


    freddyuk wrote: »
    You don't buy more than one heat pump at a time. A supplier will give you credit for one unit if you pass their credit checks. If installer wants 100% upfront they have bad credit record.

    As both a supplier and installer I find that assumption offensive to say the least.

    In 2008 I paid a manufacture €140,000.00 two weeks ahead of the due date, when I placed an order the following month I was asked for payment before the goods were released, the reason being Ireland was not secure my own credit record with the manufacturer was without question.
    .


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