Pine Martens and sheep!

DBB · 17-10-2014 3:48pm #1

Hi all,
A thread over on the Animals and Pets forum prompted me to ask you all here to relate any experience you might have about pine martens allegedly killing sheep.
Twice now I've heard or read of people saying that pine martens can and do kill adult sheep.
They say that the pine marten bites the sheep open at the neck and "draws off" or eats their blood.
But I'm finding it hard to believe!
First of all, because of the serious size discrepancy, why would a tiny carnivore kill prey that is tens of times heavier than himself? It would leave him vulnerable whilst eating it for starters because he can't drag it away to eat in safety, but would such a tiny fella really be able to kill a big, woolly sheep at all? Even if he wanted to?

They usually eat much smaller prey, stuff that's more size-appropriate, and I'm not aware that they have any vampire-like blood lust!
I'm open to having my doubts scuppered on this, but I'd really like some absolutely irrefutable evidence that anyone has... not just that they've seen scratch or bite marks on a sheep that *might* have been a pine marten!
I know, I know, I'm being demanding, but very much looking forward to what ye all have to say!:)

Kovu · 17-10-2014 4:00pm

I was just reading that thread!

I've never heard of anything like that happening. Mink were always the suspected prey that would drink the blood of an animal but again possible old wives tail. They get a savage blood lust though don't they?

There are loads of pine martin around me, even three young this year were brought out and I've never seen them attack anything bigger than a hare. Although AFAIK, pine martin will eat freshly dead carrion so if one was seen eating a recently deceased sheep perhaps that's where it all started.

But I would find it very hard to believe a shy, tree-dwelling, cat-sized creature could take down a sheep....

DBB · 17-10-2014 4:08pm

Kovu wrote: »

There are loads of pine martin around me, even three young this year were brought out and I've never seen them attack anything bigger than a hare. Although AFAIK, pine martin will eat freshly dead carrion so if one was seen eating a recently deceased sheep perhaps that's where it all started.

That is so lovely to have them around you... I've only seen them dead on the roads, much more so in recent years which, if I was to look for a silver lining, suggests that they're on the increase generally.
Having done a bit of googling, I see videos and talk of them eating carrion, so yes, my suspicion is that pine marten have been seen having a munch on an already-dead sheep, and were blamed for the death.
I've also found a forum where they tell of an old tale of how pine martens have a spike on their tail that they use to kill sheep :eek:

Kovu · 17-10-2014 4:16pm

Really?! Omg that's hilarious. I'm imagining something stingray-esque now running up the trees around here.

They're strangely quiet around here too, often see them outside our back door sniffing at cat food dishes. My father is releasing partridge next year though so just hope they don't get snapped up right away by them.

Cork boy 55 · 17-10-2014 4:20pm

People are confusing pine martins with Los Chupacabra
Which have sighted in Ireland in recent years see youtube

Connemara Farmer · 17-10-2014 4:45pm

Not heart of pine martens doing it, but we have none locally, have heard of mink doing it though.

http://www.mayonews.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7306&Itemid=9

http://issuu.com/connemaraview/docs/march_2010_connemara_view/25

DBB · 17-10-2014 5:44pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Not heart of pine martens doing it, but we have none locally, have heard of mink doing it though.

Thanks for the links

I did wonder if mink might take a lamb alright. Sounds really serious with the lady featured in those articles in Connemara, but I wonder has she actually seen the mink killing the lambs, or just come across the aftermath?
Again, there's always a bit of a doubt in my mind about what actually killed the sheep/lambs, and whether even the pesky mink actually did the deed, as opposed to getting caught eating the dead animal? I could see more than one mink taking down a bigger lamb, but a 35kg lamb? Do mink work in groups? That's a big animal to kill when you're as small as a lone mink!

foxylock · 17-10-2014 8:35pm

DBB wrote: »

Thanks for the links
I did wonder if mink might take a lamb alright. Sounds really serious with the lady featured in those articles in Connemara, but I wonder has she actually seen the mink killing the lambs, or just come across the aftermath?
Again, there's always a bit of a doubt in my mind about what actually killed the sheep/lambs, and whether even the pesky mink actually did the deed, as opposed to getting caught eating the dead animal? I could see more than one mink taking down a bigger lamb, but a 35kg lamb? Do mink work in groups? That's a big animal to kill when you're as small as a lone mink!

I can confirm that mink kill lambs, horrible creatures. One hunting a lamb one day came to within ten feet of me very brazen. 35kg lambs are much too big these lads take newborn and lambs up to a month old. We have pine martin here too but i have never seen them hunting lambs.

DBB · 17-10-2014 8:40pm

foxylock wrote: »

I can confirm that mink kill lambs, horrible creatures. One hunting a lamb one day came to within ten feet of me very brazen. 35kg lambs are much too big these lads take newborn and lambs up to a month old. We have pine martin here too but i have never seen them hunting lambs.

They are indeed brazen creatures. Interesting that you have seen it for yourself, thanks for that

I mentioned the 35kg thing because the lady in the articles quoted above said that minks had started on newborn lambs on her farms a few years ago, but now were taking lambs up to 35kg! I find that hard to believe, but having said that, if these tenacious little fellas were working in small groups I could see how they might overwhelm a rather large animal. I'm not sure whether they work together though.

TheBody · 17-10-2014 9:03pm

Neighbours around me are obsessed with the view that pine matens are killing their sheep and lambs.

Traps all over the place!

trixi2011 · 17-10-2014 9:22pm

know of A farm were minks were attacking dairy calves which were grazing ground around a lake. we were getting a load of calves with infecions on there left knee turned out the mink was attacking them when they went to drink from the lake. For some reason it always went for the left leg, these calves would have been over 50kgs at this time

DBB · 17-10-2014 9:29pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

we were getting a load of calves with infecions on there left knee turned out the mink was attacking them when they went to drink from the lake.

Did anybody see the mink attacking the calves?
I wouldn't suggest that if it was mink having a go at the calves that they were actually trying to take them down!

Limestone Cowboy · 17-10-2014 9:30pm

foxylock wrote: »

I can confirm that mink kill lambs, horrible creatures. One hunting a lamb one day came to within ten feet of me very brazen. 35kg lambs are much too big these lads take newborn and lambs up to a month old. We have pine martin here too but i have never seen them hunting lambs.

They are very brazen alright, was fishing for mackerel last year and had one stealing a few out of the bucket only a few feet away from me. Not one bit afraid of humans.

foxylock · 17-10-2014 10:23pm

No expert but i have only ever seen them hunting alone the thought of them working in packs doesn't bear thinking about. Have trapped a few over the years and they are tough critters pure muscle. However at the moment grey crows and ravens are our biggest tormentors.

jill_valentine · 17-10-2014 10:29pm

The picture painted is a little Monty Python isn't it?

foxylock · 17-10-2014 10:37pm

jill_valentine wrote: »

The picture painted is a little Monty Python isn't it?

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sure make pets of them so......

Birdnuts · 17-10-2014 10:40pm

I can't see Pine Martens being a problem for Sheep. I've certainly seen them around my place including the lambing fields but never heard of them bothering sheep or lambs for that matter. I suppose anythings possible in unusual circumstances but it must be a very rare event if it happens at all. They are a well studied species in any case both here and abroad and their habits are well known. Important to note too that they are protected.I have heard of farmers having problems with mink and very small lambs which Con referred to in his links. Much more of a menace though to poultry farmers and wild ground nesting birds . I trap them on my own place as they are a non-native species(escaped from fur farms in the 60's) which organisations like the NARGC, NPWS etc. are working hard to eliminate

Zoo4m8 · 18-10-2014 6:40am

If I could add to your post...escaped and RELEASED from fur farms, a lot of the time by animal rights groups, not only in the sixties but into the eighties if my memory serves, but open to correction..