ATH Semi Final 1 : Garseys vs Bounty Hunter

beakerjoe

The First Semi Final is upon us, and its Gar to the seys versus PW boards man who like his coconut chocolate bars in the Bounty Hunter. Have at it lads!



Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Semi Final Question 1 : Many Great talents over the years have been never able to grab the brass ring and become a world champion. Who in your opinion was the greatest ever wrestler not to be a world champion in WWF/WCW/WWE. Only small catch is the person you pick had to have a decent run with the company.


In the rebuttal you can say why your answer is better than your opponents.

The final is almost in sight lads, good luck

Bounty Hunter

beakerjoe wrote: »

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Semi Final Question 1 : Many Great talents over the years have been never able to grab the brass ring and become a world champion. Who in your opinion was the greatest ever wrestler not to be a world champion in WWF/WCW/WWE. Only small catch is the person you pick had to have a decent run with the company.

Well with this one there are a number of options but only one of them does not suffer from one of a number of issues. For example some are not actually the best wrestler as the question suggests and are instead an awesome character and or the best talkers to have never won the big one. Meanwhile others were perhaps somewhat limited in terms of the type of champ they could be and a potentially limited champion is not someone who should be considered the greatest ever not to be champ. Why would someone fall into this category? Well if they were only very good as either a face or a heel for example or someone who perhaps could not be trusted buy th guys in the back.

I haven't named any names and won't until my opponent makes his choice but you know the people im referring to. Having said that ill be honest most of them would have been good and potentially even great champs but none of them would have been ideal, wait no not ideal (you know where I'm going with this) they wouldn't have been Perfect

unlike this man:

quite simply Curt Henning was Perfect and how he never got pushed to the moon and given the world title I'll never know.

He had the Gimmick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ixzEcIY8SI

He had the in ring ability

Bret vs Perfect with JR, Heenan & Macho Man on commentary Ohhh Yeahh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekt-m1LNWIM

He could sell a move like nobody else (Dolph Ziggler wishes he was this guy)

He was one of the greatest wrestlers in the history of the business and had a personality that was just bigger than life. He was an awesome technical wrester, cut killer promos, and was just one of those guys that “had it” in every possible way. He was an arrogant, cocky guy but you just couldn’t help but like him. I thought that he was much more effective as a heel personally, but he was very much over with the fans during his time as a face.

Garseys

Really sorry for the delay guys:

A Perfect start by my opponent but enough is enough, and it's time for a change...

Many Great talents over the years have been never able to grab the brass ring and become a world champion. Who in your opinion was the greatest ever wrestler not to be a world champion in WWF/WCW/WWE.

I'm gonna do the same as my opponent and not go for the great talkers (e.g. Piper) or the workhorses who would have stagnated when given the challenge to go outside their comfort zone (Regal). I'm going for a man who I firmly believe should have been WWF Champion.

I choose the Black Hart Owen Hart

Owen who pretty much was in his brothers shadow for a lot of his career never really got his full dues until his untimely passing. The man was an excellent in ring competitor, had tonnes of charisma and should have held the title as least once during his long run in the WWF.

Owen is a wrestler who I feel WWE should struck while the iron was hot. He may not have been Perfect but he definitely was not a Nugget!

Bounty Hunter

Forgive me o great Pro Wrestling diety for what I am about to do as I know it is almost taboo within the IWC but yes I am going to speak ill of Owen Hart and as the question... Is Owen Hart over rated?


don't get me wrong I think Owen was great, someone with the potential to go all the way but perhaps that was all it was at the time potential and due to his death he has become more than he was. I mean I dont think the WWE had plans to give him the belt after all he had not been in the main event picture since December 1997 and since then had slowly started to move down the card, first as part of the nation of domination and then teaming with Double J before eventually re-starting his blue Blazer gimmick. It seemed to me at least that he was if anything moving further and further away from the main event scene and down the card at the time of his death.

Now for a few comparisons between your choice and my choice.

Firstly mine (Mr Perfect) was a World Champion - AWA World champion having defeated the legendary Nick Bockwinkel for the belt. He was well capable of carrying a main event title. Owen was not

Owen
Billed height 5 ft 10 in (1.78 m)
Billed weight 229 lb (104 kg)

Perfect

Billed height 6 ft 3 in (1.91 m)
Billed weight 250 lb (110 kg)


Now im not saying to be a good champion you have to be big but this just shows that Perfect once again was perfect he ticks all the boxes that the WWE generally looked for in a champion one of which was size especially back then.

Not only does perfect have the physical advantage over Owen here but he also was better on the Mic

actually before I even compare these two I think I should go into more detail on why my guy really should have been an even bigger deal than he was.

He dropped his AWA world title (Jerry Lawlor was the next champ) so he could go to the WWF and then debuted with the Awesome Mr Perfect Gimmick, where they aired the classic promos of his sporting perfection. He then had a great undefeated streakIn the time before Goldberg and other streaks like that which lasted over a year and included wins against people like The Blue Blazer and big brother Bret often (as in the case of Bret) through nefarious means. He was on a major role and then started feuding with Hulk Hogan which lead to the Royal Rumble where he got the perfect draw at no.30 only to be eliminated by the winner and then champion Hulk Hogan... why in gods name Hogan needed to win that match or why it didn't lead to him vs Hogan at Wrestlemania especially as they were still pushing Hennigs Perfect record after the Rumble.

I really don't think that Owen ever had such momentum, ot was he was ever in such a great position nor had he ever been pushed that strongly

He may not have been Perfect but he definitely was not a Nugget!

Incase you (the reader not my opponent) don't know this is in relation to

wiki wrote:

Shawn Michaels referring to Owen as a nugget of feces in a toilet bowl, and no matter how many times Michaels flushed, it kept sticking around and he was unable to get rid of it. "Nugget" became a derisive term that followed Hart for the rest of his career.

having said that I do like how you point out that he was not perfect, obviously you may just be referring to my guys name but really its hard to be Perfect but my guy was in more than just name. He was essentially the total package. The look, The Gimmick, The Entrance music, The mic skills, The in ring ability.... he had it all

Garseys

The only thing I'll say is regardless of his position on the roster, wasn't an indication of how good Owen was. Whether he was curtain jerking or main eventing the guy was damn good.

I get what you're saying about the right look for champ and I agree Perfect had that look of a main eventer but I fail to see how Owen didn't equally have that look as he only differed slightly in weight and height.

Also regardless of whether Owen got the same push as Perfect or not, He was ridiculously talented to remain on the undercard.

Bounty Hunter

Garseys wrote: »

The only thing I'll say is regardless of his position on the roster, wasn't an indication of how good Owen was. Whether he was curtain jerking or main eventing the guy was damn good.

I get what you're saying about the right look for champ and I agree Perfect had that look of a main eventer but I fail to see how Owen didn't equally have that look as he only differed slightly in weight and height.

Also regardless of whether Owen got the same push as Perfect or not, He was ridiculously talented to remain on the undercard.

A rebuttal where (yes you defended your guy but) you said nothing to argue against my choice... perhaps that in itself is a great argument for Curt Hennig here.

You also saying that you would have picked him if given the chance in the discussion thread has a similar effect.

To be honest Owen was as you say ridiculously talented, he was one of the best to never be a world champ but Hennig was the best.

He was simply....Perfect for this question