The Taper (marathons)

Clearlier

How do you do yours?

3 weeks is often suggested. Many runners that I know do well off 2. Steve Way accidentally discovered that 1 week leaves him at his peak.

Does it depend on your body type/mileage/rate of recovery/mental state/all of the above/something else?

I've run two, coached one person to a few and observed many others and I've yet to find anyone who does best off a 3 week taper - I just think that it's too long. A 2 week taper of roughly 75% - 50% + race is my starting point when advising others. You do want to get to the line feeling fresh though so if they're mentally exhausted I may advise that they back off a bit more within that 2 week time frame.

I suspect that lower time spent running needs less of a taper (N.B. I use time rather than miles here rather than low mileage because someone who does 50 miles a week in 10 hours is training just as hard as someone doing 100 miles a week in 10 hours).
I also think that true slow twitch runners (like Steve) recover more quickly and need less of a taper than guys with a greater number of fast twitch fibres.

The other big thing to look out for is how quickly you recover during training. If you're the kind of runner who can handle three sessions a week or do a fast long run and be ready for a big session two days later then you obviously recover well and would probably do best with a short taper and vice versa.

Krusty_Clown

My mileage has been decreasing from 5 weeks out, so does that mean that I'm following a 5 week taper? Not necessarily. Without wanting to get too zen-like, for me, a taper is more of a state of mind; a mental recognition that you are easing off, rather than a physical halt to proceedings. My final 6 weeks look like this:

Week 6: 110 miles
Week 5: 100 miles
Week 4: 90 miles
Week 3: 80 miles
Week 2: 66 miles
Week 1: 31 miles + marathon

From weeks 5-3, the amount of quality is increasing, if anything. It is only in weeks 2 and 1 that both volume and the amount of quality work is decreasing. So I guess this is closest to a 2 week taper. With regard to your 75%/50% suggestion, you'd have me doing 82 miles 2 weeks out, and 55 miles + marathon the week of the race (81 miles). I've never been shy of mileage, but it looks a little high to me. I'd be averaging just under 9 miles per day to cover the 55 miles in 6 days before the race, so I'm not sure I'd get the necessary rest benefits.

sideswipe

I like to think of a 3 week taper as 1 recovery week followed by a 2 week taper.
What I mean by that is I always feel I need to ease off (but not too much) after my peak milage week, which is 3 weeks out, without going into full on taper mode.

Krusty_Clown

Here's the final week by the way (JD Plan A):
7 Days out: 1.5 Hours E (13 miles)
6 Days out: 1 hour E + strides (8 miles)
5 Days out: 2ME + (4x1200m @T) + 2 ME
4 Days out: 40-50 mins E + strides (7 miles)
3 Days out: 30 mins E + strides (4 miles)
2 Days out: 0-30 mins E (4 miles)
1 Days out: 30 mins E (4 miles)
0 Days out: Race

Any thoughts on this as a final week?

Clearlier

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Here's the final week by the way (JD Plan A):
7 Days out: 1.5 Hours E (13 miles)
6 Days out: 1 hour E + strides (8 miles)
5 Days out: 2ME + (4x1200m @T) + 2 ME
4 Days out: 40-50 mins E + strides (7 miles)
3 Days out: 30 mins E + strides (4 miles)
2 Days out: 0-30 mins E (4 miles)
1 Days out: 30 mins E (4 miles)
0 Days out: Race

Any thoughts on this as a final week?

I like that it's got some faster than race pace running as well as strides both of which I think helps with marathon pace feeling easy at the start. The volume obviously depends on what's gone on for the previous weeks which IIRC correctly would be about 35% of max + race for you?

Your earlier point about 75% - 50% + being a little caught my attention. I was thinking more in terms of average than peak mileage but I don't think that I've thought that through enough. Also I wonder if it might be a higher % for low mileage runners compared to higher ones?

Krusty_Clown

Clearlier wrote: »

Your earlier point about 75% - 50% + being a little caught my attention. I was thinking more in terms of average than peak mileage but I don't think that I've thought that through enough. Also I wonder if it might be a higher % for low mileage runners compared to higher ones? I like that it's got some faster than race pace running as well as strides both of which I think helps with marathon pace feeling easy at the start. The volume obviously depends on what's gone on for the previous weeks which IIRC correctly would be about 35% of max + race for you?

If you disregard the marathon, then yep, it would be as low as 28% of peak mileage. I can't see any reason to disregard the marathon though, when calculating the mileage for the final week. With the marathon, it's 51% of peak mileage. Based on average weekly mileage (~88 miles), it'd be closer to 35% (or 64% including marathon).

The JD plan (for the final week) is based on running time, rather than distance, so it scales for the pace of the runner (probably, but not absolutely, for the mileage of the runner too). I'm usually pretty guilty about doing too much, so I'll stick with the plan this time around as best I can and report back in two weeks.

Itziger

I'm currently in the second last week and have been (kinda) following the 2Q 18 week Daniels plan. He has this week down as 80% of peak mileage which I personally think is too much for the second last. I should really be doing 56 miles but I won't be doing that. Partly, I must admit, because I'm nursing a slightly painful hip which acts up when I do long and/or fast - doesn't really augur well for the 26th in Frankfurt!

But I'm not sure I'd be doing 80% even if I was in great form. I see his A plan has/had 60% of peak mileage, which seems more acceptable. So far this week I've done 6,7 and 5 miles. Will do a couple of slightly longer runs and after Sunday when I'll do 10 or 12, I'll do little in last week.

It does seem to be a case of finding what works for you in taper, even more so than most other aspects of training.

Krusty_Clown

Itziger wrote: »

I'm currently in the second last week and have been (kinda) following the 2Q 18 week Daniels plan. He has this week down as 80% of peak mileage which I personally think is too much for the second last. I should really be doing 56 miles but I won't be doing that. Partly, I must admit, because I'm nursing a slightly painful hip which acts up when I do long and/or fast - doesn't really augur well for the 26th in Frankfurt!

But I'm not sure I'd be doing 80% even if I was in great form. I see his A plan has/had 60% of peak mileage, which seems more acceptable. So far this week I've done 6,7 and 5 miles. Will do a couple of slightly longer runs and after Sunday when I'll do 10 or 12, I'll do little in last week.

It does seem to be a case of finding what works for you in taper, even more so than most other aspects of training.

Will be interesting to hear how the 2Q plan works out for you. Pity (for us! but good for you!) that you didn't follow the taper structure. Wouldn't like to be running 80% of max this week (just shy of 90 miles). He's definitely changed his taper strategy and is leaning on the heavier side of things. On higher mileage (86-100) the % of peak for the final 5 weeks is: 80%/90%/80%/70%/52 miles

Itziger

Pity (for us! but good for you!) that you didn't follow the taper structure.

Indeed. Deepest apologies to all for not carrying out my Guinea Pig duties to the letter